"Free Mind of Ideas" Education System - Better alternative to "Competition of ideas"

Author: Best.Korea

Posts

Total: 61
Topic's author
#1
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Competition of ideas is based on each person who comes up with an idea has to defend it, convince others and even endure attacks on his idea and even attacks on his reputation.

This causes society to be divided in two groups:
1. Those who succeed in defending their ideas
2. Those who fail in defending their ideas

Group 2 is usually much larger, and consists mostly of people who no longer give ideas.

Person can either give an idea or receive an idea, and for society, it is better that society produces as much ideas as possible.

However, due to "competition of ideas", this is not possible, as such system encourages people to receive ideas and discourages them to give ideas.

This is especially so in young children.

Parents, in their great delusion, encourage kids to receive ideas, but dont encourage kids to give ideas, because parents are led by false belief that since kids wont come up with good ideas, then that it is better they dont come up with any ideas at all.

However, great thinkers are not those who received ideas, but those who gave ideas.

Thus, giving ideas is crucial in being a great thinker, or in being a thinker at all, and developing such skill as soon as possible is the best.

Thus, children should be most encouraged to give ideas, to become producers of ideas, and not just to receieve ideas.

This is only possible in "Free Mind of Ideas" system, where people are constantly encouraged and expected to come up with an idea, even if that idea is bad. Thus, everyone is told to suggest as much ideas as possible.

In competition of ideas, people try to impose their ideas on others and try to discourage others from coming up with a different idea by attacking them once they do.

However, in free mind of ideas, the goal is not so much to just promote your idea, but that every day, you encourage all others to give ideas and suggestions as well.

This puts others in constant need to produce ideas, as they are always asked to give ideas or suggestions.

Thus, parents who just raise their kid to receive ideas will likely not raise a great thinker, or a thinker at all.

But parents who constantly encourage their kid to think and produce new ideas and suggestions will raise great thinkers, since the quality of all great thinkers is that they produce new ideas and suggestions, that they use their own thinking.
#2
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
I would agree with most of what you are saying but fail to see the significance of it from a societal perspective. Since the industrial revolutions, especially the second, education systems in occidental cultures have been focused on the suppression of ideas in favor of materialism.
Topic's author
#3
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
education systems in occidental cultures have been focused on the suppression of ideas in favor of materialism.
Sadly for materialism, ideas are the ones which shape the world, so yes, I am afraid that society without ideas wont get far.

I know that Marx tried to have it backwards, that material world creates ideas, but really, ideas create ideas, and if you want to advance society, you need an idea and not just job and food.

The utility of the learning system which I am suggesting is quite simple: greatest number of ideas can only be achieved by greatest number of thinkers and producers of ideas. So really, any system which reduces number of thinkers is backwards in terms of creating ideas.
#4
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,763
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RaymondSheen
suppression of ideas in favor of materialism
do materialists really have no ideas ?
#5
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@3RU7AL
do materialists really have no ideas ?
Of course they do! Their idea is to destroy ideas. I mean, isn't that obvious? The problem with ideology is that it becomes stagnant and self destructive. It doesn't have to be that way, it just is. So, well, I don't think people tend to follow links but they don't read either. What should I do? I'll post something I could link to on my own forum and at the reader's discretion. 

On second thought, better link. I have two. Tough reads, though. Semmelweis Reflex and Devil Bill and The Rattlesnake King.

Topic's author
#6
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
Their idea is to destroy ideas.
Okay, thats a stupid idea, so no wonder they never achieved anything significant, as those who achieve something significant are usually those who attacked with ideas and not without ideas.

#7
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,763
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RaymondSheen
Of course they do! Their idea is to destroy ideas.
so, there are no atheist engineers or inventors ?
#8
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 13,763
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@RaymondSheen
The problem with ideology is that it becomes stagnant and self destructive.
sounds like you're describing religion
#9
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Okay, thats a stupid idea, so no wonder they never achieved anything significant, as those who achieve something significant are usually those who attacked with ideas and not without ideas.
Fucking hell! A stupid idea? It IS the idea. It's your idea. You constantly spout it here, do you not? Achieve something? Define something. Hell, define achieve! 

I have an idea. Let's dig this stuff up out the ground and use it to power - everything. To make it, to run it, etc. Good idea! Now, who started the green movement, recycling and all of that bullshit that - apparently - wants to crush that idea? The industry that thought the idea up and use it everyday. 

You think on the surface. Your ideas are used against you. Ideas within ideas within ideas. 

Robert. Robert Zimmerman. 

God don't make no promises that he don't keep
You got some big dreams, baby
But in order to dream you gotta still be asleep
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
Counterfeit philosophies have polluted all of your thoughts
Karl Marx has got ya by the throat
And Henry Kissinger's got you tied up in knots
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
You got innocent men in jail, insane asylums are filled
You got unrighteous doctors
Dealing drugs that'll never cure your ills
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
You got men who can't hold their peace
Women who can't control their tongues
The rich seduce the poor and the old are seduced by the young
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
Strengthen the things that remain?
Adulterers in churches and pornography in the schools
You got gangsters in power and lawbreakers making rules
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
Spiritual advisors and gurus to guide your every move
Instant inner peace and every step you take has got to be approved
When you gonna wake up
Said when you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
Do you ever wonder just what God requires?
You think he's just an errand boy to satisfy your wandering desires
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?
You can't take it with you and you know it's too worthless to be sold
They tell you time is money
As if your life was worth its weight in gold
There's a man on a cross and he been crucified for you
Believe in his power, that's about all you got to do
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
When you gonna wake up
And strengthen the things that remain?

Topic's author
#10
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
Hell, define achieve! 
People who actually achieve things dont need to define that. It could only be unclear to you if you want to make equal someone's achievement to your lack of, but really, people who achieve greatness already know that they are great, and clearly above those who dont achieve anything, as lack of achievement by itself is a boring life, in addition to being lack of success. Really, I only care about success and if you dont want to succeed, thats your choice, and its a poor choice also when you try to bring others down with you on the path of insignificance.
#11
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@3RU7AL
sounds like you're describing religion
Same thing. 

so, there are no atheist engineers or inventors ?
Well, of course there are, your point please? Invent a car that runs without oil. Invent a cure for disease. See where that gets you in an "oilagarchy" or sick society. We're talking big business. That takes ideas. Ideas outlive themselves. Ideas - JD Rockefeller said it - competition is sin. He funded the American Cancer Society to hush the fact that petrol-based pharmaceuticals caused cancer. That's a good idea, isn't it?  

#12
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
People who actually achieve things dont need to define that.
Fortunately for them. [makes a rude gesture simulating masturbation].

It could only be unclear to you if you want to make equal someone's achievement to your lack of, but really, people who achieve greatness already know that they are great, and clearly above those who dont achieve anything, as lack of achievement by itself is a boring life, in addition to being lack of success. 
[Sighs] People who achieve greatness have the sense to know better. Suicide of ideas. Achievement is temporal. Cyclical. Obsolete. Today's idea doesn't glorify the great thinkers it replaces them. The great thinker doesn't look back or gaze longedly in a mirror seeking the adulation of small minded subjects. He forges every stream, climbs every mountain. [Laughs at his own silliness] 

What was I saying? What was the question? 

Oh, yeah. People who strut around with status symbols aren't real. Your ideology is as fake as your persona. Your avatar. I don't care about that shit. The most interesting thing about your avatar is how boring and stupid it is. But still, that is interesting in some sense. I've seen many earthworms slithering across the superhighway of misinformation, the world wide wasteland, but you in that regard, have some pretty interesting ideas. Like a museum. All interesting and fake. 

C'mon, man, snap out of it!

Topic's author
#13
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
Suicide of ideas
If you think that its better not to have ideas, then you have already failed, since the path towards goal is built by ideas, unless your goal is something insignificant like mere existence like a common rock, but really, people who have great goals have already left you behind, and you are trying to make others fall with you. Sure, you dont need ideas, but significant people do, so please step back and let the significant people run the world as "No ideas" is not a good way to achieve anything other than death of the brain, so if thats your goal, then really, just dont even think anymore. Just stare at the wall while the rest of us make achievements.
#14
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
If you think that its better not to have ideas, then you have already failed
Failing is the key to success.  I didn't say it was "better" (subjective term) not to have ideas, I said new ideas make old ideas obsolete so the process of advancement isn't, ideally, stagnant. It's continuance. Good ideas are formed to support old ideas, bad ideas are speculated upon by the subjects resulting in the balance of the quixotic (idealistic to an impractical degree) and mundane (irreligious). The consequence is that the great thinkers have to devise ideas to suppress the new ones to keep their old ones profitable. Your OP was is a tightrope. A balancing act. 

 since the path towards goal is built by ideas, unless your goal is something insignificant like mere existence like a common rock
[Grunts like a sigh repeated] Without existence your goal is surreal. A common rock? Like a diamond? Think for yourself. Humble yourself. Accept your ignorance. Frank Herbert paraphrased: "seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find liberation." "Show me someone for reform and I'll show someone with a headful of sick ideas."  Read Dune, kiddo. All of them. 

You sound like someone pretending to be rich. The real rich people don't do that. If you can't be your honest self, you sure as hell ought to do well marketing regurgitated nonsense. That is education. Indoctrination. 



Topic's author
#15
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
I didn't say it was "better" (subjective term) not to have ideas
Well, when you make up your mind about what you want to say, come back here. So far all you said was some random rambling about how ideas are useless, how you dont know the definition of "achieve", how ideas commit suicide, how ideas replace their owners... So yeah, you obviously have no point in your arbitrary rambling, and honestly, I like listening to drunk people talk for some time, but you obviously forget what you were arguing for a comment ago, so its not that fun. You can mock actual achievements all you want, but remember that what makes successful people different from you is that they can be you if they wanted to, they just dont want to.
#16
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
My mind was made up long before I got here, your intepretation was false. You're doing that logical falacy. Making my argument something it isn't to suit your counter. Projecting. My advise is to stop the personalization to further your argument for the mere sake of an ideologue. For example, what makes successful people is a stupid remark. We're both in the same sunken ship of fools here and the really successful people aren't wasting time mucking about it with us. Your point is moot at best, if not unsophisticated and hypocritical. 

Ideas are a good thing and like all good things are neglected and abused. Money, religion, government, love, art, etc. Also like all things there are good and bad.  
Topic's author
#17
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@RaymondSheen
You're doing that logical falacy.
No, what really happens is that you cant make up your mind so I really dont have much to say to you who wants to have an insignificant life of a rock. Really, the reason you are insignificant is because you refuse to conquer. Success doesnt come by sitting and doing nothing, but by attacking and fighting. Its too bad that you lost your fighting spirit. You see Imperial Japan nuked and you think "fighting is bad". No, fighting is good even if you lose, and peace is bad as it is both boring and non-challenging. Its the battle which drives progress.
#18
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@Best.Korea
No, what really happens is that you cant make up your mind so I really dont have much to say to you who wants to have an insignificant life of a rock. 
Ought-O folks, here it comes! You see it don't you. Looks like defeat to me, BK. I'm not even worth your time may be a practical defense but it isn't very productive or educational, is it? 

No, fighting is good even if you lose, and peace is bad as it is both boring and non-challenging. Its the battle which drives progress.
Well, by all means, continue. You do you, and I'll do me. It, uh, it takes two to tango. Didn't I say that before? 

#19
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,235
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea

OMG, is Raymond a Borg ?
Topic's author
#20
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@FLRW
OMG, is Raymond a Borg ?
Yes.
#21
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@FLRW
@Best.Korea
I am Hugh. 
#22
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 5,235
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@RaymondSheen

OMG, you're Hugh Laurie. I thought you were great in House.
#23
RaymondSheen
RaymondSheen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 233
1
2
6
RaymondSheen's avatar
RaymondSheen
1
2
6
-->
@FLRW
No, no, no, you silly goose. The ante borg Borg. I, Borg - Wikipedia 

By the way, I'm not into science fiction, Hugh is just something I stumbled upon one day while passing a television. I see interesting parallels in the nonsensical "Christian" misinterpretation of the Biblical I Am .



#24
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Best.Korea
Data in,

Data assessment,

Data assimilation, 

Storage or output of data variables.

Such are ideas.
#25
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,916
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Are you saying some ideas are worse than others? 

The false dichotomy doesn’t make sense to me.
Topic's author
#26
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Reece101
Are you saying some ideas are worse than others?
Yeah.

Topic's author
#27
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@zedvictor4
Data in,

Data assessment,

Data assimilation, 

Storage or output of data variables.

Such are ideas.
Thats a very good way to describe it.

I usually just go with "input, process, output" type of description, so I know that when I give people ideas, they are going to have to think about it.
#28
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,916
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Are you an exception to group 2? 


Topic's author
#29
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 274
Posts: 7,936
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Reece101
Well, I guess I often do give ideas.
#30
Reece101
Reece101's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 1,916
3
2
2
Reece101's avatar
Reece101
3
2
2
-->
@Best.Korea
Why the dichotomy between free minds of ideas and competition of ideas?