Is supporting illegal immigration the same as supporting slavery?

Author: Savant

Posts

Total: 46
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,033
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Savant
Well done, you are so clever.
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,034
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
Well done, you are so clever.
Thanks, I try.
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,033
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Savant
It is like RemyBrown has wormed his way into the site again.
LucyStarfire
LucyStarfire's avatar
Debates: 6
Posts: 747
3
3
6
LucyStarfire's avatar
LucyStarfire
3
3
6
It is like RemyBrown has wormed his way into the site again
You are a bully.

AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,033
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
Oh yes.
MayCaesar
MayCaesar's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 78
0
1
3
MayCaesar's avatar
MayCaesar
0
1
3
Slavery, by definition, is involuntary labor. When someone braves the Sonora desert in July to get here and work, you know that they REALLY want to work here. Comparing them with slaves who were forced to move here and labor is stupid.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 37
Posts: 8,671
4
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
4
4
9
-->
@MayCaesar
It's hyperbole and it's easy to try and ignore the argument by pointing to hyperbole thatatches the hyperbole of the left, but the left is essentially arguing that if farmers have to pay a fair wage than the economy will collapse and so are essentially advocating for abusive and exploitative practices that are easy to get away with when you are dealing with non citizens. 

They are simultaneously arguing that the economy will collapse if farmers pay a fair wage and treat their employees fairly while simultaneously arguing that minimum wage should be like $20 an hour 
MayCaesar
MayCaesar's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 78
0
1
3
MayCaesar's avatar
MayCaesar
0
1
3
-->
@WyIted
The title of this thread is "Is supporting illegal immigration the same as supporting slavery?". The answer is no, and nothing in what you wrote has anything to do with either the question or the answer.

The contradiction in the position of "the left" is obvious, and pointing it out makes for a valid argument. Starting with dubious comparisons though is not the way to make it.
Lashwnda
Lashwnda's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 50
0
1
5
Lashwnda's avatar
Lashwnda
0
1
5
-->
@Savant
Democrats are also accused (not without basis) of wanting to give free healthcare to illegal immigrants, wanting illegal immigrants to vote, caring more about illegal immigrants than native-born citizens, and wanting to offer full citizenship to illegal immigrants. So if the Democrats think that illegal immigrants should be treated like slaves, they're doing a bad job of it beyond the vaguely similar talking point of the economy depending on a particular group of people. How is the side that wants more rights for illegal immigrants across the board the side that wants to enslave them?
Nigga if a slavemaster say 'I want the taxpayer to pay for the housing and medical care of my slave', that just make him a exceptionally cheap an nasty slaveowner. AT LEAST the old massas pay for the hut, the food, and the old timey healthcare, leeches or some shit. These new niggas don't even wanna do that.

So we should deport the vulnerable population and send them to the country they don't want to live in?
Nigga you don't choose which country you live in, that's up to the country. That's like saying me not fuckin a nigga is wrong cause he don't wanna be a incel. What he want is immaterial if the other party don't consent.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 27,987
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Savant
Then all the businesses leave and everyone there starves. Is that a good solution that follows your principles?
This is unlikely. More likely is everyone will go back to Mexico where they will starve less. America has been fine with mining ghost towns and rust belt towns. Nobody is starving in Detroit after the auto industry got outsourced to China. Nobody in California is going to starve either.
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 27,987
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@WyIted
Ancient Rome (Late Empire)....
Rome relyed heavily on foreign mercenaries and migrant labor. Most of these groups had no real allegiance to Rome itself. They were just there for pay or survival. You can think of it as mercenary labor, not exactly slave labor.

👉 Result: Loyalty declined, the military fractured, and the Empire weakened from within. Without a shared identity or civic bond, the system unraveled.

Now, think of the 90 billion a year of remittances to Mexico.....
Savant
Savant's avatar
Debates: 25
Posts: 4,034
4
7
6
Savant's avatar
Savant
4
7
6
-->
@Lashwnda
So when a group of people is being exploited, we should ban them from the workforce?
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 80
Posts: 4,170
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
Any discussion of comparing the support of illegal aliens to antebellum slavery must begin with the proven logic that relationship is not ad hoc proof of cause, and therefore is a useless discussion. Aliens here illegally are illegal not because of anything done post-crossing the border, but by crossing the border itself without, by law, confirming their status here as legally binding on US jurisprudence. Whereas, in the antebellum era [pre Civil War] slavery was a legal condition in those states condoning it by law [generally the Southern States] although some Northern States were sympathetic to slavery though not engaged in it. In the Northern States, determined by State, blacks present there by whatever means [entered the U.S. legally as free immigrants, or escaped from slavery in the South] were even allowed to vote, and enjoyed other citizenship privileges as any other immigrant or person born here of earlier immigrants who became citizens.  

So, the direct comparison, now, is meaningless.
AdaptableRatman
AdaptableRatman's avatar
Debates: 18
Posts: 2,033
3
4
8
AdaptableRatman's avatar
AdaptableRatman
3
4
8
-->
@Lashwnda
So only consent of the master matters?

Make your psychopathic outlook make sense.
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 80
Posts: 4,170
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@MayCaesar
Slavery, by definition, is involuntary labor.
That is not necessarily a given. Were I an antebellum slaveowner [given my sentiments, however, I don't see that as possible we're I the same person I am now]  and I wanted one of my slaves to dig a hole, I would give him the shovel and demand he start to dig. He may refuse. I may grab his hands holding the shovel and force his body to go through the motions of digging, and may even succeed in having a shovelful of dirt, but it was my force digging the dirt, not the slave's. And, considering that he may have spent a lifetime digging holes, he is probably much stronger than I am, so his effort of refusal may exceed mine to force his digging. Net result, I dig the hole, not his "involuntary" labor. The same may result if I tell another slave more willing to obey the order to force the first to dig. I get the hole dug, perhaps, my original objective, but my inefficiency is evident, requiring two slaves to dig the hole one could accomplish. Of course, the second may have dug the hole himself, but I still have a slave refusing to work. I imagine that routine happened, and the slaveowner may have killed the first slave in a rage, but, net result, he is lacking a slave he used to have. No, slavery was not necessarily involuntary labor, but merely involuntary, definition not withstanding.
Lashwnda
Lashwnda's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 50
0
1
5
Lashwnda's avatar
Lashwnda
0
1
5
-->
@Savant
So when a group of people is being exploited, we should ban them from the workforce?
No nigga. When a country make laws that say 'you gotta treat workers this way', sometime a boss goes 'hmmm, nah'. He find some nigga that willin to act like a slave and hire him on the downlow. All that shit undermine basic standards. Only one way to handle it and maintain good working conditions. You pop Juanita in a crate and send her ratchet ass back to Guatemala, then you find the nigga that hired her and hit him with the ole firing squad.

So only consent of the master matters?

Make your psychopathic outlook make sense.
Lil Miss Ratman, I know readin is hard. I made two separate and distinct replies. The master metaphor dealt with people not wanting to treat they workers(slaves) with basic decency and expectin the government to supply they basic needs - which makes them worse than the old slave masters cause they won't even supply homes and healthcare to they workers. They want that work, they want to pay them niggas peanuts, but they don't want to supply anything towards they upkeep. A slave master treat his slave like a car - he get oil changes, he keep that shit in his garage, because that's his investment. That shit is dehumanizing. But these new massas wanna treat these nigga like rental cars, which is even worse somehow. Crackas will always find a way to be more evil.

The consent metaphor dealt with the idea that it's somehow wrong to send someone back to a place they was born in but don't want to be in. It's dumb as fuck. We all born somewhere. We live where we born. It's possible to move somewhere else, but only if the country want you. Most countries don't want a bunch of dusty ass, broke ass niggas rollin up on them.