Should Bsh1 be replaced as head mod if mods were selected democratically?

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03.30.2019 06:33PM

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@Ramshutu

You were not talking to me or at me, you were talking about me on my thread in a way that is insulting, humiliating and justified by nothing other than assertions. The motive was to get other people to pile on me and make me feel really shitty for daring to make a thread like this. It had zero constructive purpose, not even to defend bsh1. You have no reason to be loyal to bsh1, this was solely about hurting me.

Get over your petty motives and stop assuming I'm a thin-skinned pussy. I am sensitive because I pay attention to criticism and praise which is something this head mod of our should actually do, instead of being thick-skinned enough to ignore all complaints about the way he runs things. That is a toxic attitude to have, stop encouraging 'thick skin'.

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03.30.2019 06:38PM

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@RationalMadman

Sure, the questions are clear. Would you like me to lay them out and show you how mockingly he responds and gets others to bully me into silence?

I am guessing you haven't even confronted him with questions. Go right ahead and then provide evidence to counter his claims.

I said this as well

"You made the claim why aren't you backing it up with evidence?

Unearned glory? Do you have proof of this occurring? I don't see it anywhere in this forum.

Instead of accusing bsh1 why didn't you ask him questions in order to understand his side? Then you can provide counter evidence to state the contrary if you can. "

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#33

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03.30.2019 06:39PM

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@TheRealNihilist

I have. Even in this thread, I did. Just because it doesn't have a question mark after each one doesn't mean I'm not giving him much to answer for.

#34

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03.30.2019 06:40PM

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@RationalMadman

I have. Even in this thread, I did. Just because it doesn't have a question mark after each one doesn't mean I'm not giving him much to answer for.

While also not providing to support your claim.

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#35

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03.30.2019 06:42PM

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@TheRealNihilist

What has he done to ever become the chief moderator, let alone keep his role? Go ahead, let me know.

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#36

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03.30.2019 06:43PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Reversing BoP outside of formal debates against someone so utterly proficient at them is a good try, but I never will give in. You don't understand who has to prove what first here (or you are denying it).

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#37

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03.30.2019 06:43PM

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@TheRealNihilist

I cannot prove what he is not doing, but I'll start making the threads he should be making soon.

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03.30.2019 06:51PM

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@RationalMadman

What has he done to ever become the chief moderator, let alone keep his role? Go ahead, let me know.

Why are you shifting the burden of proof to me?

Reversing BoP outside of formal debates against someone so utterly proficient at them is a good try, but I never will give in. You don't understand who has to prove what first here (or you are denying it).

You made the claim by making this forum post. I did not reverse the burden of proof when you haven't even fulfilled yours.

I cannot prove what he is not doing, but I'll start making the threads he should be making soon.

So prove what he has done. I am sure your problem is with the lack he does so prove everything that he has done so that the readers know how little he has done for the site. All I see in this forum page are claims. Claims without evidence.

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#39

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03.30.2019 06:51PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Dude, this is about what he has failed to do. What he has done is easy to cover up as moderation is always done in private.

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03.30.2019 06:55PM

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@RationalMadman

Dude, this is about what he has failed to do. What he has done is easy to cover up as moderation is always done in private.

Thank you for the conspiracy. My advice keep it to yourself and ask for a voting system only in order to get your way. You are not getting anywhere making conspiracies instead wait for a voting system. I don't know if there is one or when you can vote for someone but just focus on that. Leave your conspiracies out of this website. It makes you look bad.

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#41

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03.30.2019 06:56PM

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@TheRealNihilist

No one in this entire thread except you, who is brand new here and knows nothing about the past of this site very clearly, has suggested I am lying. they've mocked me perhaps and defended Bsh1 based on other angles like 'democracy won't work' but no one else has said I am lying or need to provide evidence (not even Virtuoso, the Admin or Bsh1 said this). So, you're the one with the conspiracy that I am making a conspiracy.

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03.30.2019 07:02PM

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@RationalMadman

No one in this entire thread except you, who is brand new here and knows nothing about the past of this site very clearly, has suggested I am lying.

Do you have evidence?

but no one else has said I am lying or need to provide evidence (not even Virtuoso, the Admin or Bsh1 said this). So, you're the one with the conspiracy that I am making a conspiracy.

Why should anyone take you seriously about bsh1 taking all the credit when both bsh1 and Virtuoso deny it and you have no proof of them lying?

This is a conspiracy and if you want to keep going on with it. Go right ahead. You have yet to provide evidence so your claim is as good as mine. bsh1 is not taking credit for what Virtuoso has done. Do tell me how I am wrong.

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#43

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03.30.2019 07:03PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Virtuoso doesn't deny anything I said in the OP. Bsh1, so far, hasn't denied it either and the latter has actually posted in this thread.

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#44

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03.30.2019 07:05PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Oh you mean him taking credit for Virtuoso's work? Alright, you're correct I can't provide evidence for that and if you want to call it a conspiracy that's hilarious. Virtuoso officially didn't do what Bsh1 is taking credit for, so from an official perspective it's correct. It has to all be run by Bsh1 to be 'officially done' so it's de facto true what you're saying. This is about the delay and how the only part of it Bsh1 is doing is the ending while Virtuoso is handling every single thing a Chief Moderator has to on top of it, without getting the credit as Bsh1 genuinely gets the credit.

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03.30.2019 07:09PM

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@RationalMadman

Virtuoso doesn't deny anything I said in the OP. Bsh1, so far, hasn't denied it either and the latter has actually posted in this thread.

Next post have the comment recieved to Virtuoso and bsh1.

Type in "Do you agree with what I said right at the start of this forum?"

I am not taking they didn't say anything therefore they agree as a reason why you are right. I want confirmation from both they agree with what you said.

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03.30.2019 07:10PM

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@RationalMadman

Oh you mean him taking credit for Virtuoso's work? Alright, you're correct I can't provide evidence for that

What can you provide evidence for?

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#47

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03.30.2019 07:10PM

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@David

@TheRealNihilist

Would you two kindly PM one another about this, as I know you (Virt) hate to talk ill of bsh1 in public.

#48

Ramshutu

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Ramshutu

03.30.2019 07:13PM

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@RationalMadman

Actually, I was intentionally mocking you because this is mostly another one of your overly dramatic pseudo-meltdowns: and the idea that someone with the temperament, and propensity to both leap to unwarranted conclusions, and lash out (as you’ve done here), is frankly laughable.

As I intimated. Bsh is a grown up, he has a thick skin, he has given me no indication that any decision hasn’t been thought out, and measured: whereas most pitchfork threads all appear to give the impression that they are being driven by typical internet butthurt and rage.

Bsh has my respect and support here because, frankly, he deserves it. He’s authoritative and more mature than 97% of the people here - including me, and the only problem I have with him right now, is that he’s not online as m

I am also not in the habit of treating threads like this with any respect - they are contemptuous appeals to ego, and attempt ferment discord and drama. There is sometimes a time and a place from dealing with things in public when time is of the essence, but here - not so much.

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03.30.2019 07:18PM

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@David

@bsh1

Do you agree with what RationalMadman said at the start of this forum?

This can be answered with a simple yes or no.

If answered no then the burden will be on RationalMadman to provide evidence that proves his point.

If answered yes then I'll apologise to RationalMadman and refrain from speaking about this subject.

Thank you in advance.

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03.30.2019 07:18PM

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@Ramshutu

Actually you're the only one who lashed out in a nasty, sadistic way where the intention was purely to make the recipient feel humiliation and pain. My motives were not only different but you cannot show me in my OP where I said anything directly insulting as opposed to raising concern of the guy who has the power to influence this site more than any other user at present and what he's been doing so far in terms of work ethic and displayed motives.

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#51

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03.30.2019 07:19PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Can you please ask them to elaborate on the yes or no, since they may disagree with the replacing but not with other things I said.

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03.30.2019 07:21PM

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@RationalMadman

No. You could have asked the question yourself but you didn't.

If you think my question is not what you like it to be ask your own question.

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#53

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03.30.2019 07:23PM

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03.30.2019 07:23PM

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@TheRealNihilist

Okay, I want to see Virt's answer as I know Bsh1 will simply say 'no' and be vague on why and post a 'laughing at you' type meme image if probed further (this isn't the first time he's posted such an image or reacted that laidback to me about how terrible he is at moderating and undeserving he is of his position).

#54

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03.30.2019 08:31PM

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@RationalMadman

@TheRealNihilist

What is MEEP?

This is a good example of a MEEP: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/1492 Lemme know if you have any questions about the process.

What is a MEEP fatigue

I would liken it to voter fatigue. There are users who might be, or perhaps already have become, disinclined to participate the more MEEPs there are. Spacing MEEPs out thus affords users a break from the process, allowing them to use the site without the intrusive announcements or the attention-diverting threads.

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03.30.2019 08:35PM

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@Goldtop

Even Poly is still here after all her vile content

Poly was recently issued a lengthy ban based on numerous interactions and conversations I have had with her over recent weeks. I think it is nearly universally clear that it her conduct was deteriorating and totally inappropriate. One cannot follow other users around calling them "pussy sock puppets." As vivid as that imagery is, it clearly constituted harassment and was dealt with as such, in context with numerous other observed infractions.

#56

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03.30.2019 08:47PM

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@RationalMadman

Bsh1, so far, hasn't denied it either and the latter has actually posted in this thread.

I think it's clear that in late January I went through a period of abnormally reduced activity due to IRL constraints on my time. One of the advantages of having two mods is that, when sh*t hits the fan, you have someone who can take over temporarily; as Virt did for me. I would do the same for him if he needed it. The ability of someone to temporarily step back is not a flaw in the system, but a reasonable adaptation to manage the competing obligations which we all have. Literally any workplace in the world does this--whether it be through sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, or something else entirely.

Before and since that period of reduced activity, I have been online every day, and--as I am sure other users could attest, were they willing to do so--I have been handling reports and dealing with issues of user misconduct. Most of my activity occurs behind-the-scenes (after all, only the user that receives a warning from me knows that such a warning was ever issued). That you do not see me working is not proof that I am not working. That being said, such things as Poly's ban are evidence of my behind-the-scenes activities. Frankly, I like the behind-the-scenes approach, largely because it produces less drama and minimizes my interference in day-to-day user experience on the site. So, yes, I do deny your allegations; they're spurious and based largely on an absence of understanding regarding how most moderation activity occurs in venues not visible to you.

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#57

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03.30.2019 09:01PM

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@bsh1

Of course, of course. You can say you're doing a ton of work behind the scenes DAILY (hilarious) and I am the conspiracy theorist for being unable to provide evidence to prove a negative.

Just know that I am never ever going back on the promise I made you when I came out of that 2-week ban. You are lucky Mike is fond of you and that Virt is not just fond of you but so diligent that he is willing to take all of my PMs, Ramshutu's PMs and debate-comments chasing to take down the most severe multi-accounter of the website (no, not nd although I doubt you worked more than virt on that but who knows) and let Virt be the handler of absolutely everything from day one (yes it was as early as that) to now. From when I was being harassed by SamStevens in the forums, to when Laddy had gotten people to truly abusively gang up on me until I snapped, Virtuoso was the mod who showed empathy for the victim of abuse and who took Drafterman seriously and you who constantly sat (and still sits) back cackling at any like me and showing nothing but uncaring ambivalence on anything significant on the website, only ever putting in effort to make the one raising the issue seem discredited instead of focusing on yourself and what you are doing to Virtuoso due to his naivety and work ethic and what you're doing as a whole as a chief moderator to the userbase as a whole.

You can sit there laughing at the fact that you haven't been dethroned by this but do not be confused; the Admin and Virt are starting to see the truth in what I'm saying whether they admit it or not in public. Your authority here is not as untouchable as you think, and the evidence isn't about you having been defended here, that is nothing but smokescreen from people who wanted a dig at me. The userbase is losing faith in you and your oligarchic prowess is loosening. Just know that.

#58

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03.30.2019 09:12PM

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@RationalMadman

he is willing to take all of my PMs

So, basically what you're saying is that Virt is doing more because he talks with you more? That's hardly a compelling argument. As you know, I do reply to your messages when appropriate; that I am not ebullient or talkative when conversing with you is certainly not evidence that I am lazy or shirking my responsibilities as a mod.

Just in the past ten days, for example, I have handled more than 100 discrete reports; issued warnings (sometime multiple) to more than 6 users based on reports that I've handled; banned or unbanned three users; and called the police to ensure a wellness check for a user who posted a suicide note.

I hardly think, then, I am being lazy in the fulfillment of my obligations to the DART community. But, ultimately, that is for the usership to decide; in the meantime, I would prefer to keep doing my job instead of having to respond to groundless accusations like this, which are rooted more in flawed cognitive heuristics than a rational evaluation of the evidence.

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#59

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03.30.2019 09:18PM

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@bsh1

Of course. It's only me, with everyone else you're chitty chatty... Oh wait, no. You're not as you're a behind-the-scenes type and prefer it that way as it avoids drama. Oh wait no, sorry you are and it's just a conspiracy theory by me. Gotcha.

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