Friendship ended with Drumpf. Now: Andrew Yang is my best friend

Author: thett3

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RationalMadman
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@thett3
As much as I hate USA and think it's an arrogant bully of a nation, I'd rather it be a stable bully than an unstable anarchic timebomb on the world. So, no, I don't wish that happens. Rather, I hope the Democrats take back hold of the US and that the EU ends up a worldwide union with the UN eradicated as it literally stands for nothing, morally speaking.
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@RationalMadman
Democrats are the foreign bullies though. They are the party of hawkish proxy wars, eliminating stable dictatorships in the middle east, and endless sanctions on people who they just don't like. Neocon Republicans are almost as bad, so wishing Republicans in power isn't much of an improvement at all. Hillary Clinton bragged about how many dictators she toppled.

Why do you want a return to the Bush/Clinton/Obama status quo?
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this kid gets it


RationalMadman
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@Greyparrot
Did you just say Bush and then say Obama and Clinton in the same concept of leadership and foreign policy? 

Literally what the fuck was the question at the end of your post? I can't answer it. If it's Bush you're asking about, I hope the whole family is tried and hung for war crimes and money laundering amongst the many other things they've done.

If it's Obama, guy was mediocre so na not good enough to bring back. If you mean Clinton as in Hillary not her idiot can't-keep-his-dick-in-his-pants husband, then yeah I'd love her leadership because despite being corrupt, she gets shit done and tames would-be enemies like no other Sec of State I have ever seen in the history of the US.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
inshallah the beasts will get their revenge
Vader
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I don't want the gangbangers and the hoodrats to get 1000 dollars a month to buy more drugs and guns to shoot innocent people on the streets



And an universal based income? So then we let the crips and the gangbangers get the same amount as Bill Gates, someone who worked hard to earn that money? Thats fucked up

I guess he would be liked among Dems I guess
Vader
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Ben Shapiro 2020
Greyparrot
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@RationalMadman
Fine, if you want Hillary who would "get shit done" then don't complain about American interventionista policies like sanctions, drone strikes,  or assassinating dictators in the middle east.


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@Vader
Ben can be VP assassination insurance.
RationalMadman
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@Greyparrot
The last of those I am utterly in support of, tyrants are fucking hypocrites who abuse and kill their people like toys and expect no backlash. The other two depends on the situation.
Of course, I prefer to convert dictatorships gradually into social democracies but when against merciless, stubborn tyrants, how can you handle it wtih the least bloodshed?


Greyparrot
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@RationalMadman
Handle what? Drone striking dictator cultures until none are left that can resist democracy? What a thoroughly genocidal ethnocentric worldview. Some cultures just don't work well with democracy. Assimilation at gunpoint? Hitler would be envious of you man.
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@Greyparrot
Cultures that don't work well worth democracy are bullying and torturing those on the bottom end of it so as to sustain themselves. Instead of making a fucking empathy case for psychopaths who don't deserve a shred of it, start to care about the fact that actual victims like the poor, disabled and unusual of any kind that are beaten senseless for their sexuality and whatever else, have noone to save them other than heroes from outside the insane dictatorship.

It's like when people call others rude and outrageously disrespectful for relishing Michael Jackson's death. He was a pedopile who drove two fathers of his victims to suicide as they couldn't bear how helpless they were to it all. Don't fucking dare to call him the king of anything.


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@RationalMadman
People like you would bomb and drone strike the hell out of China if they didn't have Nukes for not being a democracy.
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@Greyparrot
People like you would bend down and do something unsavoury to a dictator the moment he sets foot in your land, then turn around and beg neighbouring nations to save you when you realise there's no reward for what you did to him, hoping they aren't like you and actually want to help.
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@RationalMadman
Let sleeping dictators lie. China is just fine.
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@Greyparrot
No, many in it are working in conditions where one slight tremor and their finger is cut off or something else that severe happens. The compensation? A middle finger to their family saying 'your breadwinner is useless to us now.' and that isn't even the half of it.
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Did you like the finger pun? 
spacetime
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@thett3
I would vote for Andrew Yang over Donald Trump. 

Yang is the only 2020 candidate who has proposed a viable solution to the widespread economic insecurity in this country. I've wavered on this issue a lot in the past, but I think I've finally come to the conclusion that it isn't possible to achieve universal gainful employment. It never has been, and it never will be, regardless of what automation does or doesn't do to labor markets in the future. Ultimately, income redistribution is the only way to ensure a decent standard of living for everyone. I don't support universal basic income as the mechanism for doing that, though -- I prefer negative income taxation because the phase-out would keep the total fiscal cost under control while allowing unemployed people to receive much more than $12,000 p/year.

There's plenty I disagree with Yang on, but none of it is disqualifying. I agree with him on all the most important issues, e.g. economics, healthcare, foreign policy, immigration (kinda), rejection of identity politics (kinda). That's enough to earn my vote.
 
As for Trump, I'm honestly just bored of him. I agree with him on a lot, especially immigration and foreign policy, but he hasn't meaningfully accomplished enough in those realms for me to care. He's a thoroughly ineffective politician.
Greyparrot
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@spacetime
Electing a good president isn't going to make Congress run the country any better.
RationalMadman
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@Greyparrot
What will make Congress run the country any better? What would you replace Congress with to run the country better?
bsh1
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I am going to move this back to politics tomorrow or Wednesday.
Greyparrot
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@RationalMadman
You can't replace Congress because of term limits. A coup is inevitable.
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@bsh1
no!!!!
RationalMadman
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@Greyparrot
And post-Coup what's going to be there instead of it that will be better?
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@RationalMadman
Maybe a Congress with term limits.
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@Greyparrot
Limiting the number of terms members can serve would:

1. Take power away from voters:
Perhaps the most obvious consequence of establishing congressional term limits is that it would severely curtail the choices of voters. A fundamental principle in our system of government is that voters get to choose their representatives. Voter choices are restricted when a candidate is barred from being on the ballot.


2. Severely decrease congressional capacity:
Policymaking is a profession in and of itself. Our system tasks lawmakers with creating solutions to pressing societal problems, often with no simple answers and huge likelihoods for unintended consequences. Crafting legislative proposals is a learned skill; as in other professions, experience matters. In fact, as expert analysis has shown with the recently passed Senate tax bill, policy crafted by even the most experienced of lawmakers is likely to have ambiguous provisions and loopholes that undermine the intended effects of the legislation. The public is not best served if inexperienced members are making policy choices with widespread, lasting effects.

Being on the job allows members an opportunity to learn and navigate the labyrinth of rules, precedents and procedures unique to each chamber. Term limits would result in large swaths of lawmakers forfeiting their hard-earned experience while simultaneously requiring that freshman members make up for the training and legislative acumen that was just forced out of the door.

Plus, even with term limits, freshman members would still likely defer to more experienced lawmakers—even those with just one or two terms of service—who are further along the congressional learning curve or who have amassed some level of institutional clout. Much as we see today, this deference would effectively consolidate power in members that have experience in the art of making laws. In other words, a new, though less-experienced, Washington “establishment” would still wield a disproportionate degree of power over policymaking.

Even in instances where staffers, rather than members, lead the charge in crafting policies, it is often the member-to-member interactions that solidify a measure’s final details, build coaltions, and ultimately get legislation passed. Take, for example, the recent Sen. Graham-Sen. Durbin alliance that has recently proposed a bipartisan immigration compromise. Such a partnership is due in no small part to the pair’s long history—Graham and Durbin served two years together in the House and the Senate for 21 years and counting. Term limits would severely hamper the opportunity for these necessary relationships to develop. Strangers in a new environment are in a far worse position to readily trust and rely on their colleagues, particularly from across the aisle.


3. Limit incentives for gaining policy expertise: 
Members who know their time in Congress is limited will face less pressure to develop expertise on specific issues simply because, in most cases, the knowledge accrued won’t be nearly as valuable in a few short years.

We have seen a semblance of this effect after Republicans limited House committee chairs to six years at the helm. The incentives for chairs to dive deep into the policy details of their committee’s jurisdiction are now limited, given that chairs know they will soon be forced to give up the gavel. (In the 115th Congress alone, an alarming seven House Chairs have announced their retirements from Congress.)

Thus, term limits would impose a tremendous brain drain on the institution. Fewer experienced policymakers in Congress results in increased influence of special interests that are ready and willing to fill the issue-specific information voids. Additionally, a decrease in the number of seasoned lawmakers would result in greater deference to the executive branch and its agencies that administer the laws on a daily basis, given their greater expertise and longer tenure.


4. Automatically kick out effective lawmakers: 
No matter how knowledgeable or effectual a member may be in the arduous tasks of writing and advancing legislation, term limits would ensure that his or her talents will run up against a strict time horizon. In what other profession do we force the best employees into retirement with no consideration as to their abilities or effectiveness on the job? Doesn’t it make more sense to capitalize on their skills, talents and experience, rather than forcing them to the sidelines where they will do their constituents, the public and the institution far less good? Kicking out popular and competent lawmakers simply because their time runs out ultimately results in a bad return on the investment of time spent learning and mastering the ins and outs of policymaking in Congress.
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@Greyparrot
5. Do little to minimize corruptive behavior or slow the revolving door:
Because term limits have never existed on the federal level, political scientists have studied states’ and foreign governments’ experiences with term limits to project what effects the measure would have on Congress. These studies regularly find that many of the corruptive, ‘swampy,’ influences advocates contend would be curtailed by instituting term limits are, in fact, exacerbated by their implementation.

Take lobbyist influence, for example. Term limit advocates contend lawmakers unconcerned with reelection will rebuff special interest pressures in favor of crafting and voting for legislation solely on its merits. However, the term limit literature commonly finds that more novice legislators will look to fill their own informational and policy gaps by an increased reliance on special interests and lobbyists. Relatedly, lawmakers in states with term limits have been found—including from this 2006 50-state survey—to increase deference to agencies, bureaucrats, and executives within their respective states and countries simply because the longer serving officials have more experience with the matters.

Advocates also suggest that limiting the number of terms lawmakers can serve will ultimately result in fewer members looking to capitalize on their Hill relationships and policymaking experience by becoming lobbyists themselves. Establishing term limits, however, would likely worsen the revolving door problem between Congress and the private sector given that mandating member exits ensures a predictable and consistently high number of former members available to peddle their influence. The revolving door phenomenon is considered a normative problem without term limits and relatively few departing members per cycle. With term limits, the number of influential former members would drastically increase, giving more private sector landing spots to members whose time has run out. More lobbying firms would have members able to advance their special interests with former members making use of their relationships and deep understanding of the ways of the Hill.

On the surface, the case for term limits is strong given their potential to curtail the forces of corruption that so many assume dictate the ways of Washington. But, precisely because the creation of successful public policies by even the most experienced of officials is so difficult and uncertain, we should not mandate that our most effective and seasoned lawmakers be forced out of the institution. Instead, as constituents, we should rely on the most effective mechanism available to remove unresponsive, ineffectual members of Congress: elections.


Greyparrot
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@RationalMadman
1. Take power away from voters: 

Total bullshit claim. You can't seriously claim that existing congressmen are not replaceable and are the best people possible in the districts that they serve. If that was the case, why even have periodic elections? Just elect that one special person once for life and save the money.

2. Severely decrease congressional capacity:
Another bullshit claim. You have people in Congress for 30 years as it is that don't even read the legislation they vote on, but they sure can hold a proper fundraiser...

3. Limit incentives for gaining policy expertise:
See #2.. We have people in Congress for 30 years who don't even read the legislation they vote on because they won't suffer any consequences for it. The expertise that matters most in Congress is fundraising and reading poll numbers, and that's it.

4. Automatically kick out effective lawmakers:
See #1. The idea in a Nation of millions that you can not find anyone equally competent is ludicrous. Unlimited terms destroys competition and alternatives and promotes an unresponsive Congress.

5. Do little to minimize corruptive behavior or slow the revolving door:
Quite the opposite. If a person has to go back and return to a world they created with crap policies, then you can be assured that they will give a damn about the policies they are making because it will affect them personally. As it is now, you have career politicians that can go to the grave without ever personally feeling the effect of any policy decision. That's not how you run a responsible Congress. You literally have career politicians like Chuck Schumer on TV with a shit eating grin while discussing things that affect people who don't live in the Congress. They don't care. Not on a personal level. Not when there are fundraisers, foreign trips, and parties to attend.

Greyparrot
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@RationalMadman
Really, the best argument I can use to checkmate you is the fact that the only government branch that seems to be able to get anything done in the last 30 years is the president...who has...you guessed it...term limits!!

Nothing wrong with term limits there.
RationalMadman
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1. Take power away from voters:

Total bullshit claim.
This is a totally bullshit rebuttal.
You can't seriously claim that
I can and the source, I quoted, did.
You can't seriously claim that existing congressmen are not replaceable and are the best people possible in the districts that they serve. If that was the case, why even have periodic elections?
Aside from midterms, do you understand that the parties who choose Congress are themselves elected by the people? 
2. Severely decrease congressional capacity:
Another bullshit claim. You have people in Congress for 30 years as it is that don't even read the legislation they vote on, but they sure can hold a proper fundraiser...
If you are good at what you do for 30 years, you shouldn't lose your job. The Parties who choose them are held in tandem by voters, democratically, and the voters should not be so idiotic as to not consider the Congress that will result from voting in this or that Party's candidate. 
3. Limit incentives for gaining policy expertise:
See #2.. We have people in Congress for 30 years who don't even read the legislation they vote on because they won't suffer any consequences for it. The expertise that matters most in Congress is fundraising and reading poll numbers, and that's it.
That doesn't even remotely touch on the thing that you're replying to, makes.

4. Automatically kick out effective lawmakers:
See #1. The idea in a Nation of millions that you can not find anyone equally competent is ludicrous. Unlimited terms destroys competition and alternatives and promotes an unresponsive Congress.
That defeats itself. If everyone is equally capable of being a good Congress member, then whoever is one is good enough to be it.
5. Do little to minimize corruptive behavior or slow the revolving door:
Quite the opposite. If a person has to go back and return to a world they created with crap policies, then you can be assured that they will give a damn about the policies they are making because it will affect them personally.
You cannot force people to be selfless, you can only force them to consider other people's selfish aims and needs in combination with their own. That's a given even in anarchy.
As it is now, you have career politicians that can go to the grave without ever personally feeling the effect of any policy decision.
With the Republicans almost definitely so, they brutally hurt the poor every time they are in charge and kill their own people and others every time they are in charge, to such a huger extent than Democrats it would actually horrify you to compare it (or anyone who votes Republican at all and/or hates Democrats more).
That's not how you run a responsible Congress. You literally have career politicians like Chuck Schumer on TV with a shit eating grin while discussing things that affect people who don't live in the Congress. They don't care. Not on a personal level. Not when there are fundraisers, foreign trips, and parties to attend.
What precisely has Schumer done that hurts people in a way that he'd hate if he was that demographic?