Trust the "Experts"

Author: ADreamOfLiberty

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#241
yachilviveyachali
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@Moozer325
I'm an outlier in the data. Vaccines are not 100% effective and I never claimed that they are. I am one data point, but when taken together with thousands of others, we see a clear trend emerge, the COVID vaccine makes it less likely for you to get the virus.
You are the data. You do not know what the scientists are saying or why they are saying it. Your body was infected with covid twice and you were infected again after being vaccinated. The body may be able to remember what it did when it was vaccinated for some months after the vaccine, but this will wane. Covid-19 vaccines can only instruct the body what to do if it has the virus, if it puts the instructions from vaccine and infection with virus together, if it does not forget it was vaccinated. The vaccine is theoretical. The virus is real.

I don't know why you continue to insist the vaccine prevents spread of covid. They have nothing to do with the spread of covid. 

The health authorities are no longer telling the youth to get vaccinated. Most people are not getting the vaccine every six months, or every year. What was the point in being injected with it? An analogy I can think of is an amateur looking to play sports who has only done a warm-up exercise and has not yet played his first game (vaccine), and a sportsman who has played the game and won the medal after the hard work, the real work (virus). 
#242
FLRW
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Why do religious people not want to take vaccines?  Oh, I think I get it.
#243
Greyparrot
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Jesus hates needles.
#244
MayCaesar
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@Lemming
@ADreamOfLiberty
@<<<MayCaesar>>>
It is obvious that lockdowns save lives when a massive deadly epidemic is abound
It is not obvious to me at all.

Quarantine is sometimes practically justified.

Everything that distinguishes "lockdown" from "quarantine" is exactly what makes "lockdown" utterly useless and therefore impossible to justify.

It's like amputating a limb beyond the point of septic infection. You lose a limb, and you still don't stop the infection. The worst of both worlds.


The only way for "lockdown" to be rational is if the goal was not saving lives but prolonging disruption and crisis.
The less close contact there is between people, the less deadly the epidemic. A lockdown is an extreme form of quarantine. In the most extreme case, where everyone is forced to spend a week without leaving their room, with carefully vetted government representatives bringing them food, the pandemic is guaranteed to die out - as long as one week is enough for one contaminated person to be completely recovered. It is impossible to reach it with a regular quarantine where a region is divided into quarantined and non-quarantined zones: in the quarantined zones the epidemic may thrive.

I do not find such authoritarian measures to be acceptable in any way, as I said, but I do not see the point in denying the obvious. Unless it is really not obvious to some people because their intuition differs from mine so drastically?



Ought not disease be seen a bit as punching someone in the face?
Sometimes with an 'axe, deadly as some diseases are?

Take of instance people with STDs, maybe they ought not be allowed to have sex with unknowing people?
. . .

I suppose I would be against regulating society and people whose medical status we did not know, (In current society)
But depending on 'how much of an STD problem there was, (Depending on how many lives it saved)
No-no-no. Punching someone in the face is done consciously, with the reasonable understanding as to what the consequences of such an action would be. Going out on the street and contaminating someone with something you did not know you had is an honest accident.

One could argue that the victim of such contamination deserves a proper compensation of damages, and I would not dispute this. But to treat it as a crime is unacceptable. Unless the person has serious reasons to suspect that he in particular has the virus, it cannot be the default assumption.
#245
fauxlaw
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@FLRW
Why do religious people not want to take vaccines?  Oh, I think I get it.
Why assume everyone in a group, particularly one you think is totally monochromatic [by that I mean you think they they all think the same] when, in reality, they are likely a full spectrum of thought, which is a more honest interpretation of what are, after all, individuals, some of whom actually do match your perception of "group."
Why not tell it like it is: "Some religious people bal-bla-bla" because otherwise, you don't get a bloody thing of what is real.
#246
FLRW
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@fauxlaw
North America was the only high-income region where people who follow a religion were much more likely to say they side with that belief system over science whenever disagreements arise. That finding was driven primarily by the US, where measles has been spreading among religious communities in states that have allowed religious vaccine exemptions.
#247
fauxlaw
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@FLRW
That finding was driven primarily by the US, where measles has been spreading among religious communities
Then, as I said, it is not a monochrome generality as you first maintained, is it? Some religious people, but not all. It isn't spreading in my area. That was my point.
#248
Greyparrot
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@fauxlaw
well said

Topic's author
#249
ADreamOfLiberty
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@MayCaesar
The less close contact there is between people, the less deadly the epidemic.
That is false.

It takes one viral particle, one infected cell, to become sick. The infection grows until it is stopped.

It is not a toxin, dosage doesn't matter, it's a boolean. Infected or not. At least with doubling rates sufficiently high to be characterized as a pandemic.

Therefore whatever the 'contact level' is, if it enough to transmit a single viable virus or bacterium (if it be that time), that is just as deadly as making out.


A lockdown is an extreme form of quarantine.
No it isn't, its a useless mockery of quarantine.

Lock downs have curfews, they have exceptions, they have irrational rules and placebo nonsense. Lockdowns did not work because that is what they were.

Quarantine works because it is based on rational comprehension of the phenomenon.



In the most extreme case, where everyone is forced to spend a week without leaving their room, with carefully vetted government representatives bringing them food, the pandemic is guaranteed to die out
That is simply not what "lockdown" means to anyone who used the word "lockdown" between 2019 and 2025.

Some uninformed people may have called what they heard about in China a "lockdown" but it bears no resemblance to what was done in the rest of the world.

Furthermore they failed to contain the virus, their entire population was exposed, every liberty they violated was for nothing.

Why? The virus doesn't care how draconian you are on some people, if it there is a single excepted carrier it will spread and it did.
#250
fauxlaw
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Your #249 was a superb rebuttal. I once commented in 2020, early fall that Fauci ought to have worn his mask like a diaper. It would fit as such and would catch more bullshyte than he was dishing by mouth.
#251
FLRW
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Some of the most important vaccines in history include the polio, MMR, and smallpox vaccines. 
#252
Greyparrot
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Some of the most important vaccines in history include the polio, MMR, and smallpox vaccines. 

Minkin hated worshippers of anything, including pharmaceuticals. he called them morons
#253
FLRW
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Hmmmmmmmm
#254
Greyparrot
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Munchkin hated worshippers of anything, including foreign sex workers. he called those demagogues morons
#255
FLRW
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You that Munchkin is a board game don't you?