Seriously: Where Is The Outrage? Where is the Western Media?

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  • keithprosser
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    --> @Stephen
    If they wish to butcher one another  over a ISLAMIC "religious" issue then who is the west to interfere.

    One has to give in and relinquish an "religious" authority that is impossible to relinquish in the case of the secular conflict of Shites and Sunni
    You seem amibivalent whether the sunni/shia conflict is religious or secular.

    I suggest it is neither - it is tribal.   Sunni and Shia, Christian and Muslim, Sharks and Jets are just sides.  The NZ shooter didn't check on the theological position of his victims and Lee Rigby was not asked for his views on the trinity before he was murdered.  The killed were 'on the other tside of an us/them divide' and that was all that was mattered.

    It is rare I think AnalSpec has a point, but elsewere they wrote:

    Humans aren't logical, in this regard. These in-group bias feelings evolved; they're not conscious thoughts. 

    I think you err in blaming Islam and verses in the koran for what is going on.  What is going on is the exploitation of people's natural loyalty to their own group and anagonism to others.  Ordinary people don't get anything out of it... yet they kill each other to do little more than exchange one ruling elite for another, often for the worse.

  • Stephen
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    --> @keithprosser
    You seem amibivalent whether the sunni/shia conflict is religious or secular.

    That is because some call ISLAM a "religion" and I do not, because it is nothing more than a bad idology You can call it tribal "religion" . It all comes to one thing.  The difference of opinion among MUSLIMS has deadly consequences .Muslims are butchering each other over what THEY may call a religious issue. I hope that clears that up.

    Just to remind you of the title of this thread:


    Where Is The Outrage? Where is the Western Media?


    No Keith, the violence I am concerned about - and  the one you know full well that I am talking about -  is the violence committed by muslims against those who do not accept (submit) to Allah and his so called prophet and who do this through terror.  I don't care about Muslim on muslim violence that is for them to sort out.
    Christians world wide are the most persecuted, killed and ethnically cleansed religious group on the planet.  So far in 2019 there have been 453  terror attacks BY MUSLIMS in which 1,956 people have been murdered. 
     
    4,305 Christians were murdered by muslims BECAUSE OF THEIR FAITH   in 2018 alone!

    And these atrocities committed by muslims terrorist against christians go largely unreported by western mainstream media.  
     The fate of the Rohingya muslims was all over the western world for weeks as will this NZ atrocity.

    But look how quick they are putting the very recent Netherlands Utrecht tram shooting by a Turk on the back burner.  Funny how this came on the back of Erdogan's damnation of the west, no doubt an apologist  such as yourself will simply call this a coincidence. No out pourning for the dead from across the world for these white westerners. Almost silence on by the western media. 

    You know full well i am right , because you're far too much of an apologetic coward to even admit it.



  • Stephen
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    --> @keithprosser
     Lee Rigby
    Was murdered and nearly beheaded by Muslims: Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale as they quoted verses the Quran. Yes, that wonderful instruction manual inciting murder of anyone not Muslim.

  • Greyparrot
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    The western media is very ethnocentric though. The media elites believe western culture is a global culture that allows equality between all cultures, as ridiculous as it seems, and that tribalism should never exist in western cultures.

    This is why they are outraged when tribalism happens in western cultures, and they do their very best to suppress and condemn any form of tribalism in western culture.

    What is hilarious is the recent surge among radical left millenials to promote tribalism through indoctrinated critical race theory and intersectionality. The media elites are about to go to war with the radical left now to suppress their tribalistic culture. It's going to be glorious. Thank you Trump for speeding the process up.
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Stephen
    That will be in the Islamic sphere of things. Muslims can even get outraged and violent over cartoons and novels, you know.
    Yeah i know, that's what i mean... we would have to be outrage everyday over their crap. I'm kinda glad the news only covers selective outrage. 
    Unless, if they were going to show it all the time, i think then in that case i would be sick of the killing and hope for America to just go over and kill everyone. I mean, what else can we think. If we see their killing everyday in the news... it will be overwhelming. It is overwhelming which is why they really do need to figure their crap out. I'm saying this as a Persian / Azari (Turk). I said, well my parents thankfully said, F* off we are going to America. Why? Bc they be crazy over there. 

    That is an opinion and a poor one at that.
    It is a poor one as you copied it, and i probably didn't expand. I mean the majority of the US population has no idea what's going on there. Most will ignorantly be outraged over maybe the right thing and likely the wrong thing. I personally, being from that part of the world... understand it a little more clearly. It is bw Sunni's and Shia's... but you have to understand that's not it. There are multiple splinters within both those beliefs as well. Everyone thinks they have the correct translation and others don't. It's similar to Christianity. Imagine the Christians going to war. The Mormons going to war with the Catholics, the Catholics with other Christians, on and on. That's a bigger picture of what's going on but there is even more political, social, etc. But i do think there religious text is primarily the catalyst for their more violent acts. 

    One of Yassines complaints is he blames  western interference. 
    Again i was a bit vague. He is right, and he is wrong. Western interference has done some good, but it also has done some bad. Do you think the uptick in heroin use in America when we invaded Afghanistan was a coincidence? Sure, we went int to save some people, but guess what... they produce i think 90% of the world's opium. It's a win / win. So, i don't think America's interference is all good. I think there is some good, and there is some bad bc people are greedy A*holes. Overall, i don't think American interference will ultimately fix their issue... they need a reform or an enlightenment period. The problem needs to be fixed ground up... not forced. But us being there does do some good as you explain in lives saved... just don't forget there is bad too.   
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Greyparrot
    The media elites are about to go to war with the radical left now to suppress their tribalistic culture. It's going to be glorious. Thank you Trump for speeding the process up.
    Well... i also sorta have a theory. I think the Dems want to ban rifles so the gangs realize they are the only ones with the superior weapon now. Bc of course the only people giving up their rifles will be the law abiding... maybe not all (thankfully and i hope i live around one... wink wink you'd be living around one if you lived by me) but i think a bit of people will if it's a felony or something. But in this scenario, now the gangs know they have the superior weapon with range while others only have pistols. And what are gangs mainly comprised of, black and Latino Americans. Can you say... maybe that could be the catalyst to a race war? Idk, just a theory (hypothesis if we're being technical). 

    But i also do concede that Dems just want to ban Rifles bc they look scary... i would bet 95% of them never even touched a gun. 
  • KingArthur
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    --> @Outplayz
    It is definitely because the guns looks scary.

    No one ever wants to regulate shotguns, which I would argue, could cause the same if not more damage in an enclosed space as a rifle during a mass shooting.... since that is what they use as the basis for their anti-gun rhetoric. 
  • Outplayz
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    --> @KingArthur
    No one ever wants to regulate shotguns, which I would argue, could cause the same if not more damage in an enclosed space as a rifle during a mass shooting.... since that is what they use as the basis for their anti-gun rhetoric. 
    Or handguns (except for my stupid state "Cali" is trying with there stupid rules of micro chipping) handguns, that account for so much more death by firearm, like 80% or higher, i can't remember at this point. But you're right, shotguns would be just as effective. Actually, rifles that are bolt action (308 and the like) but allow you 10 rounds with a detachable magazine, legal even in my state, with a handgun for backup... you would tear through people. They would beg to make the AR, pinky .223, legal again.

  • Stephen
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    --> @Greyparrot
    What is hilarious is the recent surge among radical left millenials to promote tribalism through indoctrinated critical race theory and intersectionality. The media elites are about to go to war with the radical left now to suppress their tribalistic culture. It's going to be glorious. Thank you Trump for speeding the process up.
    10/10.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Outplayz
    It's similar to Christianity.

    No it isn't nothing like Christianity. Nowhere will you read in the Christian New Testament the Christ instructing his followers to go out into the world and rape, butcher, maim and murder people IN HIS NAME  for not being Christian as does the Muslim quran.

    Imagine the Christians going to war.

    They have been to war in the past, But  "religion"  was not the a reason used to justify those wars. WWI & WWII had nothing to do with religion.  Here in the U.K there have bee sectarian conflict in Ireland where there seems to be an uneasy peace at last.  And there is still sectarian animosities in Scotland , but rarely does it spill over into violence except now and again on the football terraces. 


    The Mormons going to war with the Catholics, the Catholics with other Christians, on and on.

    That is because of the word  - civilised.


    But i do think there religious text is primarily the catalyst for their more violent acts. 

    Then you do not understand the makeup of this vile ideology. Muslims will and do live and die to achieve the ultimate goal of Islam.   These are facts.

    In March 1997 Peter Arnett interviews bin Laden, who says the goal of jihad is to exalt God’s word (the Quran) to the heights, in other words, until the message of his Holy Book goes around the world.

    Quran 8:39
     And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.


    Quran 51- You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed,he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

    Jihad has never stopped. It may have abated for a while now and again, but it has never gone away. The worst thing that ever happened to reignite Islamic jihad against the west was Russia losing to  Afghanistan. Once that conflict was over, muslims around the world believed then that it was Allah's will,  that had given them a "great victory" a "super power" and that they were now were capable of taking on the "great satan" itself: the USA. They, led by bIn Laden couldn't have been more misguided. What the Russians couldn't do in ten years the Americans did in just ten short weeks.

    But I have to keep reiterating this thread is concerned with the bias of western media when it come to Muslims and Islam. 

    Two young Scandinavian girls were butchered and one beheaded because it was "Allah's will" and it hardly got a mention here in the U.K.


  • Outplayz
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    --> @Stephen
    No it isn't nothing like Christianity. Nowhere will you read in the Christian New Testament the Christ instructing his followers to go out into the world and rape, butcher, maim and murder people IN HIS NAME  for not being Christian as does the Muslim quran.
    You should work for the media :p You are pretty good at taking me out of context. Everything i said about Christianity was an example/analogy to what is happening in Islam... not that Christians are like that, although they sorta were at times, but def. not today. I wasn't saying any of that, so i'll skip your next comment reply about Christianity. I was giving an example using Christianity not saying that's what it is. 

    Then you do not understand the makeup of this vile ideology. Muslims will and do live and die to achieve the ultimate goal of Islam.   These are facts.
    Again where did i say that isn't one of their goals. Also, it's one goal not shared by all Muslims. But it is enough to be concerned about sure. You have to understand how these two religions have splintered among themselves (illustrated by the Christian analogy). One group by themselves isn't violent, they are actually following the good part of the Koran. Bc it's a community and everyone agrees with what they have. It's when these communities meet other communities that say, "well no... i have the correct translation and you don't" is where the violence can begin. But this history of it all is all irrelevant and kind of just a courtesy by me to show you a little more into what i understand about the area. 

    The main point your making is why doesn't the media cover these things. 1) A lot people don't understand what going on over there; 2) that's just not how the media works; 3) The media can't cover everything... there is only so much time they have to show things and so many people they have to cover / write it; 4) i truly think most Americans could care less unfortunately therefore ratings would drop and they'd lose money... losing money is a key one too; and of course 5) they want us selectively outraged towards their agenda's. Like "a guy uses an AR 15 to kill churchgoers in NZ" then headline a few days later "NZ prime minister (or whatever he's called) says he will ban 'military style weapons' after shooting." Sounds pretty selective and perfectly fit in the agenda now doesn't it... 
  • Stephen
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    --> @Outplayz
    You are pretty good at taking me out of context. 
    I apologise. It is truly not intentional. Unfortunately, such is the nature of internet forums where without facial expression and emphasis of the voice it is at times so easy for this to happen.

    Also, it's one goal not shared by all Muslims
    I agree, there simply must be many muslims who care not what is written in the quran , have never read the quran and aren't even religious. Just as there are many Christians (those christened at birth) who do not follow the faith or have read the bible and are not religious in the slightest. But I won't bore you with the in's and out's of Islam. 
     But let me tell you, not all Germans were Nazis. Most Germans were peaceful. No Nazis were in the minority, but it didn't stop this minority causing the deaths of 60 MILLION! men women and children of which 14 million died in death camps. So my point is that for those who do not share the common goal, those being the  peaceful, are irrelevant.

    they are  following  the good part of the Koran

    Which is?


     (1)The main point your making is why doesn't the media cover these things.

    It is, and that Western MSM seem to be in FKN denial that muslims do not do anything at all to cause such vile retaliation against innocents, from a single manic "right wing" individual. Our world leaders insist Islam is a religion of peace when it clearly is not.

    Some home truths about the Christchurch mosque New Zealand.
     
    "In 2013 two Jihadis Were killed in an U.S led airstrike in the Yemen. 2014 it was reported that one of the parents claimed that her son and two friends were radicalised by Muslim Extremist in the Christchurch Al Noor Mosque. .
    After spending a lot of time at the mosque, themen travelled to Yemen and trained alongside the Charlie Hebdo terrorists". - We have to note here that this was reported back in 2014 almost five years BEFORE this terrible and vile slaughter of innocence at Al Noor.

    And no one did a thing about it.  It isn’t as if the parents had just recently come out and said this in the wake of the NZ attack. MSM did not mention the background of this Christchurch Al Noor mosque in the wake of  this attack. That would have been balanced.
     
    A Kiwi lad's death by drone
     
     
    It has alsobeen discovered that one occasion an Indonesian Muslim Sheik was brought tothat same mosque to preach Violent Islamic Jihad to the local ChristchurchMuslim community. .
     
    “A mosque attendee was quoted as saying that "a visiting speaker from Indonesia talked about violent jihad and plenty shared his views, although mosque leaders denied radical teaching took place".
     
    Hate Preaching and radicalisation at a holy Mosque!? Never!  Well you can imagine my shock!
     



    (2) A lot people don't understand what going on over there; 
    Dare I say it but that is a large assumption on your part.

    (3)that's just not how the media works;

    No they operate with deceit and denial and bias when it comes to Islam/muslims.

    (4)The media can't cover everything... there is only so much time they have to show things and so many people they have to cover / write it;

    Lame excuse. What MSM practice is extremely clear bias. It is never ever balanced when it comes to Islam and islamic terror. these are facts and as I have already pointed out, MSM did not mention the background of this Christchurch Al Noor mosque in the wake of  this attack. That would have been balanced.


    . Like "a guy uses an AR 15 to kill churchgoers in NZ" then headline a few days later "NZ prime minister (or whatever he's called) says he will ban 'military style weapons' after shooting." Sounds pretty selective and perfectly fit in the agenda now doesn't it... 

    Yes this is called addressing the secondary problem when it is the first that has to be addressed but never is. They have all turned into cowards since the Charlie Hebdo massacre by muslims.  They were quick to give some of the reasons behind this guys attack on this mosque but never ever do they admit or even ask why muslims murder for Islam.  

     Please watch this when you have five minutes.


    Douglas Murray on governments dealing with the secondary problem

  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Stephen
    The whacky thing is how much the MSM left media is willing to embrace such a conservative cult of Muslims just to give the shaft to rural whites. 

    The enemy of the MSM's enemy is their friend.
  • Stephen
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    --> @Outplayz
    But i do think there religious text is primarily the catalyst for their more violent acts. 
    Sorry Outplayz,  I misread you when you wrote the above and I replied:
    "Then you do not understand the makeup of this vile ideology. Muslims will and do live and die to achieve the ultimate goal of Islam.   These are facts".

    My reply should have  been that you are quite correct.  It is the quran  that millions of the 1.5 billion adherents, listen to and take as the word, the very last word - of Allah. Included in these texts is the actions of Jihad of which there are over 100 verses verses encouraging and instructing violence against the unbeliever who will not "submit " to Islam. This verse makes it quite plain what they - muslims - should do to achieve Islams goal.

    Quran 8:39
     And fight them until there is no fitnah and[until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.

    Of course not all muslims will act upon these words but hundreds of thousands of the 1.5 billion muslim adherents will and do and have.
  • Alec
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    --> @Stephen
    I think it's because the media hates Christianity and loves Islam.
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Stephen
    No Nazis were in the minority, but it didn't stop this minority causing the deaths of 60 MILLION!
    I agree with you there. A minority of people can do a lot of damage if left unabated. 

    Which is?
    Firstly, you can't say there is "no" good parts in the Koran. It's a book of morals that even shares some with the other Abrahamic faiths. When it comes to the bad stuff, it all comes down to who is interpreting it. If it says "stone your wife bc she cheated on you" or something... i would take that as a metaphor not literal. I would tell my wife it feels like i want to stone you bc you cheated on me... key being that's how it makes me feel vs. literally doing it. With that said, there is also very dangerous text in the Koran. Especially those relating to leaving the faith. They will forever kill each other if one group to the next thinks the other group is a traitor and infidel. There are of course a lot of other parts of the Koran i don't enjoy reading. Only a person really really trying to make it peaceful and can think outside the box can. But just reading it as a normal person that can't see grey areas... it's very dangerous text. 

     Our world leaders insist Islam is a religion of peace when it clearly is not.
    Well for the majority it technically is... but i do agree with you they shouldn't obfuscate the matter by calling it that bc there is a minority that prove it's not a religion of peace. And any person reading the Koran by themselves, at face value, wouldn't conclude it's a peaceful religion. The first time my aunt read it, she said, "Holy F* hell, this is the religion they been trying to get me to believe." It was hilarious. 

    And no one did a thing about it.
    I really want to get all conspiracy theory on this point, but who knows... maybe they just missed it. Or, maybe they wanted to ban rifles and let it happen. This world is pretty F* up man. 

    Dare I say it but that is a large assumption on your part.
    Yes and no. I've asked many people if they know what Sunni and Shia are in conversations about this topic and most had no clue. Now, that's not a true study, but it's something. So dare i say, how many people do you think know the difference? Or even know there is two sects? Out of ten i would say maybe 1. 

    No they operate with deceit and denial and bias when it comes to Islam/muslims.
    I agree the liberal type way is too nice, but i would also say the conservative way is a little to forceful. 

    Yes this is called addressing the secondary problem
    I'll watch the video. But yeah, this last point is the most important. They are bias. They will cover some attacks but not all. Mostly those that also address American law too. Like the CharlieH. massacre. That was horrible bc it was an attack on free speech. They knew that would rile up the American population. It's just so clear they are trying to push an agenda, and at the same time push what makes them the most money. I'm sure you see it too... they show things that trigger Americans which is good for their pocket and agenda. Rarely do they show something random. I think they've noticed that when they do, they don't make that much money on it... bc if they did, they would be showing it all the time. 

    Of course not all muslims will act upon these words but hundreds of thousands of the 1.5 billion muslim adherents will and do and have.
    Yeah it's sad... like you said, a minority can cause a lot of pain. Anyone reading that text without someone that is an apologist to interpret can't escape how violent it is...

  • Stephen
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    --> @Outplayz
    Firstly, you can't say there is "no" good parts in the Koran.

    There are, but what one should  realise is that "the good parts" apply to Muslims ONLY. i.e how to treat your neighbour with honesty, kindness and politeness, etc,etc. But >>>>

    Look>> Quran 51- You, who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact]allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you – then indeed,he is [one] of them.

    The intolerance of other faiths in the verse above shows very clear hatred, urging followers of Islam not to make friends with the (dirty) Kuffar,_ the nonbeliever.


    It's a book of morals that even shares some with the other Abrahamic faiths.
    I don't agree and I won't bother you for chapters & verses to support what you say. I have said, anything that reads as "good parts" or "moralistic" only applies to those of the muslim faith. 


    When it comes to the bad stuff, it all comes down to who is interpreting it.

    Really? So would you be so kind as to interpret what is meant by the verse Quran 51 above and this verse:

    Quran 8:39
     And fight them until there is no fitnah and until the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.


    If it says "stone your wife bc she cheated on you" or something... i would take that as a metaphor not literal. I would tell my wife it feels like i want to stone you bc you cheated on me... key being that's how it makes me feel vs. literally doing it.
     Well maybe a civilised person, or a Western person would interpret it as such but  there millions of the 1.5 billion Muslims in the world who will not agree with your interpretation and you know it.

    With that said, there is also very dangerous text in the Koran.


    Which are instructions to murder, rape, convert and enslave anyone who is not a muslim.



    Especially those relating to leaving the faith.

    I am glad you mentioned this. There is an Iranian apostate (he converted to Christianity) who has been seeking asylum in the U.K. since 2016. He has been refused by the BRITISH HOME OFFICE on the grounds the Christianity is not a religion of peace. The penalty for this "religious crime" is death.

    The UK also has refused a CHRISTIAN Pakistani woman - Asia Abibi refuge here in the UK - after serving 8 years in prison for blasphemy.  After serving 8 years was eventually found not guilty and released but this hasn't stopped a baying  muslim mob wanting her death and the death of all her relatives. This is how the blasphemy laws in islam are "interpreted".  The reason our Prime Minister gave for the refusal was - "the risk of raising tension among the UK's  muslim communities". 

    They will forever kill each other if one group to the next thinks the other group is a traitor and infidel.
    And this is a point that all muslim apologist simply will not admit. And the penalty for apostasy is death and the quran calls for the death of all infidels..


    There are of course a lot of other parts of the Koran i don't enjoy reading. Only a person really really trying to make it peaceful and can think outside the box can.

    That someone sounds to me  like he would have to stretch the truth a very very long way. And muslims and their apologists do  this often.

    just reading it as a normal person that can't see grey areas it's very dangerous text. 

    It is an EXTREMELY dangerous text, and I am pleased that you acknowledge that. and that is my WHOLE point. I am not attacking muslims as many here like to say and believe I am (prosser)


     It is islam that I have a problem with.

  • disgusted
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    --> @Stephen
    4,305 Christians were murdered by muslims BECAUSE OF THEIR FAITH   in 2018 alone!
    You have a very simplistic understanding of the world, perhaps you can explain the 39,773 fatal shootings in America in 2017.

  • disgusted
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    --> @Stephen
    Stone your disobedient children to death.
    That's not from the Quran, fuken violent and disgusting though.
  • Outplayz
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    --> @Stephen
    Really? So would you be so kind as to interpret what is meant by the verse Quran 51 above and this verse:

    Quran 8:39
     And fight them
     until there is no fitnah and until the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
    I would simply replace the word fight with debate. It's really fruitless bc the most violent parts of it i can interpret kindly bc i am a kind and non-violent person. But i fully understand there are people that are not kind and are violent. They would not read it how i do. And, given the context if you are reading it all the way through... peace basically came through war. So, it is actually logical to say i'm wrong... i would be the one forcing it to be innocuous. 

    I'm in absolute agreement with you it's one of the most dangerous religions out there. Then again, i think religion is dangerous in general. Even if Christianity has gone through an enlightenment, there are many people that aren't very enlightened and can even misconstrue that text to do violence.

    I'm agnostic and think there is a chance there is a spiritual reality... but i'm sure it's not the Abrahamic version. They are all flawed and clearly written by humans which is why they have the potential to make other humans violent. How can fallible humans write a perfect text of beliefs? They can't... bc they are greedy, power hungry, etc.

    My uncle is also agnostic but with less confidence of spirituality than i have... but we both always say it's only religion that can take a good man and turn that man evil towards the world. That is actually really scary. Other faiths think they have it good right now. They went through an enlightenment and they are good. I call BS on that. How do they know a few generations down, those humans don't say "you're enlightenment is against god, you are interpreting incorrectly." Then they start to kill each other. Religion is just dangerous in general man. It scares me in more than just one way. 
  • disgusted
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    --> @Outplayz
    "NZ prime minister (or whatever he's called) says he will ban 'military style weapons' after shooting
    Obviously "educated" and resides in America, the poor unfortunate.

  • Stephen
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    --> @Stephen
    Really? So would you be so kind as to interpret what is meant by the verse Quran 51 above and this verse:

    Quran 8:39
     And fight them
     until there is no fitnah and until the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed,Allah is Seeing of what they do.
    I would simply replace the word fight with debate.


     Saying you would "replace" a word is not actually interpreting the verse  now is it. But it is impossible to alter  the last words of Allah "due to its divine nature" . All muslims understand this perfectly and this unfortunately is their dilema.

    It's really fruitless bc the most violent parts of it i can interpret kindly bc

    Wishful thinking. See above bold underlined.





    i am a kind and non-violent person. But i fully understand there are people that are not kind and are violent. They would not read it how i do.

    Maybe, but the word " debate" for instance does not appear in that intolerant and divisive verse Quran 8:39, does it?

    peace basically came through war.
     It does as a rule, but as I have pointed out already, Islamic  jihad may abate now and then but it doesn't go away. Isis, it is said, has now been utterly defeated in Syria "it is no more"  say the headlines. That would be nice if it was true. they though have been successful enough to move their operations to Europe. This now is going to be a massive issue for Europeans and the UK, as  if it isn't already with over 20,000 returned jihadis on the islamic terrorist watch list.

    Even if Christianity has gone through an enlightenment, there are many people that aren't very enlightened and can even misconstrue that text to do violence. 
    You have a valid point, but the difference is The Christ does not instruct his followers to go out into the world and rape and murder IN HIS NAME  and there isn't anything that could be interpreted that way to my knowledge, but the quran does instruct its adherent to go out and kill for Allah and his goal  I remind you: "until ALL religion is for Allah" Quran 8:39

    I'm agnostic and think there is a chance there is a spiritual reality...
    There may well be. 
    but i'm sure it's not the Abrahamic version.

    Me too. And neither do Jews. they do not stone adulterers any more do they. the do not throw Homosexuals off roofs or burn them in cages anymore do they?

    They are all flawed and clearly written by humans which is why they have the potential to make other humans violent.

    They are. But be careful saying Allah's word "is flawed". 

    How can fallible humans write a perfect text of beliefs? They can't... bc they are greedy, power hungry, etc. 
    Neigh on impossible, I would say. But I will stress ,The New Testament does not promote violence towards anyone who doesn't accept Jesus. For some reason Christians simply like to ignore the fact that Jesus was a Jew: king of the JEWS, in fact, not Christians. . Even the Romans recognised this.

     How do they know a few generations down, those humans don't say "you're enlightenment is against god, you are interpreting incorrectly."

    Well they say that now don't they. Even you have suggest this yourself when bring up "interpretation".



     religion ....It scares me in more than just one way. 
    Some (keith prosser and co)  would call you religiophobic for that statement .  But, islam scares me and with good reason but they call me an "islamophobe" , and throw in "racist bigot"  now and again. They just do not want me to fear Islam, but give me absolutely no reason not to. That is the type of apologist that I and others like me are up against.
  • keithprosser
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    --> @Stephen
    As an avowed secularist I have a lot of problems with Islam.  Reigion is bad enough in the west, but it is even worse when it has real political power as it does in much of the Muslim world.  

    My problem with you, Stephen, is that I don't believe you when you claim your problem is only with Islam, not at all with Musims.   You always present Islam was 'our' enremy, not the enemy of all mankind.   You ask where the outrage is - well there's not a lot of outrage when a mosque is blown up in Basra  or Karachi either.   We are, as as a species, parochial and tribal in out outlook.  Nationalsm, racism, islamophobia, even sexism are all sides of the same thing,

    I don't care how many Christians have been killed by Muslims and vice versa.  I think we should add the two numbers together to see how dumb tribalism is.

  • Stephen
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    As an avowed secularist I have a lot of problems with Islam. 

    I do too. I have reason to fear it. But I am not allowed to be afraid of it ( so I am an "islamophobe") and I am not allowed to say why I fear it ( because that is  spreading hate) and that is because of people like you, prosser
     


    Reigion is bad enough in the west, but it is even worse when it has real political power as it does in much of the Muslim world. 

    Oh FFS tell us something we don't know . 

    My problem with you, Stephen, is that I don't believe you when you claim your problem is only with Islam, not at all with Musims.

    I cannot help what you believe of me. I don't care what you believe of me. What you believe of me you have made your  own problem. 

      You always present Islam was 'our' enremy, not the enemy of all mankind.  

    READ VERY SLOWLY!!!!!   ISLAM- is the Enemy of anyone NOT muslim , you clown. You know this but try to avoid this fact.


    You ask where the outrage is - well there's not a lot of outrage when a mosque is blown up in Basra  or Karachi either.  

    I did ask you that  on another thread here>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1527 so I will re post your replies here on that thread also;  but that said, theres has been no outrage concerning the Christian churches in Syria and Nigerian, nope nothing from the western media or you.. But stop trying to conflate the issue here .  I asked you where is the outrage from the UK muslim community when terror attacks happen here in the UK and you again have failed to answer  me. You have NO FKN answers to anything I say. And this fact just pisses you right off so you attack me instead. You are a buffoon..



    We are, as as a species, parochial and tribal in out outlook.  Nationalsm, racism, islamophobia, even sexism are all sides of the same thing,

    So? 

    I don't care how many Christians have been killed by Muslims and vice versa.
    I do.


      I think we should add the two numbers together to see how dumb tribalism is.

    Is that your first attempt at FKN "bridge building"

  • keithprosser
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    No. But maybe i'm trying touild a bridge with you.

    I take it you don't want to resolve the issue with a blood bath.  You might even eventually come to the concusion real problem is tribalism and extremism of any and all stripes, not Islam.