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@Mikal
* the fake character claim
Game Show Mafia DP2
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@Mikal
If you are saying you would not claim that because it’s cced by the mod himself are you saying Luna js lying or bad at game design if that is your actual role?
...what? I'm saying this would be an absurd claim for me to give if I was scum, period. That's it. No reflection on Luna. The fact that the roles I have are also in the game as rewards for answering trivia doesn't make them a full CC of my role anymore than any mod perks do, but it does mean I would be stupid as fuck to fake claim them as my role since it would mean I literally stole from the mod to compose my claim.
Why would he balance a game that way after saying both teams are not that powerful (I’m going off this from memory. I don’t remember seeing it but I remember someone saying it. Correct me if I’m wrong). He’s giving items, you have items, I have an item, other people could have items. Mafia would have to have somrthing to counter that.
...I don't get this either. Why is this a problem? I have to be on every lynch and every lynch has to be a scum lynch for me to access my role. That's a severe restriction since any mislynch means I don't get access to it at all. And yes, scum can have counters to my role too. What's your point?
JOAT makes sense if it’s a scum role to counter some of the items. What I’m saying is you could possibly be claiming your actual role and used the fake character claim. Saying that hasn’t been used is even more wild. Everyone has claimed lol and wylted claimed a bunch of stupid shit. I think it’s likely you or earth that used it and it makes more sense with you
All this implies the following:
You believe that scum have already used their fake role claim, meaning you think scum were given the fake role claim of Miller, which for some reason WyIted twisted into an off-night Miller.
You believe I then used the fake character claim of Wheel of Fortune and claimed town variants of scum investigative roles that I actually have and that directly matched what Luna was giving out.
You believe I used one of those scum investigative roles to find out that Banana did what she said she did and confirmed she visited Savant for... towncred I guess?
Honestly, I'd have trouble buying any of these as true, but the second one in particular takes the cake. Even if I have scum variants of these roles, the notion that I'd just go full speed ahead into claiming that those are my roles with the same roles being given out during the DP is just absurd dude. This would legitimately be the dumbest thing I've ever done as scum and I've done some stupid shit before. If you want to see my flip to prove it to yourself, be my guest.
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@whiteflame
No im not saying that last part as all and it’s probably because I’m on my phone
I’m saying I do think wylted used anything
So I think it’s plausible the character claim is you or earth and you are more likely. I think you could be a JOAT as scum to balance the items that are all over the game and twisted the JOAT to match the fake character claim
If there is a role claim, it’s very hard to tell if it’s been used or not.
Again going off his wording and will adjust this thought If there is just one fake claim but don’t see why he would seperate those two sentences if not. He would just say scum got a fake claim
I explained why I think you over Ana below that.
I hate not having a computer near me I can log on to sometime cus trying to explain logic on a small iPhone is awful lol
You believe I used one of those scum investigative roles to find out that Banana did what she said she did and confirmed she visited Savant for... towncred I guess?
What no….. I’m saying as scum you just watched her claim she went to savant and claimed a role to match that. I hope I’m making more sense than this to others. If not I really need to evaluate how I am saying things.
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@Mharman
It will make sense tomorrow
I think it’s wf or Anna and wf just gives us a solid pool. If it’s Ana it will be glaring obvious tomorrow
I can Poe most of the others tonight and have a backup plan for if I’m targeted
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@Mikal
Targeted for an NK, even?
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
Whiteflame, you are misunderstanding a few of Mikal’s arguments.
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@Mikal
No im not saying that last part as all and it’s probably because I’m on my phoneI’m saying I do think wylted used anythingSo I think it’s plausible the character claim is you or earth and you are more likely. I think you could be a JOAT as scum to balance the items that are all over the game and twisted the JOAT to match the fake character claim
So WyIted didn't use anything. I, as scum, have access to a fake role and character claim as well as a full claim from Casey. I choose not to go with Casey's claim. Rather than choose the obvious opportunity to just claim the role and select from dozens of unclaimed game shows, I take the character claim. I then decide that, since Luna has given me scum investigative roles, I'm going to utterly ignore the fact that he's handing out common town variants of those roles and just claim all three because... why? Sincerely, I'd love to hear what kind of reasoning someone would have for doing this as scum. It's just the most baffling choice one could make with all this information on the table and it still seems like really dumb strategy to me.
If there is a role claim, it’s very hard to tell if it’s been used or not.
We know there is a role claim. That's not a question. And if you, like me, do not believe that Miller was that claim, then I as scum would have had easy access to it. My partner would have easy access to Casey's full claim with justification, so they wouldn't have any need for it, and you're saying that I would have discarded the opportunity to claim that for... Wheel of Fortune, I guess.
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@Mharman
Whiteflame, you are misunderstanding a few of Mikal’s arguments.
Explain what I'm missing then because I don't get it.
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@Mharman
Yes
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@Mikal
What no….. I’m saying as scum you just watched her claim she went to savant and claimed a role to match that. I hope I’m making more sense than this to others. If not I really need to evaluate how I am saying things.
So then I claimed I used my role in a way that would lead Banana to looking more townread so that... what? I would be townread for it? I'll give you this much, that makes more sense, I just think it's a baffling way to give myself any kind of towncred while simultaneously taking pressure off of someone who was being sussed.
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@whiteflame
@Mikal
Well for starters he’s not arguing that Wylted used a fake claim that was given. He’s arguing Wylted didn’t use either fake claim.
It think you see that now.
Honestly that’s only one I can think of. A swear I saw a few more misunderstandings of yours but I don’t see or recall them now. Whatever I guess.
I will say that good chunk of your defense makes sense.
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@Mharman
Well for starters he’s not arguing that Wylted used a fake claim that was given. He’s arguing Wylted didn’t use either fake claim.
I addressed that. Given that, if I was scum, I'd have a free and clear fake role claim on the table, I find it hard to understand why I wouldn't have used that.
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@whiteflame
All this is assuming the claims are split which is r need Luna to confirm.
I don’t think wylted used either. Why would he twist a fake role claim into whatever the fuck he said lol
I think if he used either. The claim would have made more sense.
So I think you or earth used the fake character claim
The role claim Could have been JOAT and you tied it with that to make it work or JOAT is your role and you wanted to force it to work.
I think with all the items there is likely some way to counter them which a JOAT makes sense for. I think you prob literally are called JOAT and just twisted your claim aroind it lol
As for why not use Casey
I have no idea. Maybe it was obvious to claim that. It’s possible you are town and banana is using it. in some fucked up dimension it’s possible you both are scum and she used it and you are using the character.
To much shit going in to know for sure. I just know I have. It liked your behavior and when I called you out you started trying a lot harder. Was almost like you conceded cus you were going down then I made you feel bad for not trying.
And JOAT makes sense as scum to counter all the items that are floating around
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@whiteflame
If you are worried about being lynched and trying to come up with a role. It’s not about town reading her. It’s about trying to validate yourself as a role and push a lynch on Mharm because he was also in the bottom 3
Which you did if I recall.
Genuinely wondering if this is town v town and we’re dealing with Austin and Earth, maybe Austin and someone else.
I haven’t even thought about scum teams containing Banana it this point.
But if you ask me, Austin should be our lynch. I just townread Moozer a tad bit more. It sounds crazy given some of the weird things Moozer has said (his response to me about my “baiting him to reveal he’s talking on discord,” the Freudian slip Pie alleged from last DP) but Moozer says weird stuff like that all the time, furthermore, he had the chance to back out of the CC but didn’t.
Still really looks like Austin was setting something up, and I don’t fully buy it comes from a town perspective.
Or maybe you are both scum and you wanted to set her up.
I think it’s way more likely it’s town scum
Or you both are town but using you as utility gets rid of a possible mislynch later, gets rid of one of my strongest scum read , gives us info on her and if she is scum. We will know tomorrow
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@Mikal
Honestly, this is just a baffling conversation, dude. If you scumread me for my behavior and want to validate what I did, that's enough. You can pursue my lynch for those reasons alone. This is just me being utterly lost on how you think I could fuck this up so royally given all the time and information I had available to me. If that's your takeaway, that I did all this as you've described it, then I would count this as the worst single strategy choice I've ever made as scum mafia and I've had others where I've outed myself in DP1. This would legitimately be the dumbest unforced error I've ever committed, and it wouldn't even be close.
But I'm not going to argue it anymore right now. I've got a flight that's going to dominate my afternoon and evening and plenty to take care of in the meantime.
I’m lost as to how I’m not making sense and I’m wondering if this is scum deflecting and if someone else reads this back and tells me I’m retarted. I’ll concede and reconsider but this makes perfect sense in my head
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@whiteflame
This would legitimately be the dumbest unforced error I've ever committed, and it wouldn't even be close.
But in all seriousness, that was an error that happened under fast and unexpected pressure, so I can buy the idea that you’ve had more time to not make that kind of mistake this game.
Yknow, the best hints on your affiliation are probably found outside of this whole discussion. Starting to think that.
But yea a large part of this is the utility aspect and we can poe like crazy tomorrow if your claim about Anna is true. So I don’t think we go wrong cus I think you two are still the best. You make the most sense behaviorly and everything I’m saying about the role and character claims makes perfect sense to me but maybe I’m poorly explaining it
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@Mikal
I havent fully thought every path out just yet, but I think if there’s a case to be had on Whiteflame, it’s not gonna be in this discussion.
And going for a Whiteflame lynch over Moozer or Austin feels like a “dog trying to grab the bone in the reflection moment”
We have guaranteed scum among those two and I think the “better poe” we get for lynching Whiteflame could carry some assumptions that might not be true.
Occam’s razor says we just lynch within today’s CC.
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@Mharman
Not claiming that I've been good at this, but as you noted, I was pushed into claiming early in that game. I'll note I didn't have access to any fake claims that game, either. This time, I would have had plenty.
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@whiteflame
One question that's been on my mind for a while: Why didn't WyIted use scum's fake role claim? I don't think soldier would be a fake claim, and WyIted was very clearly on the chopping block. I think the explanation that makes the most sense is that WyIted knew that scum would still be lynched that day even if he survived. You were the other person on the chopping block yesterday, and I think the scum team may have decided it was worth sacrificing WyIted so you could hopefully get more town cred the next day and use the fake claim. I think that's been a big cause for my suspicion, and without that context my suspicion toward your claim may seem unwarranted to you.
You could very well be town, you tend to play well as either alignment, but of the scum pool right now your lynch gives us the most information, and I'm not really convinced that anyone else is definitely scum either (odds seem roughly equal to me between you, Mharman, and ana). Hope that makes sense.
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@Savant
That's fine enough. I've already admitted there are reasons to sus me. I don't really get why Luna would give me a fake role claim that would also happen to be among the three roles he's giving out for trivia rewards this game, seems like that would be pretty bastard and I would be unlikely to just plunge ahead with claiming them after seeing them all show up, but here we are. I fully recognize that I'm in PoE and that I'm the likely lynch regardless.
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@Lunatic
My vote for who to give the item to:
First choice: Mikal
Second choice: Austin
Third choice: Moozer
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@whiteflame
I feel like I’m still retarted. You could have claimed the character and your role is JOAT or your role is not what you are saying it is.
Your role and you admitting that a fake role claim like that would be bastard is exactly why I don’t think it’s your role. Or at least your role if you were town
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@Savant
Honestly, given how similar Wylted’s fake claim was to his actual character, I don’t think he used the fake character claim. I think he just looked for something similar to his own show.
I had an earlier theory that the theme split is dating game shows vs. all else btw. It wouldn’t make sense for a fake claim to be aligned with scum’s side of the theme split.
Granted, my theory might just be wrong because maybe Wylted didn’t make the mistake of having his fake claim be within the theme split, but it’s worth noting.
Also, sorry for raging at you yesterday.
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@Mikal
At this point, Mikal, we're just doing a WIFOM dance. If you think I'd do all this, whatever. I've made my case that this would be a dumb as hell move for me to make as scum, and I still believe that whether I actually have these roles, whether one of them is a fake role I received, or whether I just made it up. The logic is all confounding as hell and especially so given how much time and information I would have had to prep for my claim.