Man vs Bear

Author: RemyBrown

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#31
yachilviveyachali
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@AdaptableRatman
But the bear needs aggravation. It doesn't attack that often even if you are right there in front of it.
They are an unknown. How many bears have you interacted with?

Nature is a beast, especially when hungry. This is why insects come after you in late summer and early fall; they are hungry, their food sources have depleted. Starvation makes them mad.

You see men and women every day. A man and woman made you. What on earth do you really know about bears? 
#32
yachilviveyachali
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@AdaptableRatman
DNA would be all over you.
It could be his first time. 
#33
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@yachilviveyachali
You see men and women every day. A man and woman made you. What on earth do you really know about bears? 
Everyone knows what a Teddy bears is.

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#34
RemyBrown
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@addvocate
theres also the fact that for women rape is the worst thing that can happen to you for a man its death and in this case a man is more likely to rape you then a bear sure there's a chance the man is a better option but there's also a chance the man is the worst option. 
Then the woman can say, "I'd rather be with a bear than a rapist" and virtually no man would care.

Why would a man be in the woods to begin with?  He might be hiking.  He might be camping.  Maybe he's hunting deer or fishing.  He's not going to be interested in raping women.  He likes the outdoors and that's how he was in the woods to begin with.
#35
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@RemyBrown
I think they fear the man also being a murderer.

You assume bears attack often and men attack less often. Bears rarely attack actually unless we mean polar bears.
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#36
RemyBrown
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@n8nrgim
The odds of being attacked after seeing a bear r 1 in 1000 and this even assumes the a bear sighting. Whereas odds of a man being a rapist is 6 percent. I think I'm convinced a man is probably worse
Assuming your probability is correct:

  1. Odds of bear death if sighted: 1/1000.
  2. Odds of man rape if sighted: 60/1000 (in order for a man to rape you, he has to see you first).

A woman is probably millions of times as likely to see a man over the course of her life than a bear.  

Assuming a woman would rather get murdered than r@ped, how many murders = one rape?  2?  3?  Is it better for the city of Chicago to get nuked (assuming 2 million deaths) or for one woman to get raped?  How many murders = one rape?  I believe murder is worse; I would set 2.5 rapes = 1 murder.
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#37
RemyBrown
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@AdaptableRatman
I think they fear the man also being a murderer.
Well, they've dealt with millions of encounters of men over the decades they've been alive and none have murdered them.

If these women believed what they said, then they would mace stranger men on sight; you would do that to a bear.
#38
ADreamOfLiberty
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@yachilviveyachali
If he made it clear that he was going to use force if you said no, yea.
Maybe we should not say no.
Everything depends on context, how well do you know this person? If you know he is a serial rapist it might not be worth the risk to refuse at all.

If it is a stranger, and I think that is the scenario, then chances are polite "no" is going to work 99%+ of the time, it's a safe opening move.

If you don't say no at any point and no threats are made you're (objectively) consenting, so at that point you're just saying you're so afraid of the <1% chance of being raped that you decided to actually consent. Up to the individual, but it casts no blame on the stranger.


BUT pretending to change your mind is the best strategy to live to tell the police.
This would be a lie. A man would be able to tell it isn't real.
Oh naivete is thou name.

Some rapist are turned on by lack of consent, consenting would turn them off or they would try to make it painful. No hope there.

Others are delusional, constantly revising history and the present to convince themselves that the other person wants it. <- That's who you'd be fooling, and it wouldn't take great acting skills it's what they want to believe so badly they're out of touch with reality.


What would you tell the police if you don't know his name or have license plate? “A man in the forest raped me, but I pretended to change my mind. I have no idea what his name is or where he is from.”
Well even if you can't get justice, you survive. Like ratman said, DNA is possible but wouldn't be enough to prove anything. Still making reports is important for context in future suspicion.

It's also much more likely you can get justice yourself (kill the guy) if his guard is down.
#39
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@RemyBrown
You take women too seriously, they really just say things
#40
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@yachilviveyachali
Maybe we should not say no. Some people like violence, but if you don't, you should submit.
Submitting to a rapist is not always a good idea. If rape cannot be stopped anyway, then submitting would reduce harm probably. But there are cases where men do without asking touch women in public or at work, and that can be prevented by saying no and resisting to them.
#41
yachilviveyachali
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Some rapist are turned on by lack of consent, consenting would turn them off or they would try to make it painful. No hope there.

Others are delusional, constantly revising history and the present to convince themselves that the other person wants it. <- That's who you'd be fooling, and it wouldn't take great acting skills it's what they want to believe so badly they're out of touch with reality.
How many rapists do you know? 

Making it painful is fine. Pain does not mean death. 

It's also much more likely you can get justice yourself (kill the guy) if his guard is down.
I don't know why you would do that. There are worse things in the world. It is a grown woman in this scenario, not a child. 
#42
Shila
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I think a higher percent of men have the urges. The percent who act on it is also higher in a way but what they do is dubious consent. Drunk parties, drugs, manipulation, aurhority position etc.
Bears don’t indulge in those distractions.
#43
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@yachilviveyachali
How many rapists do you know? 
To my knowledge none.


Making it painful is fine. Pain does not mean death. 
Yea it does if it's intentional. I'm saying the only kind of rapist who wouldn't kill the witness (the victim) is the delusional kind.


I don't know why you would do that.
Kill the rapist? You can't think of any reason?


There are worse things in the world.
There are better things that I would still kill someone for rather than a near certainty that they would escape justice and attack again.


It is a grown woman in this scenario, not a child. 
Oh well then fine, rape away what is the big deal. Whatever framework of values you're standing on, I'm not (so you are going to have to explain yourself).
#44
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I'm saying the only kind of rapist who wouldn't kill the witness (the victim) is the delusional kind.
What the fuck? Seriously, are you guys today all competing to say worst statements possible? I stop acting satanic and suddenly everyone else becomes satanic.
#45
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@RemyBrown
I think that some women sometimes say things, just to wind up some men.

And some people ask dumbass questions.

And other people answer them.
#46
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@TheGreatSunGod
No. You are just seeing what was always there.
#47
yachilviveyachali
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Yea it does if it's intentional. I'm saying the only kind of rapist who wouldn't kill the witness (the victim) is the delusional kind.
Were the men below delusional? They let the women go free. 

What makes you think they are more likely to kill in a forest than they are when they rape you at home or in the street? 




Kill the rapist? You can't think of any reason?
I would try if it were a matter of stopping them from raping a child. The third source tells us about a woman who was raped with her prepubescent daughter. This would give me a reason to kill the rapist. Is there a reason if I am the only one being raped? No. I would not kill him before, during, or after the rape. 

Oh well then fine, rape away what is the big deal. Whatever framework of values you're standing on, I'm not (so you are going to have to explain yourself).
We all have our ways of viewing things. 
#48
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@yachilviveyachali
What makes you think they are more likely to kill in a forest than they are when they rape you at home or in the street? 
There are very stupid people, but for the most part when someone does something they know is illegal they have a plan to get away with it.

It's a lot easier to get away with it in a forest with no witnesses.


If the perp didn't cover his face he's an idiot.


One of six suspects in the December attack was found dead in a New Delhi jail this past week. Authorities said he hanged himself, but his family and lawyer insisted foul play was involved.
This is why only an idiot commits a serious crime and leaves witnesses alive.


Paywalled


No. I would not kill him before, during, or after the rape. 
You would have the right to.

#49
AdaptableRatman
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@ADreamOfLiberty
You do not have a right to preemptively murder ever. You have a right to in heat of moment accidentally do so.

As in, admitting premeditation of it even if it was after a rape begins to count as 2nd degree murder and at the very least as 1st degree manslaughter.

It is unwise to throw around your false legal advice on here. If it is up to me you will get banned, talking about ways to commit rape or 'justifiable' murder and get away with it is a sign of a sick mind.
#50
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@ADreamOfLiberty
This is why only an idiot commits a serious crime and leaves witnesses alive.
These are disturbing statements. Seriously, stop saying that. You are basically here giving advice to rapists to kill their victims. Do you even see whats wrong with that? Most people would say that such person needs to repent if he commited rape, not that he is an idiot if he doesnt commit an even greater crime.
#51
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@AdaptableRatman
You do not have a right to preemptively murder ever.
It's killing, not murder, when it is justified.

Sure you do, when someone's planning to violate your rights and killing them is the only way to stop them.


You have a right to in heat of moment accidentally do so.
Doesn't have to be an accident.


As in, admitting premeditation of it even if it was after a rape begins to count as 2nd degree murder and at the very least as 1st degree manslaughter.
It's a mistrial if I'm on the jury is what it is.


It is unwise to throw around your false legal advice on here.
It was a moral statement, not legal advise.

My practical advise is that if you kill someone whose trying to rape or murder you in a forest where nobody would find the body, don't go to the cops. Not worth the risk.


If it is up to me you will get banned
If it were up to me your brain would work better. We don't always get what we want.


talking about ways to commit rape or 'justifiable' murder and get away with it is a sign of a sick mind.
Are your pearls nice and safe?
#52
ADreamOfLiberty
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You are basically here giving advice to rapists to kill their victims. Do you even see whats wrong with that?
I do sometimes forget how stupid many people are. I suppose to you it might seem plausible that someone might not think of killing witnesses unless they saw me point out the obvious on a debate forum.

The 30,000 cop dramas and 1,500,000 detective novels, they missed all those; but when they come to debateart.com they will learn the deep dark secret!


This is what I get for not talking about chickens....


Most people would say that such person needs to repent if he commited rape,
Counting on repentance and non-murder from a rapist is a poor strategy.
#53
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Counting on repentance and non-murder from a rapist is a poor strategy.
And telling them that they are idiots if they dont commit more crime is... what exactly?
#54
ADreamOfLiberty
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@TheGreatSunGod
Counting on repentance and non-murder from a rapist is a poor strategy.
And telling them that they are idiots if they dont commit more crime is... what exactly?
A statement invented by you.

#55
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My opinion on this is oddly controversial…

We (men) lost when so many of us behaved so badly that the bear even seems like an option.

#56
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@Barney
When women need no men, then men need not protect them anymore.

That's where the blame lies. Women for not supporting the role of men as protectors and also on men allowing that idea to fester.
#57
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@Greyparrot
So... Men are leaders etc but you also think women should be held solely responsible for losing respect for the leaders?

Can you pick which of the 2 you stick to?
#58
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@AdaptableRatman
I am saying women should not encourage men to embrace "bros before hoes" culture when they scream in their faces the "I don't need no man." culture. When women feel like hoes, every man looks like a bear.

If women choose to champion radical independence and treat emotional reliance on men as weakness, they shouldn’t be surprised when men lean into detachment and male bonding over the instinct to protect and build a family. It’s not hatred. It’s a predictable and measured response to toxic femininity.
#59
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@AdaptableRatman
When women were used to receiving protections from men, used to receiving the expected chivalry, physical safety, social insulation, and then reject those protections in the name of independence, they often don’t realize until too late that no one’s stepping in anymore. They broke the system without explaining why it was there in the first place. 

They expected freedom, not vulnerable exposure. But freedom without protection feels like abandonment. When male protections are removed, many women look to other women for solidarity… but it’s not there. Because most women aren’t biologically wired to protect other adult women (or men). They are mostly wired to protect their offspring. They’re biologically wired to compete, to watch status, to distance themselves from those falling out of favor, and hypergamy. That’s why, in cultural battles like trans competing in women’s sports, the strongest and earliest resistance didn’t come from women en masse, it had to come from men. The protective instinct is just... missing instinctually from women, and every woman will readily agree that women are very vicious toward each other with few obligations to sacrifice for each other. What fills the gap is chaos, not progress

So now we have this strange inversion: women have given up male protection, but haven’t replaced it with female protection, and what’s left is a kind of raw vulnerability. The world isn’t suddenly full of bears and rapists just because feminism made bold claims. It just feels that way without the social protections that were stripped away.

For half the world raised with protection, a world without it doesn’t feel like equality, it feels like oppression.

Thomas Sowell had a famous quote that oddly applies here in the world of feminists and bears.

"When people grow used to special treatment, equal treatment feels like oppression"
.





#60
TheGreatSunGod
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@ADreamOfLiberty
A statement invented by you.
So now you are backing away from your own claims. Fine then.