And the Orthodox are modern day Pharisees. Talmud is corrupt.
Non-Orthodox Jews cannot find a good reason to oppose converting to Christianity.
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The non-odthodox Jews must explain who the Messiah is if not Jesus.
Christianity is the stage 2 of Judaism.
The Jews maybe can get to heaven by Old Covenant but the key question is why?
Why is Jesus only the messiah for gentiles? Who is their messiah?
I would prefer if Jews converted to Christianity, but its not going to happen. The main problem is that they believe they are God's chosen. Converting to Christianity would mean being equal to non-Jews then. It contradicts their teachings.
Well, I would prefer if they converted to polytheism, but thats even less likely.
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@Clausewitzian
You are a Jew, so correct me here if I said something wrong.
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@TheGreatSunGod
Whiteflame is a Jew also but I didnt make this as callout.
I feel I am missing a key thing of why they deny Jesus and new covenant.
I am trying to comprehend why that is and who the descendant of King David is that they say is the Messiah.
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@TheGreatSunGod
The main problem is that they believe they are God's chosen. Converting to Christianity would mean being equal to non-Jews then. It contradicts their teachings.
No. All our Biblical chosen except Luke and Noah were Jews. We do not deny the Jews met the Lord (yhwh) first.
Jesus said the only way to the Father is through him.
Was that for gentiles only?
Whiteflame is a Jew also but I didnt make this as callout.I feel I am missing a key thing of why they deny Jesus and new covenant
You want to debate more than one person. Different people give different explanations for their belief.
. All our Biblical chosen except Luke and Noah were Jews. We do not deny the Jews met the Lord (yhwh) first.
I mean, God's chosen in a sense that God favors them, and if they convert to Christianity, then they fear it might result in divine punishment as they think Christianity is very corrupt.
They obviously do think Christianity is wrong here. I am not saying anything which isnt already well known.
Also, almost all religions are mutually exclusive today. They all say they are right and they all deny that others are right.
Their religious texts warn of very severe consequences on this world if they abandon their religion. Its not case that they risk nothing if they convert to Christianity.
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@TheGreatSunGod
Who is the new Messiah they said would come?
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@TheGreatSunGod
Also, almost all religions are mutually exclusive today. They all say they are right and they all deny that others are right.
Except the non-Orthodox Judaism is connected directly to Christianity via Old Testament and a Messiah they do not know who is but keep denying was Jesus even though Jesus blatantly is the Messiah.
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@TheGreatSunGod
I mean, God's chosen in a sense that God favors them, and if they convert to Christianity, then they fear it might result in divine punishment as they think Christianity is very corrupt.They obviously do think Christianity is wrong here. I am not saying anything which isnt already well known.
In Torah it is written that gentiles have another way to 'the heavens' and instead of Yhwh they sometimes call their God Elohim.
Elohim is pluralistic. In Genesis Father refers to himself with 'our' instead of 'my'. They clearly were confused at the time but it seems they intuited Trinity without realising it.
Who is the new Messiah they said would come?
They dont know that. They just dont believe its Jesus.
In Torah it is written that gentiles have another way to 'the heavens' and instead of Yhwh they sometimes call their God Elohim.Elohim is pluralistic. In Genesis Father refers to himself with 'our' instead of 'my'. They clearly were confused at the time but it seems they intuited Trinity without realising it.
Jews suffered a lot throughout whole history. However, their religion connects their suffering directly to God's punishment. And God's punishment comes from abandoning principles, laws.
They see Jesus as contradiction to their laws. Like the abolishment of circumcision later in New Testament. They hold that laws given to them are eternal, and any contradiction to those laws could result in more punishment.
Further, they are supposed to be taken to promised land. By Messiah.
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@TheGreatSunGod
So is Jesus the messiah but the one for gentiles alone?
So is Jesus the messiah but the one for gentiles alone?
He did have much more luck with gentiles. Even tho he said he was "only sent to Israel", Israeli rejected him and non-Israeli accepted him, as he predicted.
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@TheGreatSunGod
So is Jesus the messiah but the one for gentiles alone?He did have much more luck with gentiles. Even tho he said he was "only sent to Israel", Israeli rejected him and non-Israeli accepted him, as he predicted.
Jesus was crucified by the Romans who were consider gentiles by Jews.
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@Shila
Jesus was crucified by the Romans who were consider gentiles by Jews.
Rome became Christian later.
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@TheGreatSunGod
Jesus was crucified by the Romans who were consider gentiles by Jews.Rome became Christian later
300 years later. After the Jews were displaced.
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@Shila
The point is, he did win over much more gentiles than Jews eventually after.
In fact, its possible parts of Rome were guilt tripped for Roman role in killing Jesus.
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@TheGreatSunGod
The point is, he did win over much more gentiles than Jews eventually after.In fact, its possible parts of Rome were guilt tripped for Roman role in killing Jesus.
The Holocaust made it clear the Jews were not welcomed.
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@TheGreatSunGod
All the Apostles were Jewish. Theres a guy called Luke who wasnt.
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@whiteflame
I’m not super well-versed in this, but I do believe the 3 messianic prophecies are a good counter-reason.
Is this true?
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@Sir.Lancelot
No, Jesus fits the messianic prophesy and was of the bloodline of King David via Mary.
Idk why they also point out Joseph even more directly being from King David since that contradicts virgin birth. Pretty irrelevant if Joseph is of King David's bloodline as he is a stepdad dad of Jesus.
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@Sir.Lancelot
I’m not super well-versed in this, but I do believe the 3 messianic prophecies are a good counter-reason.Is this true?
I mean, that's a factor. It's not like Orthodox Jews have a monopoly on the belief that the messiah has not come yet, though that belief isn't really a factor in my faith.
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@whiteflame
How can gentiles enter Shamayim?
Without Christianity what code of ethics can they follow? 7 laws of Noah only?
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@AdaptableRatman
How can gentiles enter Shamayim?Without Christianity what code of ethics can they follow? 7 laws of Noah only?
Not my area of expertise, dude.