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@Melcharaz
It's your sentence, I've never even intimated anything like it. Try again.
Paradise _ Then what?
Posts
Total:
146
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@disgusted
thats what im talking aboutSo paradise is just a synonym for nonexistent. I can go for that.
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@Melcharaz
So paradise is just a synonym for nonexistent. I can go for that.
thats what im talking about
Then why did you write this unrelated drivel?
I cannot even fathom how you make sin equal to non existence or even related to it.
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@disgusted
free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.
So paradise is just a synonym for nonexistent. I can go for that.
because you seem to equate nonexistence as similar to either evil or good.
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@Melcharaz
Because you are so hopelessly confused I'll get the butchers paper and crayons.
Your statement read
Paradise most fundamentally defined is being present with the Lord and free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.
Part of your fundamental definition for paradise is
and free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.
Ergo paradise is a synonym for non existence, because non existence is also
free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.
I have been discussing paradise and you see me discussing sin and evil, do you see your disconnect now?
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@disgusted
So basically you are saying existence has value because of evils? Or are you just stating a unrealistic view of such a thing as "Life without evil?"
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@Melcharaz
Life without evil is your unsupportable claim when you admit that man is intrinsically sinful. If there is life in paradise without sin then by your definition it cannot the life of man and must be a different species. These are just your teachings explained to you, including any logical consequences of those beliefs.
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@disgusted
Life without evil is an unobserved claim as far as we are aware of, doesn't mean its impossible. and you are right, man will be a new creature without sin, what mankind used to be in the garden of eden before sin was introduced to his nature.
However it is impossible to have a life without evil if you refuse to believe in God.
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@Melcharaz
I fail to see how not believing in a fictional character created by IPSS can influence whether or not evil exists.
But let's be clear, if your beliefs are true then your god is the creator of evil.
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@disgusted
hey you got it right! the bible says That god makes good and creates evil.
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@Melcharaz
The word is proof enough, if you understood what the word actually is, you might consider the implications when i say the bible is proof. Jesus Is the word of God. If God is true and not a liar, then everything the bible says which comes from God is truth.
This does not answer my questions though does it? The fact is you simply do not know what happens then, once a good godly person receives his reward of reaching paradise and you cannot prove what it is you belive you know.
You have told me that it " was obviously more than rest". I asked how long for? You then added "rest in righteousness and rest from sin", and called this "the main feature", which made no sense and I reminded you that the blood sacrifice of the Christ died to wipe away the sins of the earth. You then further this with:
It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
make no mistake, Christs death gives us the ability to repent and not be bonded by sin. But sin abides in humans still and it will be no more when we reach that place. All sin is gone.
That place being paradise. So do you notice how circular you have made this. I'll explain. I started this thread saying, I have reached paradise - which according to you above "all my sin has gone".
I then ask what then? You said "rest".
I ask then what? And you reply
"rest in righteousness and rest from sin".
So I remind you, I have reached paradise- and as you agree - I have no sin at this stage, so then what happens? and you came back with this:
It is to be present with the Lord Jesus Christ.
but didn't you say at post 71 above that being present with the lord comes AFTER this rest and not during?
After that, it depends on how you got there. if you are a christian or an old testament saint and believed on him before the rapture then you will move from the 3rd heaven, paradise to where jesus and the throne of God is and be the bride of christ.
So it is not at all as matter of fact as you make all this, is it? And the fact is you simply do not now "what then" do you? You see, being AND dying sinless is not enough anymore is it, according to you? There now seems to be other conditions , i.e. there are a lot of "depend's on's - if's, and or's" aren't there?
It is not enough then that we are sinless when we reach paradise , is it, according to you? The fact is you don't know what happens then and are making this up as the questions are fired at you., this is called - blinding it - where I come from. I am not questioning your faith. In fact I quietly admire anyone with this resolute stance, I do, at times wish I could "believe". No, I am questioning your understanding and knowledge of the scriptures.
So no one knows, what then? I didn't think so. Not even the scriptures can tell us what then? Yet the goal of all Christians is to reach this place "paradise" to reside in everlasting love with Jesus but cannot tell us what then? DEAD?
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@Stephen
This does not answer my questions though does it? The fact is you simply do not know what happens then, once a good godly person receives his reward of reaching paradise and you cannot prove what it is you belive you know.You have told me that it " was obviously more than rest". I asked how long for? You then added "rest in righteousness and rest from sin", and called this "the main feature", which made no sense and I reminded you that the blood sacrifice of the Christ died to wipe away the sins of the earth. You then further this with:
once the final judgement is done, God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever, in this, we will share Joy, peace and happiness the likes of which we cannot recieve or comphrend here on earth. or in this mortal and sinful body.
That place being paradise. So do you notice how circular you have made this. I'll explain. I started this thread saying, I have reached paradise - which according to you above "all my sin has gone".I then ask what then? You said "rest".I ask then what? And you reply"rest in righteousness and rest from sin".So I remind you, I have reached paradise- and as you agree - I have no sin at this stage, so then what happens? and you came back with this:
Paradise is in heaven, Yes, all sin is gone. You can repent from sin here on earth, but you will still be sinning, however when you repent the Lord will not find it or remember it during judgement.
Only 1 person died sinless, that is jesus christ, the rest of us have sin in us and we need to repent to be forgiven, repentance and the death of christ keeps us free from being damned as a sinner, but doesn't take away the sin nature.
The whole salvation and where we go is simple and outlined in the bible, Im sorry if you misunderstood what i was saying, ill sum it up brief as i can
We are sinners, if we die, we go to hell and then we wait for judgement. If we accept christ and repent, we die and go to sheol, which is the non tormenting part of hell and we resurrect when the rapture comes. accepting christ doesn't make us sinless, it only makes us to have no bondage to sin when judged. After that, we are with the Lord and all the pleasures and peace and are waiting on everyone else who lives on the earth after the rapture to go through what they go through, then we reign with the lord 1000 years on earth. then satan rebels a final time, then the judgement where we judge the souls and angels according to God's word, then the new heaven and new earth and new jerusalem.
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@Melcharaz
--> @StephenThis does not answer my questions though does it? The fact is you simply do not know what happens then, once a good godly person receives his reward of reaching paradise and you cannot prove what it is you belive you know.You have told me that it " was obviously more than rest". I asked how long for? You then added "rest in righteousness and rest from sin", and called this "the main feature", which made no sense and I reminded you that the blood sacrifice of the Christ died to wipe away the sins of the earth. You then further this with:once the final judgement is done, God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever, in this, we will share Joy, peace and happiness the likes of which we cannot recieve or comphrend here on earth. or in this mortal and sinful body.That place being paradise. So do you notice how circular you have made this. I'll explain. I started this thread saying, I have reached paradise - which according to you above "all my sin has gone".I then ask what then? You said "rest".I ask then what? And you reply"rest in righteousness and rest from sin".So I remind you, I have reached paradise- and as you agree - I have no sin at this stage, so then what happens? and you came back with this:Paradise is in heaven, Yes, all sin is gone. You can repent from sin here on earth, but you will still be sinning, however when you repent the Lord will not find it or remember it during judgement.Only 1 person died sinless, that is jesus christ, the rest of us have sin in us and we need to repent to be forgiven, repentance and the death of christ keeps us free from being damned as a sinner, but doesn't take away the sin nature.The whole salvation and where we go is simple and outlined in the bible, Im sorry if you misunderstood what i was saying, ill sum it up brief as i canWe are sinners, if we die, we go to hell and then we wait for judgement. If we accept christ and repent, we die and go to sheol, which is the non tormenting part of hell and we resurrect when the rapture comes. accepting christ doesn't make us sinless, it only makes us to have no bondage to sin when judged. After that, we are with the Lord and all the pleasures and peace and are waiting on everyone else who lives on the earth after the rapture to go through what they go through, then we reign with the lord 1000 years on earth. then satan rebels a final time, then the judgement where we judge the souls and angels according to God's word, then the new heaven and new earth and new jerusalem.
So you don't know, you cannot prove a single word you have said and like I suspected have made it all up as you went along. You have not a single piece of evidence for anything you say above and instead created more questions. So, although you have given me cause to ask many more questions concerning the above. I will ask only one:
God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever,
Then what?
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@Melcharaz
Paradise most fundamentally defined is being present with the Lord and free from sin, pain, sorrow, death and other such evils.Sin defines its self through disobedience to the law of God. In taking pleasure in the pain, disorder, betrayal, depression and physical pleasure more than the hope, love, brotherhood/sisterhood, joy etc that others experience.
Yes, i know. I consider that to be hell. Not a physical one like hell, hell... but a slow mental torment. I'm not kidding you, going somewhere as you are describing i would consider to be hell. How do you explain this paradox? If it helps, i can explain what i would consider to be paradise.. you can ask me that. But most importantly is this paradox... if i believe in the Bible... i'm living for going to an eventual hell... either one or the other. And i'm sure not only are those things above taken away, i will also be eternal (that makes it hell). I'd maybe visit heaven for like a vacation, as long as i could die a week or two later. If not, that's my literal worst nightmare scenario when it comes to an afterlife.
Again... please press reply so i can see you replied. I'm curious in your opinion on this.
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@Melcharaz
Non existence is paradise according you and non existence is the result of death.
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@disgusted
you have no understanding of non existence nor is my belief have anything to do with non existence, don't assume you know what you are talking about when it comes to paradise, you are the one asking me right? So either believe what i say or walk away.
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@Melcharaz
You have an exceedingly high level of unwarranted hubris for someone who's world is predicated on the belief of fairy tales.
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@Melcharaz
God will create a new heaven and new earth and we will be in the new jerusalem and we shall be with the Lord forever,
Then what? What will "we" be doing?
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@Stephen
be with the lord forever.
at least, those who believe on him. I wouldn't say "We" from your point of view unless you are willing to believe and repent.
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@Stephen
So , the question then is then: for those that manage to get to Paradise, then what? What happens then? What's the point of paradise?
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
PARADISE ! yes, on TV it is presented in the Sandals Resort ADS...which show happy couples luxuriating in an idyllic setting complete with
all the amenities for experiencing all things healthy and orgasmic !
BUT NO....not for the RIGHTEOUS CHRISTIAN PARASITE ! these pathetic hypnotized and enslaved Church drones will be entering another
concentration camp to beg for salvation and not go to HELL all while surrounded by millions of other Christian IDIOTS all wanting to be with "GOD"
like groupies of a PUNK ROCK BAND...they just won't go away...POOR GOD ! he is drowning in demands by millions of pathetically mind and
former life molested sheeple drones.....
You think this boy JESUS clown will be standing at the GATES of HEAVEN...the Disneyland of Christianity with arms open ! Hahahaha IDIOT !
YOU...? some pathetic dumbed down Church bozo.....who always did as the Church and Bible verse VOMIT Comic Book demanded....and NOW
WHAT ? you have arrived ! behind the gate where JESUS awaits you is the land of plenty ! YES, all of your psychotic family is waiting to suck
you into their world for eternity....a billion years with mommy and daddy ! and uncle, and cousin, and sister, ++++ how wonderful ! all together in
the same house on HEAVEN AVENUE....an exact duplicate of the other 2 billion that await the rest of the CHRISTIAN LUNATICS....
Thank YOU JESUS ! for keeping these pathetic mind and life molested CHRISTIAN creatures locked behind the gates of HEAVEN ! forever !
With billions of galaxies and Trillions of worlds for all the NON Abrahamic JEW - JESUS - ALLAH GOD ..thinkers..to explore and discover
nothing could be more satisfying then knowing all of these Abrahamic GOD garbage sheeple drones will be in one place...prevented from
contaminating the Galaxy and beyond.....PRAISE JESUS...and throw away the KEY....after they are all locked in....HEAVEN ! good riddance
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@Stephen
Then what? What will "we" be doing?
Bro... he's just another broken record theist. He doesn't have a good answer... only what he can repeat. And thinks the rest of us should just accept that's heaven bc who wouldn't right? It's "heaven" ... he doesn't even understand it's not necessarily the word "be with the lord" that is important here.. it's the term "forever." I don't know about you, but i get a chill down my spine even thinking that could be true. It's literally worst case scenario.
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@Melcharaz
Believe and repent to your god... so i can go to hell? Why do you keep running instead of trying to understand your heaven isn't heaven?believe and repent.
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@Melcharaz
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?
at least, those who believe on him. I wouldn't say "We" from your point of view unless you are willing to believe and repent.
But my sins have all be paid for and wiped away "with the blood of the Christ" , have they not?
You don't seem to catch on that when you make such profound statements based on your faith, you paint yourself into a corner and then you try to escape with another profound statement.
Simply show me where in scripture it tells us that the two crucified alongside the Christ repented on the cross and confessed and repent their sins and confessed their "belief"?
To my knowledge, one mocked him telling him to "save himself "and the other simply said words to the effect that the Christ Jesus "didn't deserve to die because he had done nothing wrong". But even so, they, according to scripture were promised this:
Mark 23: 39 - 43
39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
You see, there is nothing there at all that states what you will have us believe. You insist one has to be "willing to believe and repent" to get to paradise, yet you have not shown any evidence, were as, I have shown you evidence that appears to the contrary. So can you explain this; why it is that some get a free pass whereas others do not?
With numerous versions of the Bible. I'm waiting for The (Tell it like it is version) TILIIV I think would be a best seller.
In The ( TILIIV ) version every scripture is replaced with The Top three responses/Meanings of the scripture
You could make like a cheap ( 10,000 TILIIV ) Bible. In this Bible 1000 high up religious folks and 9000 basic follower theists are asked,
What does this scripture mean?
The scripture will then be taking out and replaced with the top 3 responses for.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?
For example, like as above
Instead of Mark 23 : 39 - 45 reading. And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Instead of this, it will read.
4566 Christians* if you believe in the Jesus God, when ya die you will go and live with him at his totally awsome crib.
2891 Christians* when you die, you get to stay at the MAGNIFICENT, five star ***** HEAVEN PARADISE RESORT. All expenses paid.
Eternity days and eternity night stay.
1002 Christians* if you spend you life doing everything god wants you to do, when you die, JESUS HAS YOUR BACK.
the very second you die Jesus is like, HEY HI MAN. grab ya shlt and come live with me at my joint.
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@Stephen
Only if you accept it and repent of your sins.But my sins have all be paid for and wiped away "with the blood of the Christ" , have they not?
Mark 23: 39 - 4339 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.You see, there is nothing there at all that states what you will have us believe. You insist one has to be "willing to believe and repent" to get to paradise, yet you have not shown any evidence, were as, I have shown you evidence that appears to the contrary. So can you explain this; why it is that some get a free pass whereas others do not?
He did believe and repent. He believed Jesus was the son of God and confessed that he had sinned and was worthy of the crucifixion he was experiencing. he then asked for Jesus to remember him.
He fulfilled all the requirements for repentance, humilty, admission of Guilt and sin, recognition of Christ, Asking for Mercy.
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@Melcharaz
He did believe and repent. He believed Jesus was the son of God and confessed that he had sinned and was worthy of the crucifixion he was experiencing. he then asked for Jesus to remember him.
Let us see your evidence for that then.
He fulfilled all the requirements for repentance, humilty, admission of Guilt and sin, recognition of Christ, Asking for Mercy.
And your evidence for that is ?
But my sins have all be paid for and wiped away "with the blood of the Christ" , have they not?Only if you accept it and repent of your sins.
Your moving the goalposts again and adding the "depend's on's - if's, and or's" , AGAIN!.
and you have swerved this question AGAIN!
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?
Did you miss this? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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@Stephen
being with the lord
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@Melcharaz
Then what? What will "we" be doing?be with the lord forever.
Doing what? What will those from among mankind and have remained sinless and "walked in the way of the lord" actually be doing?Did you miss this? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^being with the lord
You simply do not know do you. You come here preaching truth and telling us how fkn "sinful" we are and accuse me of "not understanding" and yet you cannot answer a question that christianity has had over 2,000 years to come up with an answers. I bet your god is ashamed of you, or at least your teacher, either way, you have done both a great disservice.
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@Stephen
this attempt to undermine me because you don't understand "Being" in the spiritual context is laughable.
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@Melcharaz
this attempt to undermine me because you don't understand "Being" in the spiritual context is laughable.
Don't be silly. I have no intention of "undermining you". I want to know the answer to a question that you should know. But you don't.
you don't understand "Being"
I understand the word "being" and I understand the word "with". I want to know what I will be doing while I am "being with the lord"? I was "being with my grandchildren" yesterday and we were doing lots of things.
So stop ignoring and whining about me not understanding and attempting to "undermine you".