-->
@Fallaneze
This is the same false dichotomy repackaged.If our thoughts and beliefs are predetermined by physics, we are not thinking and believing rationally because physics is not capable of rationally thinking and believing.
This is the same false dichotomy repackaged.If our thoughts and beliefs are predetermined by physics, we are not thinking and believing rationally because physics is not capable of rationally thinking and believing.
Don't shift the burden of proof. You're better than that.
Twoman I thought you were an advocate of no free will?
This is not what I am saying. I am saying that cause and effect are sufficient to explain human agency. You are the one claiming this extra unnecessary undemonstrable thing called freewill.Opponents seem to be saying that having reasons for making a decision means a lack of agency.
I didn't. I demonstrated that it does not violate cause and effect.In what way have you demonstrated that the phenomenon you refer to as choice is not governed by cause and effect?
I didn't. I demonstrated that it does not violate cause and effect.
Cause and effect is compatible with free will.
Mental causation is the idea that intentional thoughts or intentional mental states are causes of intentional actions. The cause is mental and the effect manifests into actions.
Perhaps we can look at what is being affected in this 'cause and effect'.Let's say the effect is a desire for tea rather than coffee. What is a desire? A desire can only be the effect of prior physical casuses if it is itself something physical. So is a desire something physical?
Do you have evidence for your claim that "mental causation is either subject to cause and effect or it is a random event"?
If someone were held at gunpoint and asked if they be shot or the kid next to them be shot, they may choose to sacrifice themselves in the belief that the kid will be saved, but choosing this isn't "desirable." I think the word you're looking for is "preferable."
Do I detect a reluctance to answer the question?This question is irrelevant unless you choose your desires.
Sure. Perhaps no material causation precedes mental causation. Since that is within the realm of possibility, and therefore logically coherent, what's your justification of your claim that 'mental causation is subject to cause and effect or is a random event'?