Trust the "Experts"

Author: ADreamOfLiberty

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@yachilviveyachali
Okay, interesting point. I’ve got two responses:

  1. That’s a huge generalization. You’re going to need to give something to support that claim, and…
  2. Even if that is the case, that’s still much more time and effort spent studying a subject than most people will be able to get from an hour of googling, which is what most people mean when they say “I’m doing my own research”

yachilviveyachali
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@Moozer325
When you have graduated and have chosen your field, you begin to work in this field. Doctors are often working for more than 12 hours a day. How much time do you think they have to continue studying?

Even if that is the case, that’s still much more time and effort spent studying a subject than most people will be able to get from an hour of googling, which is what most people mean when they say “I’m doing my own research”
Can you support this claim? How do you know this is what they mean? How do you know their research comprises only one hour of googling? They could be spending months or years reading books and looking at reports. If others had read the reports, they would know that the young and healthy were unlikely to be hospitalized or to die from covid-19. This was the case prior to the vaccine and after the vaccine, although the young and healthy have ended up with anaphylaxis and inflamed heart muscle after receiving the jab.

I also said: “what are doctors best at? Ignoring their patients.” 

This comment is somewhat anecdotal and somewhat said in jest. It has some truth. We know that primary care physicians ignore their patients sometimes, or dupe them into thinking their problem is in their minds. I have great respect for emergency physicians, less respect for the primary care physicians who fail to investigate and fail to make referrals and fail to diagnose. They fall apart when there is an issue that appears complicated. They will do anything to avoid trying to figure it out. These are doctors who want a simple explanation, one that is easy to treat. What happens when more is required?
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@yachilviveyachali
When you have graduated and have chosen your field, you begin to work in this field. Doctors are often working for more than 12 hours a day. How much time do you think they have to continue studying?
Well that doctor isn’t an expert. Experts are really few and far between. A doctor who’s dedicated their career to developing medicine and better treatments for a specific conduction, and has published lots of papers and maybe books on the subject is an expert.

Can you support this claim? How do you know this is what they mean? How do you know their research comprises only one hour of googling? They could be spending months or years reading books and looking at reports.
Fair enough, that was a hyperbole, my bad. The point I was getting at is that most people work too. You may know more about a subject than the average person, but that doctor who went through med school is still most likely more qualified than you, because majority of their time for many years was dedicated to learning, throughout under-grad, grad school, and residency. Average people just don’t have that kind of time. That’s not to say that every doctor is an expert, but 99% of the time the average doctor is going to know more than you about medicine, and I’m not even saying we should trust these doctors about everything. Go to the very top, and find the specialist who dedicate their careers to learning about one  thing, find multiple people at that level, and check their credentials. I’m not saying don’t be skeptical, but doing your own research doesn’t mean going against the status quo. The status quo is there for a reason, they’re right more often than not.

If others had read the reports, they would know that the young and healthy were unlikely to be hospitalized or to die from covid-19. This was the case prior to the vaccine and after the vaccine, although the young and healthy have ended up with anaphylaxis and inflamed heart muscle after receiving the jab.
Yeah, I read those reports, and I recall that’s what the medical establishment was saying too. I stayed at home and I wore a mask because I wanted to be as careful as possible for my health, and because I didn’t want to spread the virus to other people, namely my grandparents and other older people around me. I trusted the experts and we all knew I was at less risk, I just followed the guidelines for the safety of others that I cared about.

I have great respect for emergency physicians, less respect for the primary care physicians who fail to investigate and fail to make referrals and fail to diagnose. They fall apart when there is an issue that appears complicated. They will do anything to avoid trying to figure it out. These are doctors who want a simple explanation, one that is easy to treat. What happens when more is required?
That’s my point exactly, those aren’t the experts. Primary care physicians are great for the basic stuff, but when you have something special, you go to an expert in that field, a specialist.

yachilviveyachali
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@Moozer325
Well that doctor isn’t an expert. Experts are really few and far between. A doctor who’s dedicated their career to developing medicine and better treatments for a specific conduction, and has published lots of papers and maybe books on the subject is an expert.
Physicians treat the patients. The researcher and the physician who spends most of their time with patients have both graduated from medical school. One of them is spending their time researching diseases in a laboratory, and the other is with the patient. Some physicians who work in primary medicine or emergency medicine are involved in research and they publish papers. Surgeons publish papers.

What seems very apparent to me is that the human body is an unpredictable thing, and cares not about papers.

Fair enough, that was a hyperbole, my bad. The point I was getting at is that most people work too. You may know more about a subject than the average person, but that doctor who went through med school is still most likely more qualified than you, because majority of their time for many years was dedicated to learning, throughout under-grad, grad school, and residency. Average people just don’t have that kind of time. That’s not to say that every doctor is an expert, but 99% of the time the average doctor is going to know more than you about medicine, and I’m not even saying we should trust these doctors about everything. Go to the very top, and find the specialist who dedicate their careers to learning about one thing, find multiple people at that level, and check their credentials. I’m not saying don’t be skeptical, but doing your own research doesn’t mean going against the status quo. The status quo is there for a reason, they’re right more often than not.
I went to medical school in UK. You do not need a degree to enter medical school here. The majority of first-year students are 18. I was 18. You do need to have studied biology and chemistry for two prior years. In UK, a degree in medicine takes five years. I enrolled in 2018 and dropped out in late 2021. Granted, I have no degree in medicine, but I did study it for more than three years.

I have come to believe that credentials do not mean much. Some people are useless, or they are very bad. Their degree and their job title makes no difference. We are here to forge our own way in life, and should not be depending on the so-called experts to know what is right. 

Yeah, I read those reports, and I recall that’s what the medical establishment was saying too. I stayed at home and I wore a mask because I wanted to be as careful as possible for my health, and because I didn’t want to spread the virus to other people, namely my grandparents and other older people around me. I trusted the experts and we all knew I was at less risk, I just followed the guidelines for the safety of others that I cared about.
Is this why the medical establishment compelled the young and healthy to be vaccinated? They lied.

I don't believe masks achieved anything. What will be will be. Those who were going to be infected were infected. I am still not vaccinated. I caught covid-19 and it was mild.

It is ok for people to think about their loved ones. It is not acceptable when the government use your loved ones as an excuse to shut down your economy and keep you indoors. The governments should have understood that most of us have the natural inclination to think of our families. Why did they use force?
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@yachilviveyachali

Cases of myocarditis and pericarditis have rarely been observed after COVID-19 vaccination in the United States .
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@FLRW
Tell this to the person who has had it.

We all have to take a gamble with our health sometimes. It is not the job of the government to roll the dice.
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@yachilviveyachali
Physicians treat the patients. The researcher and the physician who spends most of their time with patients have both graduated from medical school. One of them is spending their time researching diseases in a laboratory, and the other is with the patient. Some physicians who work in primary medicine or emergency medicine are involved in research and they publish papers. Surgeons publish papers.
It's pretty simple here, the researchers are experts in their specific fields, the primary care physicians are knowledgeable, (most likely more knowledgeable than their patients) but not experts. Lots of people straw man this argument by pointing to false experts, but when I say expert, I mean like 1 in 10,000 people.

What seems very apparent to me is that the human body is an unpredictable thing, and cares not about papers.
That may or may not be true, but people with medical training can predict it at least somewhat better than the average layman can. We try to predict it because the other option is just living with whatever disease you have.

I have come to believe that credentials do not mean much. Some people are useless, or they are very bad. Their degree and their job title makes no difference. We are here to forge our own way in life, and should not be depending on the so-called experts to know what is right. 
Yeah you're right, it doesn't just take credentials and a job to be an expert. This is a video by one of my favorite YouTubers, the part about experts is at roughly 4:38. You don't have to watch it (though I recommend highly) so TLDR is that experts are people who have devoted their lives to something. You aren't an expert because you only spent a few years studying in a very broad area, and neither is a doctor who is fresh out of med school or residency. However a doctor that spent their career researching the contagious diseases, how they spread, and specifically different mutations of COVID is an expert in that area. I wouldn't go to them for neurosurgery though, because they aren't an expert in that area.

Is this why the medical establishment compelled the young and healthy to be vaccinated? They lied.
They did not. They compelled everyone to get vaccinated so we can develop herd immunity and not spread the virus more. Even though I may not be at risk, I can still spread the virus to those who are at risk. This is a public facing FAQ published by Johns Hopkins in July 2021. The first question on the list is asking  why should I get the vaccine even if I'm not severely at risk? The article answers that it keep other people safe. The medical establishment was very transparent about young people being safer, and they encouraged them to get the vaccine anyways to protect those who were more affected by the virus.

I don't believe masks achieved anything. What will be will be. Those who were going to be infected were infected. I am still not vaccinated. I caught covid-19 and it was mild.
This is just plain false. We have so much data showing us that masks work: (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666142X20300126, "Regardless of the type, setting, or who wears the face mask, it serves primarily a dual preventive purpose; protecting oneself from getting viral infection and protecting others."onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mds3.10163: "The current research results have shown that COVID-19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies.")

If you don't trust these sources because they're experts and part of the medical establishment, they publish their methods and findings. You don't have to blindly believe them because their work is out there for everyone to check. The data is free information.

Also, your anecdote doesn't really seem to help your claim. If you were vaccinated, you may not have caught the virus. Yes, it was mild you, but it may have not been mild for someone you spread it to. I got the virus twice before I was vaccinated, and it was mild, but my dad did get the virus and he had it much more severe. This is still anecdotal evidence though, so I wouldn't give it much credit. Finally, you said that those who were going to get infected got infected, but why not try to stop that. Why the pessimistic attitude? We know that masks, social distancing, and vaccines all stop the spread of the virus, so why not use them to keep people safer?

ADreamOfLiberty
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@Moozer325
Even though I may not be at risk, I can still spread the virus to those who are at risk.
Why did they say that people with natural immunity (anyone who recovered) should take the vaccine?


If you don't trust these sources because they're experts
Nobody says that.

They say they don't trust the sources, and then people like you say "but they're experts".

yachilviveyachali
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@Moozer325
Yeah you're right, it doesn't just take credentials and a job to be an expert. This is a video by one of my favorite YouTubers, the part about experts is at roughly 4:38. You don't have to watch it (though I recommend highly) so TLDR is that experts are people who have devoted their lives to something. You aren't an expert because you only spent a few years studying in a very broad area, and neither is a doctor who is fresh out of med school or residency. However a doctor that spent their career researching the contagious diseases, how they spread, and specifically different mutations of COVID is an expert in that area. I wouldn't go to them for neurosurgery though, because they aren't an expert in that area.
It was more than three years in a five year degree. If I wanted to, I could return and finish it, but my criminal conviction may be an obstacle. I did discuss it with one person, and he seemed to think it may not. The problem is that a forensic psychologist assessed me and came to some unfavorable conclusions. She said I needed to take the PCL-R test, as she suspected psychopathy. Some time has passed since then. Anyway, what I am saying is that I was studying medicine during the pandemic. This means I saw patients who had covid and other problems during the pandemic, including patients who had inflamed heart muscle and allergic reactions related to the vaccine. Did you see this?

To have “spent” their career implies they are at the end of their career. If I had chosen to work in biomedicine, I could have gone straight into working in a laboratory and looking at blood and other tissue samples. For how many decades do I need to be doing this to be considered an expert? I would be telling doctors what the problems are and their decisions would be informed by my findings.

They did not. They compelled everyone to get vaccinated so we can develop herd immunity and not spread the virus more. Even though I may not be at risk, I can still spread the virus to those who are at risk. This is a public facing FAQ published by Johns Hopkins in July 2021. The first question on the list is asking why should I get the vaccine even if I'm not severely at risk? The article answers that it keep other people safe. The medical establishment was very transparent about young people being safer, and they encouraged them to get the vaccine anyways to protect those who were more affected by the virus.
I hate to break it to you, but herd immunity had already developed. The young people who have gotten vaccinated need to get their heads tested. Some did it for very stupid reasons; they wanted to travel and wanted to keep their precious jobs. It is pathetic.

This is just plain false. We have so much data showing us that masks work: (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666142X20300126, "Regardless of the type, setting, or who wears the face mask, it serves primarily a dual preventive purpose; protecting oneself from getting viral infection and protecting others."onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mds3.10163: "The current research results have shown that COVID-19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies.")
Why did they pursue a vaccine if masks were so wonderful?

Also, your anecdote doesn't really seem to help your claim. If you were vaccinated, you may not have caught the virus. Yes, it was mild you, but it may have not been mild for someone you spread it to. I got the virus twice before I was vaccinated, and it was mild, but my dad did get the virus and he had it much more severe. This is still anecdotal evidence though, so I wouldn't give it much credit. Finally, you said that those who were going to get infected got infected, but why not try to stop that. Why the pessimistic attitude? We know that masks, social distancing, and vaccines all stop the spread of the virus, so why not use them to keep people safer?
You got vaccinated despite having covid twice and it being mild? This is akin to getting an imaginary set of balls sterilized, or being a 90-year-old woman and taking every contraceptive you can think of.

Finally, you said that those who were going to get infected got infected, but why not try to stop that. Why the pessimistic attitude? We know that masks, social distancing, and vaccines all stop the spread of the virus, so why not use them to keep people safer?
Yes, they did get infected. We have no control over it. We need to stop playing God. When are humans going to learn?