Feminist Mafia Day 1

Author: Savant

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AdaptableRatman
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Mason isnt dp2 confirmable if they roleblock me.
AdaptableRatman
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I am confusing them very intentionally. 
Mikal
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I’m good with killing him. RM last chance, what is your actual role. If not I think you are hammering ultra. 

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Mason isn’t Dp2 confirmable if they role block you. Low-key dying. 
AdaptableRatman
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I am a dp3 confirmable role and I refuse to hammer ultra because his character fits me in 2 different themes I can imagine.
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Theme split may be brave vs cowardly feminists.
Ultracrepidarian
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You're still yet to explain why Luna 
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@AdaptableRatman
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@Ultracrepidarian
If I am voted off make Lunatic or the hydra of Earth and Wylted hammer you.
Casey_Risk
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Oh gods, sorry for being so absent today. Give me a moment to get caught up 
Lunatic
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First of all I am going to take a point whiteflame made with a grain of salt here: "There might be some basis for pursuing softclaims as well, but I'm hesitant to narrow the field of character claims early."

I kind of had the same stance in pies last game call of duty mafia, and since whiteflame is usually the person that encourages these types of softs, I am assuming he probably knows more of the theme than I do and that pursuing information needlessly early could be harmful. Which is why I am fine just lynching my top scum read here and not pushing too many more reads, also we have another full claim on the table with ultra, so probably have plenty of information already. At most, maybe town can pursue one more claim, though I don't really think it's needed at this point, since most of the reads seem to be between RM/ultra anyway. 

Why RM is the best lynch:

Differences in playstyle:

1A: Early aggressiveness/ vs "Hey guys how do you want me to play this time"

This point is a pretty distinct difference. We had a plan to pressure AR early last game, assuming he would be a game throwing, tempter tantrum throwing prick as usual, and applied early pressure. Not only did he immediately comply ( we will get into this later), he immediately pressed savant HARD afterwards. He was telling us multiple times how sure he was that savant was scum, and pressed this read all game. This game he basically does the opposite; In fact he basically comes in asking what people think of him off the rip, why he got immediately voted last game, whether we want him to lead us (Why would he care? Dude thinks hes a god at mafia, has all but said so on multiple occasions. If he's town he would JUST do it wouldn't he?), and his third question basically sets himself up for lying later anyway (note he never waited or cared if people answered no to this, he just did it anyway, so what was the point in asking>). This is a stark contrast from the AR who just gripped the last game by the proverbial nutsack and did his thing. And even though he was wrong about savant, he was soooo obviously town no matter what, the only person I can see feigning that level of confidence as scum is wylted and maaaaybbbeee mikal.

1B: Compliance: 

Remember last game he complied with his claim immediately when asked. There was none of this garbage about "Whats your guys stance on lying?" etc. As town lying needs to be extremely limited in the first place. The only times I can ever really see a case for it is if town is pressing you early and you have a really strong role thats just not worth risking it for (this is what he is pretending to be the case, but if you add up the facts it actually doesn't make sense). Also its AR. If anyone is going to be absolute crap at lying its him, he was caught multiple accounting back on DDO many times when he was banned because he was so bad at lying. If there's anyone as town who should not be lying its definitely fvcking him. I already caught him in a few lies, and he just keeps admitting that he's doing it whilst thinking its okay. It's not. Town don't lie. Hell if your the town cop and you can't lie I'd rather you just claim cop. Because at this point hes hinting hes a power role anyway, and thus making him a target anyway. The only group he's hurting by not claiming and complying at this point is town. 

Role claim inconsistencies:


He hinted that he was a role akin to black goo, immediately my mind goes to "Hes hinting ascetic" or some other role. Any role that would be akin to black goo would be a role that deters town from visiting him, which he literally claimed anyways earlier: 

"It is in every towny's best interest to not investigate me. It may backfire or be a waste of time."

Then when mikal unvotes him later he says his role is one of 4 things: 

  1. I am innocent child dp3
  2. I am vigilante 1x planning to either np1 or np2, trying to bait out the rb or redirect on the night I dont use it.
  3. I am an even night only arms dealer or similar role.
  4. I am a mason type role.
Literally none of these roles have draw backs to town visiting him. I call him out on this and he admits he lied.

I lied. Wanted to discourage anyone wasting investigations or protections on me and to bluff so mafia feel something. 

This is why I say town shouldn't lie, especially if they are bad at it. He's now been caught lying multiple times, and there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to it, and since hes already admitted to lying, obviously mafia know not to call out his bluff. His lies literally are only helping the scum team at this point. 

This behavior is extremely irrational for any town player, and if was literally anyone else we would be lynching them for it. I don't see why RM would get a pass here for any of this. 
Mharman
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@AdaptableRatman
Listen man 

If you are doing some gambit, you should probably just out everything. Sure you lose the ability to do whatever you’re trying to do, but it’s better than you getting lynched.

Realistically, you can’t have both your gambit and your life at this point. I’m not sure what I’ll do if you keep this up, but I can guarantee the rest of town will just vote you off.
AdaptableRatman
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@Mharman
That is fine. Their loss.
AdaptableRatman
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I refuse to claim until dp3.

On dp3 if I am not confirmed somehow, I will accept being voted off. Fully accept.
Barney
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@whiteflame
You hopped on a couple of hours ago, said you were getting caught up, and then never posted again.
A friend invited me out to lunch, and now we’re attending a Thai festival.

That said, I can’t imagine what information has come out in DP1 to merit 10 pages and counting… So my catchup will inevitably end up being a bit like Swiss Cheese.
AdaptableRatman
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I will fully claim with 0 gambit if:

It is promise to me by 2 other members here that as soon as I out we vote off either Luna or the hydra this DP.
AdaptableRatman
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I want vote between Luna and Earth/Wylted this DP.

That is final.

I will help mafia by letting them know my role and character if it is promised I can force this dp1 and dp2
Casey_Risk
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@Savant
Okay, I speedread through most of the pages made since I was last online. I agree that AR is highly sus, largely for the reasons Mikal and Luna already brought out, but also for another reason that I don't think either of them really pointed out - putting attention on Ultra for very weak reasons (imo). Ultra tends to be one of those players who attracts suspicion easily as either alignment and thus tends to be seen as an easy lynch. I myself pointed this out in the previous game, hoping it would make my own push seem a little less sus.

Ratman's early push on Ultra felt really unjustified to me, however. The outright admitting to lying is also baffling to me. I thought that after the last game, everyone would surely try to avoid the same kind of drama, but I guess I was wrong. All in all, either AR is scum, or he's directly hurting the town by making it impossible to trust him, and for that, I think he should be today's lynch.

Savant, can we get a vote count?
AdaptableRatman
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@Casey_Risk
You are wrong. If I fullclaim will we vote Luna after yes or no
Savant
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Votes:

Ratman (3/5): Lunatic, Ultra, Wylted
Lunatic (1/5): Ratman

Casey_Risk
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@AdaptableRatman
You are wrong. If I fullclaim will we vote Luna after yes or no
Absolutely not. I don't agree with your read on Luna at all. He's a very good scum player but I think I have actually picked up on a subtle difference in his playstyle between town and mafia, and so far I don't see it. 
AdaptableRatman
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@Casey_Risk
I see it. The reason you suspect me makes more sense than any of his faked reasoning.
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@Casey_Risk
If I fullclaim and dont get Luna promised to me ultimately maybe me being voted off is better than forcing both mikal and ultra to die.
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@Casey_Risk
I did claim a really weird role so the suspicion I feel is justified 
Mikal
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You were literally asking for savant and I to be blacklisted over this last game. Just claim man 
AdaptableRatman
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@Ultracrepidarian
Insuspected you before that.

I actually suspected you less after it. Your character is very fitting to mine in multiple themes.
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@AdaptableRatman
Please provide justification for your targets, mainly Luna. I've asked thrice now. 

If you don't I will have no other option but to vote you a third time. Don't try me. 
AdaptableRatman
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No Mikal it is NOT the same. My role will be CONFIRMABLE later (either definjtely or very very probanly)
AdaptableRatman
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@Ultracrepidarian
I have already. I read him as scum.

He is faking his reasoning. He figured Id have a different role because I slightly misled mafia on purpose. That way theyd not know if Im killing them with me or what type of role I have.

Now its more narrowed down. He still keeps at it. He needs me gone badly. He knows I will lead on him all game now. He knows I will be dangerous if left to dp3.
Mikal
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You have actively said you were lying and said there is no reason to never not claim your full role at l1. I can go pull posts but you were actively asking for me to be blacklisted for saying this is what I would do if pressured. I would not do it on this way ever lol. It’s just a bit hypocritical is all