Is taxation theft?

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#31
yachilviveyachali
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@zedvictor4
I said people pay the government to do things for them. The implication here is that I understand the government does that which they cannot do or do not wish to do. 

Government is what gets things done.
Government gets many things done, and many things not done. Some of what it does is good, some of what it does is bad. What are the bad things to you? 
#32
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@yachilviveyachali
People don't pay the Government.

The Government are temporary paid employees of the State.

Established non-governmental institutions raise taxes. In the US It is referred to as the Internal Revenue Service.


And you can't please all of the people all of the time...John Lydgate.
#33
ebuc
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@zedvictor4
What if your government said fuck it we're fed up with you moaning bastards,  go sort yourselves out.

In Bucky Fullers 1969 book.. ' Utopia or Oblivion ..' of collected talks he gave over time, in one he states..' if all the governments of the world were to suddenly stop existing, humanity would carry on just fine '...or something like that. Im paraphrasing from memory.

This is basically anarchy --to whatever degree-- working out how to keep families fed, clothed etc.  Become an entrepreneur or cease to exist.

However, I think Fuller is correct overall, yet in the details, a not so nice criminal like element would also fill the void.  To what degree would such an anarchy fall off into violent chaos.  Depends on various circumstances of where are the chess pieces are on the game board of Earth, when such a scenario of the governments go poof overnight.

Basically this is what Trump/MAGA/Republicans are attempting to do. 
#34
Shila
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@zedvictor4
Government is what gets things done.

And taxation is what pays for it.
Good observation.
#35
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@ebuc
People who espouse anti-government rhetoric, just seem to think that everything they take for granted, which is everything that facilitates a 21st century existence, just sort of happens as if by magic.

And ask them what is their alternative to a structured governmental system, and they have no answer.
#36
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@zedvictor4
Established non-governmental institutions raise taxes. In the US It is referred to as the Internal Revenue Service.
Since when is the IRS a "non-governmental institution?" The IRS is an agency of the federal government under the umbrella of the Treasury, a Cabnet-level-led department  of the federal government in the Executive Branch. .
#37
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@fauxlaw
I would differentiate between the temporarily elected ruling body, and established institutions that administer the organisations and processes of State.

Obviously, all come under the general umbrella of government.

Though the guy down the street who has worked for 40 years as an IRS auditor...Does he govern you, or does he just crunch numbers for a living? 

In fact, in the US, almost 20 million people are employed by the State and local governments...Are they necessary, or just thieves who steal your money?
#38
Shila
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@zedvictor4
In fact, in the US, almost 20 million people are employed by the State and local governments...Are they necessary, or just thieves who steal your money?
That is what Doge is struggling to answer.
#39
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@Shila
DOGE.

Is that short for autocracy.
#40
ADreamOfLiberty
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@zedvictor4
Nothing quite as autocratic as transparency lol
#41
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Nothing quite as autocratic as transparency lol.

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Couldn't really get the gist of that statement.

Please clarify.
#42
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@zedvictor4
It was sarcasm.

DOGE = department of governmental efficiency

Exists solely to audit the government and publish everything it finds

That's as close to the opposite of autocracy or fascism or any other highly centralized highly invasive state that can exist without guillotines being involved.


Autocrats, fascists, nazis, communists, all want unquestioning obedience from the public and loyalty among the party/government officials. That's how you run a top down system.

To facilitate that, government secrets become routine and sacred. Audits and critiques become threats to the state and thus the nation.


DOGE and all decentralization and transparency agendas sacrifice loyalty of government officials (and their corrupt partners) for earned loyalty among the public.
#43
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Well, I guessed it was either sarcasm or satire.

Though I don't know if you sit on the fence or to the left or to the right.

I still don't know.


I would suggest that the very purpose of a Department of Government Efficiency is to autocratically strip a governmental system of waste and inefficiency.

Though in the US's case, I'm not at all sure of the sincerity of the autocratic head.


#44
ADreamOfLiberty
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@zedvictor4
Though I don't know if you sit on the fence or to the left or to the right.
I hang off the metalwork of the beacon held aloft by the goddess liberty.

I may have no choice but to pick a tribe or be a bystander but I in no way identify with that outdated and never useful categorization from the french revolution.


I would suggest that the very purpose of a Department of Government Efficiency is to autocratically strip a governmental system of waste and inefficiency.
You can't just prefix a concept with a contradictory adjective and call it a day. It can be claimed that reducing government secrecy and thus power is beyond a certain office's authority; but no matter who does it or why, it is the opposite of the conditions autocracy requires.

I'm going to violently go to sleep now.
#45
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I hang of the metalwork of the beacon held aloft by the goddess liberty.

I can picture you there.



I standby solitarily in the rural backwaters of the UK.

Should I be called to arms in the defence of liberty as my father was...I would not shirk.

Though I am forty years older than he was.

Trust no one were his watchwords...And so I don't.

Nonetheless, I still have a certain faith in the sensibilities of the British establishment, which allows me to sleep easy.


Nighty night.

Sweet dreams.
#46
Shila
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@zedvictor4
Nonetheless, I still have a certain faith in the sensibilities of the British establishment, which allows me to sleep easy.


Nighty night.

Sweet dreams.
You still have a 10% tariffs imposed by Trump on your exports to America.
#47
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@Shila
You still have 10% tariffs imposed by Trump on your exports to America.

Doesn't concern me...I export nothing to America.

10% of nothing is nothing.
#48
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@zedvictor4
I imported a large caliper from the UK. Actually made there too. Very reliable and accurate. This was nearly a decade ago.
#49
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Is taxation theft?
Yes, and it's justified theft.  Without it, you don't get public schools.