Benjamin is wrong about the war in GAZA and a guide for defeating good debaters

Author: WyIted

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I have a new video up where I take Benjamin's arguments apart.  He argues that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and here are the arguments against that position. https://youtu.be/EL3VX3K6Zq0

By examining how I take apart his arguments you can likely improve your own debating skills.

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@David
@Benjamin
take a look. I continued to what david would have argued had he not dropped out.
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@Barney
I meant to say defeat good debaters not behaviors.
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@WyIted
Weird you would say I "refused" to debate you because I "know" that you are correct when accepting the debate with David literally proves I am not afraid to debate the topic.

1. A few years back I was pro-Israel and read pro-israel books like "The Case for Israel by Alan M. Dershowitz" so I have in fact looked at the conflict from both sides. 

2. I do condemn the warcrimes of Hamas. Just because I didn't go out of my way to critique them in the debate for obvious reasons doesn't mean I support them.  

3. Saying I have emotional investment is really weird since I live in Norway and there is no information available on the internet to suggest that I have any emotional investment. 

4. You seem to have a really weird standard where you expect every single piece of evidence to directly prove the resolution even without the surrounding context.
  • Thats not really how evidence works nor is that how you construct good arguments. If you want I can explain why in great detail.
5. Even if we accept your very bold claim that my sources and arguments are mostly garbage, you still needed a 50 minute video to refute my opening argument.
  • So saying your video shows how to counter my case and win the debate is not really true even if you have the correct opinions and I have the wrong ones. 
  • And it definitely is not a general guide on how you can destroy better debate opponents. Not that I ever claimed to be better than David anyways.
But yeah, we can have a talk about the arguments and sources on discord if you want.
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@Benjamin
I am certain I blabber on like an idiot and that video can be condensed to 10k words. 
WyIted
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I was saying you were better than most people not David, but I don't think he is much better than you TBh.
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I am saying you have emotional investment based on the fact your arguments are usually so good that I doubt my own deeply hekd beliefs. 
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By the way if you don't want to have a conversation on discord I would still like to hear your in-depth takedowns of my R2 and R3.
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@Benjamin
I will take a look at those rounds in a bit but I am open to a conversation but would want it recorded so I can use it to get more attention hopefully for the benefit of the site.  
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@WyIted
your arguments are usually so good that I doubt my own deeply hekd beliefs. 
  • Do you have some specific examples of good arguments or debates I had that challenged you?
  • What makes my arguments in that specific debate so much worse in your eyes than those ones?

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@Benjamin
I read round 2 and 3. You already won at that point but it doesn't matter however I do think con can concede war crimes excessive civilian casualties and concede persecution of Palestinians and still win. I dont agree with those things but I think proving genocide here is impossible Against a good debater. You should have jewed the resolution down to war crimes. David has the opposite bias as you and would have bit
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@Benjamin
Do you have some specific examples of good arguments or debates I had that challenged you?
No. Sorry I actually lied here. My purpose was to praise you for your skill to disarm you a bit. My bad. Actually reading through your stuff I think the debate with David was your best debate performance and actually feel a bit guilty for attacking a great effort from you. 
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So basically your verdict is that I am wrong. Okay, I can live with that. Even if Israel is not commitng a genocide in the full technical meaning of the word, they are still damn close.
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@Benjamin
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with being wrong. I am wrong in nearly every debate I do 
RationalMadman
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I was considering it a justified retaliation at first but rn it's going on 6 months of sheer terror, many war crimes tomthe living not just dead, they can't sleep a good night's sleep can't get any sanity or medication, underfed under everything. So whether it's called genocide or psychopathic terror idc the semantics.
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@RationalMadman
If they've got a plan they need to see it through or lose face.

Same with Russia in Ukraine.


Whereas sometimes it's easy just to pack up and come home and change the subject, like Afghanistan or Iraq for example.
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@zedvictor4
their plan seems to be to terrorise Gaza, that's all I see happening.
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@RationalMadman
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This is essentially similar to seiging a walled city. I have studied Julius Caesar a bit and this is the modern equivalent to attacking a walled city. First you surround it and starve it out. Often this has the habit of turning the people against the soldiers and calling the soldiers cowardly for not protecting them, this forces the soldiers to make premature and unnecessarily aggressive moves. 

Once the walled city is properly weakened you make some tactical strikes over and over. You are surrounding a walled city and cutting them off from the world so the time is on your side. Once they are severely weakened, once all the tunnels are collapsed in, then you get a ground invasion and anyone who is found to be in HAMAs are given the modern day equivalent to Nuremburg trials and you will see Israel occupy Gaza in a similar way to how the United States Occupied afghanistan until the recent withdrawal. I believe you'll also see vast improvements in their society with the occupiers switching from Hamas to Israel. more prosperity and peace and a puppet government installed with western values
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"Occupation army, there is not a single man among you,
You became men by confronting children and bombing neighborhoods,
Your way, occupation, is to kill and uproot children,
You cannot even fight, your actions are criminal"

WyIted
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How are you supposed to avoid confronting children when these people marry 12 year olds and have 10 kids with them for the sole purpose of raising child soldiers
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@RationalMadman
That is just popular anti-Jewish media propaganda. (Which conveniently strives to make you forget that the current situation was inspired by Palestinian terror).


I would suggest that the plan is bigger than that.


Perhaps we should be more interested with who promotes the aforementioned propaganda so successfully.

And why?



Hmmmmmm.

I must be careful or I will turn into David Icke.
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@WyIted
See above.
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@zedvictor4
That is just popular anti-Jewish media propaganda. (Which conveniently strives to make you forget that the current situation was inspired by Palestinian terror).


I would suggest that the plan is bigger than that.
No it isn't. It's an analysis of what they've actually done over 5-6 months and how they're operating to innocent Gazans. I recommend looking into it before talking. I have read and understood both sides. What the IDF is doing in Gaza right now is terrorism.
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@zedvictor4
I see your response and the part I understand I agree with. The following sentence I have no ideal what you are alluding to

Perhaps we should be more interested with who promotes the aforementioned propaganda so successfully.

And why?

I know you mention David Icke after that who is perceived to be antisemitic by many so part of me thinks you are claiming some Jewish anti Jewish conspiracy.
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@RationalMadman
Which is exactly what I am talking about. Though I see a bigger picture. 

Nonetheless, you do not wish to consider what triggered the past 5-6 months.

Why?

Because popular culture and media doesn't want you to consider it.

Why?
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@zedvictor4
And you don't want to consider what triggered that.

I'd like you to imagine being alive, not killed for 6 months not getting a single night of good sleep or day of proper food and drink, surrounded by terror. Then maybe you'll realise the issue.
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@zedvictor4
Because popular culture and media doesn't want you to consider it.

Why?
Could you explain why. You obviously have thoughts on why and I am sure it would be interesting to know
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@RationalMadman
Swept along by media propaganda,

Still ignoring the facts RM.

Which is seemingly what we are meant to do.

Though for sure, do we actually know which fact came first.

Certainly didn't occur in the last 6 months.
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@WyIted
Were modern Palestinian Militants so stupid, as not to realise the dire consequences of their actions.

Well let's rephrase that, because moronic foot soldiers are easily manipulated.

Always have been.


Did those that ordered Palestinian Militants, not realise the dire consequences of those orders.

And of course, Israeli foot soldiers were happy to reciprocate, when ordered.


Is it all just an inevitably consequence of human programming?


I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, and I can always propose variable explanations for human behaviour.

So I fly no flags, and I am still content to run with the notion that we are all as bad as one another.

Though it does makes one wonder.
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@zedvictor4
This is not some mystery. We already know that Iran organized and ordered Hamas to attack and knew Israel would have to respond and be distracted by the situation. If you follow Iran's moves during the distraction than you can clearly tell why it has happened. There is some targeted military action by the United States to interrupt what Iran was planning so the proxy war was largely ineffective, but i don't think anyone is under the impression that this is not a proxy war by Iran.