The Russian Mafia Endgame

Author: Casey_Risk

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Roses are red, violets are blue. In Soviet Russia, the game plays you!

IT'S A MAFIA + THIRD PARTY VICTORY!

Mafia: Cerulean, Lunatic
Third Party: whiteflame (Survivor)

Commentary:

"Dude is everyone just playing bad on purpose"

-- Vader, sent to me after his death, providing the realest quote of this game.

I will admit, I made a mistake in setting up this game. Ivan IV was indeed the first Tsar of All Russia, but wasn't necessarily the first person to be called 'tsar', which is where the town v town fight between Banana and Earth came from. Tsar of All Russia was a particular title that Ivan IV was the first to hold, while Ivan III was referred to as 'tsar', though Russia was not yet a true tsardom at the time and he was mostly referred to as 'tsar' by people outside Russia. Also, I'm not sure if he was actually the first person to be called 'tsar'. Yeah, I wasn't as familiar with Ivan the Great as most of the other characters in this game, and I should have been more careful about writing his role PM. I sincerely apologize for that.

That being said, the town really brought this loss upon itself. Even without PM issues, Earth may have gotten himself lynched regardless with how little he was posting and contributing. Earth, I know you are a low poster in general, and I'm not going to ask you to completely change up your playstyle or anything like that -- I think having players with different styles is overall a good thing. That being said, you have to do something to make sure you actually get townread.

Really, that's the lesson that needs to be taken away from this game. Not one, but two members of the town tried a gimmick to bait the night kill, and both ended up getting themselves lynched instead. The claims themselves weren't necessarily bad -- I actually think that Anastasia/Beloved Princess in particular was quite genius, but player behavior ended up putting an unnecessary spotlight on them. As Austin said to me over PM in the middle of the game, "It took me about 10 minutes into my first mafia game to realize that being towny, and having others listen to you, are as important as finding scum." And yeah, I think that pretty much sums it up.

I don't know if the right takeaway here is necessarily to never, ever, do gambits as town, but you have to realize that when you take a gambit, you are assuming the risks that come with it, and you have to be prepared to bare those risks. You can't lie about your character and role and then act righteously indignant when people call you out on it, because your indignance isn't righteous.

Also, ADOL, I know I already said this over PM, but waiving your night action on both nights was just a really terrible decision. The chances of you being alive and able to use your ability during NP4 were very low to begin with. You gotta use your abilities while you still can. I don't want to come off as being overly harsh here -- I think you have the potential to be a good player, but you need to learn how to actually play towards your wincon as town. Getting yourself scumread isn't going to help you. If you want to keep playing, though, I hope you will do so. Just be willing to learn and adapt your playstyle, okay?

I think the scum team did an overall decent job here. MVP goes to Luna, who was the most active player and gave himself a ton of towncred with that Dreamer claim. It was extremely risky, of course, since he had no way of knowing that he wasn't visited on the first night, but it paid off, and the claim itself was really good. I loved the justification, definitely something I would actually use.

WF, you played pretty well as well. You didn't have to do much to take the heat off of you given what else was going on in the town, but you were never a serious potential lynch, and neither were you a serious NK candidate, either. You definitely earned your win as a 3P.

Overall, in terms of balance... I do think this game leaned toward the town overall, but not extremely so. The mafia certainly got lucky, but in a different timeline, it may have been much harder for them to pull off a win.

Once again, congrats to the three winners, and I hope we can all learn something from this game to improve our future games.
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Mafia:
  • Cerulean - You are Joseph Stalin! The Man of Steel led the Soviet Union for decades, successfully fending off Nazi Germany during WWII, industrializing the USSR, turning it into a formidable world power, and codifying Marxism-Leninism. However, he was also a ruthless autocrat and dictator, suppressing political dissent and sending millions of criminals and political prisoners to forced labor camps through the Gulag system. Because of this, you are the Mafia Jailkeeper. Once per night, you may jail any other player, preventing them from using any active abilities, but also protecting them from lethal night actions (including the mafia night kill). You win with the Mafia.
  • Lunatic - You are Catherine II, aka Catherine the Great! Born Sophie of Anhalt-Zerbst, Catherine became Empress after successfully executing a quick coup against her unpopular and ineffective husband. As the reigning monarch, Catherine broadened the borders of the Russian Empire and strengthened its position as a European power. She placed her former lover on the Polish throne, using him as a puppet King to directly influence the country, eventually gaining much of its territory in the Partition of Poland. Because of Catherine's coup, military conquests, and great political influence, you are the Odd-Night Ninja/Even-Night Vote Thief. On odd-numbered nights, if you perform the night kill, it will be undetectable by investigative roles. On even-numbered nights, you may target any other player to secretly control their vote during the following day. (This will not take effect on a MYLO/LYLO day.) You win with the Mafia.
Mafia Factional Abilities:
  • Night Kill: Once per night, you may kill any non-mafia player. If both members of the mafia are still alive, you must choose who will carry out the kill.
  • Anti-claim: Once per night, you may name any player and a corresponding character and role. If that player is the named character and has the named role, they will become Fragile for the night and therefore be unable to be protected from the Night Kill by any town protective roles.
  • Fakeclaim help: At any point in the game, you may ask about up to two characters and up to two roles to see if they are in the game or not.
Third Party:
  • whiteflame - You are Leon Trotsky! A socialist revolutionary, Trotsky was exiled to Siberia twice for his revolutionary activities, but managed to escape both times. He returned to Russia to help lead the October Revolution, which ultimately led to the creation of the USSR, of which Trotsky was one of the most prominent figures. After the death of Lenin, Trotsky was the most vocal opponent of Stalin and his rise to power, eventually causing Trotsky to be exiled yet again. Even while living in exile from the Soviet Union, Trotsky continued to oppose Stalinism until his assassination in 1940. You are the 2x Hider-Survivor. Your goal is to survive the game. Two nights per game, you may choose to hide behind any other player. If you do so, you will be unable to be targeted by any night actions, including lethal actions. However, if the player you hide behind dies, you will also die. You win if you are alive when the Town or the Mafia reach their win condition. You lose if you die at any point for any reason.

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Town:
  • That2User - You are Grigori Rasputin! Born to a peasant family in Siberia, Rasputin had a sudden religious awakening in adulthood and became an ascetic traveler, gaining much fame and notoriety. His fame eventually reached Moscow and spread to the royal family who invited him in, hopeful that he could heal their son who, unbeknownst to the public, was a hemophiliac. As the famous song goes, 'For the queen, he was no wheeler-dealer, though she'd heard the things he'd done. She believed he was a holy healer who would heal her son.' Because of Rasputin's status as a mystic faith healer with outsized political influence, you are the White Mage. During the night phase, you may target any player to protect them from lethal night actions on that night, as well as during the following night. You may not use your ability two nights in a row. You will not be told if your action fails. You win with the Town.
  • Savant - You are Sergei Witte! Previously a skillful diplomat who helped negotiate an end to the Russo-Japanese War, Witte became the first prime minister of Russia after advising the Tsar to move towards constitutional monarchy in the wake of the 1905 revolution. Witte knew it was the only way to quell the revolutionary masses, though he did not believe it would serve as a long-term solution for Russia's issues. Because of Witte's history as a diplomat and his strategy as prime minister of trying to avoid war, you are the DP2 Emissary. At the start of DP2, the name of a randomly chosen Town-affiliated player will be revealed to you. You win with the Town.
  • WyIted/Mharman - You are Mikhail Gorbachev! As leader of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev promoted two big policies, Glasnost (openness) and Perestroika (restructuring), advertising them almost as if they were own personal trademarks. However, his policies ultimately led to the breakup of the USSR. Because of Gorbachev’s focus on increased government transparency (Glasnost), you are the Watcher. Once per night, you may target any player to learn who, if anyone, used an action on them during the night (other than yourself). You win with the Town.
  • Danilaykus/ADreamOfLiberty - You are Grigori Potemkin! Potemkin was a military leader and, for a time, lover of Empress Catherine the Great. Potemkin even helped Catherine carry out her coup. Even after their romantic relationship ended, he remained a close friend and ally to her. Allegedly, Potemkin once created a portable fake village to impress the Empress during her journey to Crimea, thus being the source of the term ‘Potemkin village’ - a facade that makes a situation seem better than it is in reality. You are the 2x Asceticizer. Two nights per game, you may target any other player to build a Potemkin village around them as a ruse to frustrate any non-lethal actions used against them by players of a *different* alignment, causing their actions to fail. You win with the Town.
  • Earth - You are Ivan III, aka Ivan the Great! Ivan III was the first person in Russian history to bear the title of ‘Tsar’, and reigned as Tsar for longer than any other monarch in Russian history except for his grandson, Ivan IV. As Tsar, Ivan III ended the dominance of the Tatars over Russia and brought other lands into his territory through purchase and conquest. Because of how Ivan consolidated power and brought more people and territory under Russian control, you may add more people to your own neighborhood. You are the Neighborizer. Once per night, you may target any other player to add them to your own Neighborhood, a private chat where every member can directly talk with each other as long as they are alive. You win with the Town
  • iamanabanana - You are Ivan IV, aka Ivan the Terrible! The first Tsar of All Russia, Ivan greatly expanded its territory, taking control of Siberia and expanding to the Caspian Sea. However, Ivan was also a deeply paranoid leader, carrying out the Massacre of Novgorod simply because he believed that some people there may have been planning treason against him, which probably wasn't even true at all. Ivan IV even ended up killing his own son in a rage, a moment immortalized in the famous painting “Ivan the Terrible and His Son Ivan” by Ilya Repin. You are the 1x Town Executioner. One day per game, you may immediately execute any player who has at least half of the votes necessary to reach a majority. This will immediately end the DP. Use your ability by writing ‘Execute [Player]’ in bold text. This ability may not be used on a MYLO/LYLO day. You win with the Town.
  • Vader - You are Pyotr Stolypin! The third prime minister of Russia, Stolypin was known for his agrarian reforms, which transformed the way farm ownership worked, introduced agricultural cooperatives, and made it easier for peasants to purchase their own farms. While these reforms were effective, Stolypin also served during a time of revolutionary unrest, leading to his assassination in 1911. Because Stolypin instituted reforms that greatly increased the productivity of Russian agriculture, you are the Fruit Vendor. Once per night, you may give a piece of fruit to any other player. This has no effect on gameplay, except that your target will be told that they have received a piece of fruit (but not who gave it to them). You win with the Town.
  • ILikePie5 - You are Fyodor Dostoevsky! Dostoevsky is one of the most prolific and influential writers in Russian history, as well as in the world of literature in general. Famous for works such as “Crime and Punishment,” Dostoevsky wrote on a variety of philosophical and religious topics that spoke to the struggles of 19th century Russia. His work would prove to be a large influence on existentialist writers like Nietzsche. Later in life, Dostoevsky published a compilation of essays and articles he wrote in “A Writer's Diary.” Therefore, you are the Diary Writer. If you die, a list of all the players who used a night action on you will be publically revealed. (Note: if there is more than one name on this list, they will be listed in alphabetical order, not necessarily the order in which you were visited.) You win with the Town.

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Night Actions

NP1:
  • whiteflame and ADOL both waive their night actions
  • That2 protects herself
  • Cerulean jails Whiteflame
  • Vader gives a fruit to Whiteflame
  • Mafia uses anticlaim: Savant/Sergei Witte/Governor (Failed)
  • Lunatic ninja-kills Savant
  • Mharman watches Whiteflame
NP2:
  • ADOL waives his night action
  • Whiteflame hides behind Banana
  • Cerulean jails Vader
  • Vader gives a fruit to Pie (failed due to Jailkeeper)
  • Lunatic steals Vader's vote
  • Mafia waives anticlaim
  • Cerulean kills Mharman
  • Mharman watches Pie (No results - killed)
NP3:
  • Cerulean waives Jailkeeper
  • Whiteflame hides behind Pie
  • Vader gives a fruit to LUnatic
  • Mafia uses anticlaim: Vader/Pyotr Stolypin/Fruit Vendor (Successful)
  • Lunatic ninja-kills Vader

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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@That2User
@Savant
@Cerulean
Endgame
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@Earth
@Mharman
@ADreamOfLiberty
@WyIted
@iamanabanana
Game's end
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@Vader
@ILikePie5
Игра окончена
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@Barney
Barney, we need you to sub in!

(Lol, only kidding)
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@Casey_Risk
Getting yourself scumread isn't going to help you. If you want to keep playing, though, I hope you will do so. Just be willing to learn and adapt your playstyle, okay?
Only two things made me remotely interested in this game:
1.) Solving logic puzzles
2.) Casual friendly interactions

(1) had zero effect on anybody, in fact it was called flawed by multiple town and I think it was scumread. The fact is plainly in the open that the strategy I and That2User advocated would have won for town, and there was a high chance of town winning with it even if Lunatic had been town.

Here is the wisest thing said in that game:
mafia is never killing luna, luna is never dreaming again, we need to kill luna to see if mafia is in me/adol/banana.
vtl luna

Here is where I should have been townread and helped lead town to victory: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12585/posts/510070

Here is the closest thing to a "throw": https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/12585/posts/510083


[ADOL answering Whiteflame] So you have to agree that town can't just methodically go through the list and keep hoping that Lunatic was town right? Like imagine we lynch User or I am lynched, turns out the person was town.

Are you just going to lynch someone else on the list or are you going to revisit Lunatic's trustworthiness? If it's the later wouldn't it be better to get it out of the way now when fewer night kills have occurred?

Town methodically went through the list and kept hoping that Lunatic was town.

Whatever other mistakes I made either in rhetoric or strategy borne of ignorance of game culture or stupidity; this remains the strongest town contribution as a matter of objective fact.

I perhaps would have tolerated if not agreed with the idea that this was not town behavior, but there was more:


(2) was ruined by more than one of the people accusing others of throwing were (and it wasn't even just a scum strategy).

That's unsportsmanlike like and has nothing to do with the rules or winning strategies.

So no, I will not be playing again.


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@ADreamOfLiberty
You realize that you not using your role was by definition throwing right? Same as you not stating exactly what you did.

As for your Luna “strategy.” Hindsight is 20/20, but Luna objectively made an extremely risky play, and the rightfully got townread for it. With that many visiting roles in the game and not one visited Luna is very unlikely. And assuming Luna was town, we would’ve had to lynch 2 people anyways and the 3rd could’ve been scum. So your point doesn’t make sense
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@Casey_Risk
I'll give more thoughts later on the game, but I like the setup, even if how it played out is still beyond me. There are sure to be a number of disagreements over what strategies are beneficial for town members with certain roles to take, particularly when it comes to risky gambits, but it's good to see that Luna's still taking big swings with his scum play. The setup seems mostly balanced from where I'm sitting.
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@That2User
You really need to stop protecting yourself lol. I get what you were trying to do, but scum would only target you if they had Strongman cause they know a protective role would be targeting the Beloved Princess
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@ADreamOfLiberty
(2) was ruined by more than one of the people accusing others of throwing were (and it wasn't even just a scum strategy).

That's unsportsmanlike like and has nothing to do with the rules or winning strategies.

So no, I will not be playing again.
1) If you’re town, you shouldn’t vote for yourself unless there’s a strategy behind it

2) That2’s gambit made no sense cause scum would never target a Beloved Princess in the first place unless they had a strongman

3) You need to use your role and tell us how you used it. Townies need to be able to believe other townies. If you act scummy by refusing to cooperate, you’re behaving like scum.

4) Your choice not to play.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
ADOL, the huge hole in your logic was assuming that Luna as scum would not have included his partner in his Dreamer "results" - that exposing Luna as scum would clear you and Banana. In this case, yes, all three people on his list were town, but that was by no means a safe assumption. So, on DP3, there were two options from the pov of the other town players:

  1. Lynch you. If you're scum, cool, otherwise it's a 50/50 shot between Luna and Banana.
  2. Lynch Luna. If he's scum, cool, otherwise it's a 50/50 shot between you and Banana, though you could also both be scum. And even if Luna was town, it wouldn't necessarily clear you.
And when you take into consideration the fact that you were refusing to tell who you visited to anyone, which was decidedly anti-town, it's not hard to see why the town chose to lynch you. It wasn't a bad decision at all. 
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@ILikePie5
I get what you were trying to do, but scum would only target you if they had Strongman cause they know a protective role would be targeting the Beloved Princess
Not necessarily in this case given the existence of Anticlaim. However, the scum team ultimately decided to lynch Savant first since he was universally townread, while That2 was a potential mislynch opportunity, so they decided to hold off on killing her. 
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@Casey_Risk
ADOL, the huge hole in your logic was assuming that Luna as scum would not have included his partner in his Dreamer "results"
There is no hole, it is a grave risk for a fake dreamer to put team on the list.

On average doing that will lose more games than not doing that. Therefore while it doesn't 100% clear the list, it does greatly increase the probability that they are town.

See:
I was thinking of putting ceru in the results but if the plan backfired and mharman had visited me or something I didn’t want to drag ceru with me as I’d assumed people would assume I as scum would do that
(it would be true even if Lunatic didn't admit it was true, but he did)

Also look at that silliness "I'd assumed people would assume I as scum would do that (include scum in the list)"


First iteration strategy: It's a bad idea to implicate your team. Every other iteration is presumption with lower and lower certainty. This is well known in game theory, the solution is to ignore it. That is assume your opponents are doing what advantages them.


Furthermore even in the scenario that he put team in the list, there would be only one scum left which would have extended the number of days that can be used to find him.

Your argument is weak.


which was decidedly anti-town
It wasn't decided by me. I gave everyone plenty of opportunity to give me a reason town would be advantaged. You couldn't speak of course, so if you want to explain it be my guest. I'm not interested in hearing the others repeat their unsupported assertions.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
There is no hole, it is a grave risk for a fake dreamer to put team on the list.

On average doing that will lose more games than not doing that. Therefore while it doesn't 100% clear the list, it does greatly increase the probability that they are town.
Luna literally claimed he wasn’t visited by anyone when there were a bunch of town visiting roles. That was an insane risk. On average doing that, town wins the game as well. 

It wasn't decided by me. I gave everyone plenty of opportunity to give me a reason town would be advantaged. You couldn't speak of course, so if you want to explain it be my guest. I'm not interested in hearing the others repeat their unsupported assertions.
What town reason do you have to not state what you did? As for advantage. Let’s say you did used your action on me NP2. Then Supa giving me the fruit would have failed and further put Ceru under doubt. The fact that you just refused to state what you did is by definition against town. Town needs the full picture to be able to perform. But if you just hide it, you’re getting yourself lynched and you’re not giving the full picture. 

Here’s the advantage. If you ever get lynched, we can believe you with 100% accuracy. After you got lynched, I believed that you used your action on Supa NP1. Granted it didn’t mean anything, but imagine if you had chosen me NP2, and stated it. That means it’s conceivable that Ceru didn’t actually JK Vader. I’d know for a certainty that Vader couldn’t give me the fruit because you had made me into an Ascetic.
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@Casey_Risk
Not necessarily in this case given the existence of Anticlaim. However, the scum team ultimately decided to lynch Savant first since he was universally townread, while That2 was a potential mislynch opportunity, so they decided to hold off on killing her. 
I know. I’m just saying she was trying to bait the NK by saying Beloved Princess and then using White Mage to protect herself, when in reality, scum never would’ve chosen her for fear of protection, or being watched, etc. So in reality, she should’ve protected someone else like Savant because scum weren’t going to target her anyways unless they had a Strongman, in which case her protection wasn’t going to matter anyways. At that point she wouldn’t have known what the anticlaim would’ve done
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It wasn't decided by me. I gave everyone plenty of opportunity to give me a reason town would be advantaged. You couldn't speak of course, so if you want to explain it be my guest. I'm not interested in hearing the others repeat their unsupported assertions.
I actually did respond to your point that it didn't matter and didn't receive a reply, but setting aside those responses, I think the fact that you got lynched in part because of your intransigence is reason enough by itself. Even if town gained absolutely no value from the information of who you used your role on and why, it clearly became a substantial part of the basis for your lynch. You can say that voting to lynch you on that basis was a bad decision, but you can't argue that it was a substantial factor that moved townies to make that decision. Assuming you still wanted to win (certainly didn't seem like it past a certain point), doing what you could to prevent your own mislynch had clear value.

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@ADreamOfLiberty
For what it's worth, ADOL, Lunatic and I both thought we would have you marked as Obvious Town on D3 if we were Town, but it was pro scum wincon to contribute to bulldozing you.

Not a whole lot I have to say, Lunatic did most of the heavy lifting. We didn't have any Town abilities we really wanted to block, so I spent my N2 Jailkeep on Vader for credibility.

This is why you never concede.
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@Cerulean
We didn't have any Town abilities we really wanted to block, so I spent my N2 Jailkeep on Vader for credibility.
and you knew that because.... town always claims and always tells the truth...


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@whiteflame
I think the fact that you got lynched in part because of your intransigence is reason enough by itself. Even if town gained absolutely no value from the information of who you used your role on and why, it clearly became a substantial part of the basis for your lynch.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
and you knew that because.... town always claims and always tells the truth...
That’s not true either. My point was that you should tell the truth unless you’re absolutely certain that lying will not harm you
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I caught a hint of saltiness with the unsportsmanship behavior comment. I don’t really know what to say but I am sorry you feel that way. I don’t think I was more unruly to you in this game than I have been towards others in the past (seriously I think I’ve tamed down a lot, ask pie how much of a dick head I used to be in some of these games).

Anyways if I contributed to you not wanting to play mafia I apologize, obviously most of my argument to you was scum manipulation and strategy. You were always intended to be a mislynch target, I specifically chose people on my dreamer results that I thought would be easy to frame (and obviously you being a newer player means people don’t know your meta yet, thus it would be easier to cast suspicion).

The only real argument I made to you that I think agree with as town is that you CAN lie as town but the lie has to be good and the strategy has to make sense. The risk vs reward factor of a town lie has to make some degree of sense. Some people including myself have lied as town before and it has backfired. Some people have succesfully pulled it off. For example that2user lying about Rasputin actually nearly screwed me dp1. You can ask Casey how close I was to fake claiming Rasputin. I ended up backing away from that claim because Rasputin was to close to Anastasia in the Russian history timeline and too closely related events wise.

That said if I was town I genuinely would have tried to defend you from being punched there, maybe it was just my inside knowledge but your behavior screamed “town” to me. Mafia wouldn’t bring unwanted attention to themselves by outright refusing to claim an action like that. Anyways, I genuinely feel bad for choosing you as a mislynch target now, I didn’t think it would cause you to full on quit, and I think you’d make a great member of the mafia community here if you stuck around. Maybe you could change some minds with your ideas and theories eventually. Some of us are stubborn, but the meta always changes, and it had to start somewhere. 

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@Casey_Risk
I also apologize to you for my neurotic rants about balance lol. Ultimately I do think it was town sided but mostly because 4 mislynches is a lot and mafia is pretty challenging in games where the majority are made to be role madness (no vanillas and a lot of confirmbale roles), Poe inevitably catches up. That said I loved the theme and the roles I do feel were balanced. We had counters to everything and the vote theif could have been very powerful just didn’t end up needing it. I liked the anti claim mechanic as well.

Game overall was great and for you being newer as a mod (3rd game right?) you balance better than a lot of mods with experience to props to you for that. Fun game and role interaction. 
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Game overall was great and for you being newer as a mod (3rd game right?) you balance better than a lot of mods with experience to props to you for that. Fun game and role interaction. 
It's my fifth game, lol. Ace Attorney, US Presidential Elections, Classic Movies, ERB, and now this one. Thank you for the comp, though, I appreciate it. 
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Oh, and the theme split was leaders in Russian/Soviet history who were not ethnically Russian vs ethnic Russians - Catherine the Great was Prussian by birth, Stalin was from Georgia, and Trotsky was ethnically Jewish and from Ukraine. Granted, I did cheat on the split a little bit by including Gorbachev as a town character since he had mixed Russian and Ukrainian ancestry, but he was at least partly Russian, so I think it still counts.

I was interested to see if whoever got Catherine the Great would be tempted to straight claim their character, especially after Potemkin claimed, since they were so closely tied together historically and thematically, but Luna claimed Mendeleev quickly, so that didn't end up happening. 
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It's my fifth game, lol. Ace Attorney, US Presidential Elections, Classic Movies, ERB, and now this one. Thank you for the comp, though, I appreciate it. 
Oh duh lol. I guess your a vet then