Paradise _ Then what?

Author: Stephen

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#121
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@Stephen
@Melcharaz
Chritianity arose amongt a group of people who were generally poor and had pretty hard lives.  The paradise they were promised is not described in any detail, but for such people almost anything would be an improvement!

in Revelation we read:

"Never again will they hunger;
    never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,
    nor any scorching heat.

So Paradise was originally conceived as more about the absence of the hard aspects of the daily life.   It is only in more modern times (when ordinary life is not too bad) that mere release from grinding poverty and the endless toil needed just to survive is not enough reward.


#122
Goldtop
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@Melcharaz
in the spiritual context
In other words, the context of whatever is invisible and undetectable that has never shown itself to exist, yet somehow you have special knowledge that we don't have?

#123
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@Goldtop
Yes if Melcharaz doesn't admit to it.
#124
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@keithprosser
Chritianity arose amongt a group of people who were generally poor and had pretty hard lives.  The paradise they were promised is not described in any detail, but for such people almost anything would be an improvement!

in Revelation we read:

"Never again will they hunger;
    never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat down on them,
    nor any scorching heat.

So Paradise was originally conceived as more about the absence of the hard aspects of the daily life.  
A positive contribution to the thread, nice to see


It is only in more modern times (when ordinary life is not too bad) that mere release from grinding poverty and the endless toil needed just to survive is not enough reward.
This could be hedonistic, a heathen's interpretation, generally filed under product of sin.  It betrays a deeply flawed or fundamental misunderstanding to the faith.  Could we call it satanic?  Heaven, is not considered to be understood as a reward.

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#125
Stephen
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@keithprosser
So Paradise was originally conceived as more about the absence of the hard aspects of the daily life.  

Nice opinion. But we are talking dead people  in a place called paradise, by all accounts.


But christianity teaches that paradise (which simply means walled garden) is an actual place where good, dead,  sinless people reside.  As spoken by the Christ. Luke 23:43

The paradise they were promised is not described in any detail, 

But a place all the same.. I just want to know what it is that those sinless enough to reach it will be doing in this place apart from "being with" the lord. 
#126
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@Snoopy
Heaven, is not considered to be understood as a reward.
isn't it?
"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

"Be glad in that day and leap for joy, for behold, your reward is great in heaven For in the same way their fathers used to treat the prophets.

considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.

"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

etc.

#127
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@keithprosser
Nope, and those are clearly referring to a reward, within Heaven, which is the state in which the Kingdom of Christianity resides after death

Using Mathew as an example in the brief subtopic, upon opening your bible you'll note it is in reference to people who endure persecution in the name of the Lord, stating that through such an event they can ultimately rejoice, but, besides the topic of heaven,  the persecution and consequential reward a goal of Christianity?  Obviously not...Its in reference to a just and loving god, and through God's grace Christians may act in kind and rejoice to their good fortune.  Honestly, I can't do perfect justice to the message, but hopefully that is an acceptable contribution
#128
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@Snoopy
As an atheist I'm loath to discuss this as if it was a reality!  

From the beginning of Christianity its teaching was there is an existence after death which can be pleasant or unpleasant,  albeit without being over-specific on the details!   The pleasant afterlife was conditional, but yet again the scriptures are vague (even contradictory) about what the conditions are!  

In relation to the OP, AFAiCT neither scripture nor tradition makes it clear what life in heaven is supposed to be like.





 

#129
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@keithprosser
As you might have noticed, I'm hesitant to go into the depth of the entire history of Christianity for the sake of this topic.  For all intents and purposes, we do not need to know the mechanics of heaven from a Christian standpoint.  Heaven is already laid out for us, and all you have to do is get back up if you happen to fall.  This is in true love not lust.  In reference to condition, it is not possible to earn your way into heaven so I don't see why anyone would expect there to be a list of steps or something.  I suppose theological concepts could be complicated within the church, but the religion seems to be intuitive even to a child.
#130
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As the philosopher Bill Murray would say, "so I've got that goin for me"  In simple terms Christians may accept this niceness (Christ), and through the grace of God are saved.  The people who are saved end up in Heaven, "which is nice"

One might ask, what is the point without love?  Assuming heaven is something which is not deserved but brought about by true love.  If you won't accept that then, well, there may be nothing even God can do for you
#131
Melcharaz
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@Goldtop
yep and it only comes through having the holy spirit, which requires subjection to God.
#132
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@keithprosser
the psalms puts it better "In his right hand are pleasures evermore"
#133
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@Melcharaz
"In his right hand are pleasures evermore"
That's what she said....

#134
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@Snoopy
Your god has preordained whether you go to heaven or hell, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it. Of course none of it is true, the consequence of death is non existence.
#135
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@keithprosser
Somebody's gotta do it.  Thanks Keith

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#136
Stephen
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@Snoopy
 For all intents and purposes, we do not need to know the mechanics of heaven from a Christian standpoint.

Is that because no one has a clue as to what the "mechanics are? I only want to know what goes on in paradise. Do people just hang around wandering aimlessly wishing they were back, alive on earth and "doing something!?
Or is it as Melcharaz says,  just " being with" the Lord, and nothing else?


it is not possible to earn your way into heaven. I don't see why anyone would expect there to be a list of steps or something. 

There isn't any list of conditions at all is there, if we are to believe Luke 23:39-43.  And staying with Luke one doesn't even have to "earn" a passage either unless one includes rebuking someone  in Jesus' defence and up you go. Sorry if this sounds flippant, but I am quoting scripture here.


 I suppose theological concepts could be complicated within the church, but the religion seems to be intuitive even to a child.

 I hate emojis  but it is at times like this I wish we had a  - head dropping dead weight onto a desk - smilie. I would even settle for head in hands.




#137
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@Melcharaz
having the holy spirit, which requires subjection to God.
So, you answer a question regarding your claim of something that has never been shown to exist with something else that's never been shown to exist.

This fantasy you have in your head, does it have any facts in there, you know, something that's actuall part of reality?

How can I have the "holy spirit" when no such thing exists?
How can I be subjected to a God that doesn't exist?

Or, can you actually show me they exist in order to fulfill your empty claim?

#138
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@Snoopy
the religion seems to be intuitive even to a child
You mean a child has yet to develop critical thinking skills that would allow them to criticize Christianity rather than accept its claims without questioning? I think they call that indoctrination.

#139
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@Goldtop
No, and I consider a link between the fresh outlook of children and the experience of elders to be a vital aspect of societies that lends both ways.  That is, parents should be learning from their children, and vice versa.
#140
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@Snoopy
Obviously not...Its in reference to a just and loving god, and through God's grace Christians may act in kind and rejoice to their good fortune. 
Yes, I'm sure the quarter million people, many of them Christians, are rejoicing their good fortune of losing their lvies in a tsunami, right on the very day after Christs birthday. Indeed, their families and friends were rejoicing as well, all very happy they went to heaven that day. What a just and loving god. Happy Birthday, Jesus!

#141
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@Snoopy
parents should be learning from their children
Some children never learn and grow up indoctrinated just like their parents. Others who do actually learn usually wind up leaving Christianity as they learn it does more harm than good. Their indoctrination being only part of that great harm.

#142
Melcharaz
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@Goldtop
If it were strictly fantasy then how is it you are unable to accumulate the same knowledge? is my compacity for "Imagination" greater than yours and just somehow fits logically with reality?   Get the holy Ghost and you will see for yourself whether its "fantasy" or not.   

also there is scientific proof of it, don't believe me? google it.  researchers have published works about it.  And if you choose not to, the burden of non proof is on you.
#143
TheRealNihilist
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@Melcharaz
If it were strictly fantasy then how is it you are unable to accumulate the same knowledge? 
Through passing of stories. For example passing on the Bible
Get the holy Ghost and you will see for yourself whether its "fantasy" or not. 
The holy ghost doesn't exist so if my mind can imagine it. I'll come back to you but I have better things to think about. It is not even worth fantasying.
also there is scientific proof of it, don't believe me? google it.  researchers have published works about it. 
You said there was proof but are not able to provide it. You have not fulfilled this therefore it is a null statement. Do bring in evidence next time you think there is scientific proof. Evidence is required for proof.

#144
Goldtop
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Melcharaz (EtrnlVw) claims....

how is it you are unable to accumulate the same knowledge

It isn't knowledge so there is nothing to accumulate. Knowledge means "knowing" which means there has to be facts. You have not offered any.

Get the holy Ghost and you will see for yourself
I and everyone else on the planet can no more get your "Holy Ghost" than they can leprechauns or unicorns. These things have to actually exist in order for anyone to get them. Don't you understand that simple concept?

there is scientific proof of it
That is an obvious lie. Please don't treat us like little children.

And if you choose not to, the burden of non proof is on you.
And, isn't that so convenient for you, to lie about something and then tell me I have the burden of proof.

It would appear you really don't know what burden of proof is all about. Maybe you should google that?

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#145
Stephen
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@Melcharaz
Get the holy Ghost and you will see for yourself whether its "fantasy" or not. 

Where from?    
#146
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@Stephen
ABRAHAMIC... ????...........A Comic Book Series.... featuring the JEW GOD of MOSES.....invented 1400 years before the JESUS HOAX...then 600                                                   years after the JESUS boy GOD hoax was murdered by ROME per the JEWS demands...some illiterate MUHAMMAD                                                   ARAB guy has his version of the "(Moses meets GOD moment")  and VOILA !   ALLAH is the GOD of GODS !   

THE TRUTH of Abrahamic RELIGIONS =  All 3.....JEW - JESUS -  ALLAH... are human invented fabricated Comic Book HOAXES...all 3 are STOLEN
                                                                    and TWISTED versions of other GOD stories and Religions of the Middle East region going back 3000 
                                                                    years BEFORE the JEW God shows up !  let alone the JESUS and ALLAH GOD invented GARBAGE...


The TIMELINE of history over the last 10,000 years proves beyond any doubt how the JEW - JESUS - ALLAH GOD hoaxes ARE nothing more than 
twisted versions of other GODS in human history...GODS ?  thousands of them have come and gone just like COMIC BOOK CHARACTERS...the
difference with the ABRAHAMIC GOD GARBAGE is how world class PSYCHOPATH MIND and LIFE MOLESTERS use them as SCAPEGOATS
to enslave the masses of deliberately DUMBED DOWN human ASSES....

THE RESULT....= Unprecedented DEATH and DESTRUCTION using the JEW - JESUS - ALLAH GOD invented HOAXES to THIS DAY !

None of the CON ARTIST VAMPIRE SCUM  Religious Circus Clowns in Halloween Glory Gowns is concerned with HUMAN and EARTH
WELL BEING..these are OLD MEN acting like a GOD...playing games with the minds and lives of others for POWER and CONTROL

these HUMAN Bible/Torah/Koran spewing PARASITE VAMPIRES are the greatest THREAT to HUMAN - ANIMAL - EARTH....they despise the
OPEN MINDED curious HUMAN and demand total OBEDIENCE to horrifically OBSOLETE and OPPRESSIVE DOGMA they invent and attach 
to their FAKE GOD HOAXES....

Sadly due to the HYPNOSIS PSYCHOSIS these Parasite GOD preaching VAMPIRES induce using FEAR - INTIMIDATION - VIOLENCE as TOOLS
in the name of their totally ASININE God invented HOAXES...the weak and feeble minded humans fall for the ILLUSION that they will SUFFER for
all eternity when they DROP DEAD..unless the SERVE the PARASITES without question..including the MURDER and TORTURE of all who do not
accept and OBEY them.....

So...where the FCK IS THEIR GOD ?  to save these pathetic creatures under the spell of the Parasite VAMPIRES they serve first ?   NOWHERE

All 3 Abrahamic GOD HOAXES remain INVISIBLE and OUT OF TOUCH....what a SCAM....

SOLUTION ?   YES....relegate these 3 STOOGE GOD hoaxes to MYTHOLOGY like they have done to all the other GODS humans invented...
...like ZEUS...ODIN....APOLLO...and thousands more who are no longer USED as GODS by the Parasite VAMPIRES for power and control

.......NO HUMAN EVER needs to be validated and approved to EXIST and DIE by some Parasite VAMPIRE preacher in a Halloween Glory Gown
who plays GOD but ...eats...sleeps...sits on a toilet...and DIES like all other humans...WHAT a DISGUSTING JOKE on HUMANITY these Clowns
of the Abrahamic GOD HOAXES truly are....

Save HUMANITY and EARTH by ridding the planet of these 3 Abrahamic DISEASE...GOD inventions...reduce them to the Comic Book GARBAGE
they truly are and FORGET....going forward....as humanity has done with all the other GODS and RELIGIONS before them.....