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@Mopac
Or maybe I would if you said what you mean plainly instead of using doublespeak mysticism.
Happy zombie Jesus day everyone!
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@secularmerlin
The Supreme and Ultimate Reality is God.
How can I be more lucid?
You have no argument against this God, that is why you wish it wasn't this.
Truly, those who receive not the love of The Truth are cursed with strong delusion.
This is why Christianity takes the form of allegories and parables. Why it takes the form of a mystery religion. Why we educate initiates this way and reveal the Mystagogy after catechesis. Because when you speak plainly, those who hear are shown to be deaf, and those who see are shown to be blind.
Christianity is Truth worship. That is the big secret.
Killing the incarnation of Truth in this world does not kill The Truth. Conquering death by death, The Truth will draw all unto it at the last day.
To the glory of God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit, amen.
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@Mopac
Ok well habe a nice day. Of you ever figure out the problem with your arguments and get done better ones let me know.
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@secularmerlin
When you stop arguing and start listening with the intent of getting understanding, let me know.
That's nice. Let me know if you actually become interested in debate. Have fun with your proclaiming.
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@secularmerlin
I'm not the one debating against something I not only do not understand, but am unwilling to understand.
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@Mopac
You say we don't understand but don't actually try to help us. What are we supposed to do say you are right without understanding what you are saying?
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@TheRealNihilist
Some people say seeing is believing.
In this case where the seeing are blind, it is necessary to believe before seeing.
When I am saying that Christianity is in essence apodictic truth, that means that once you understand it, not only is it obvious but it is undeniable.
Christianity is a mystery religion, something that is lost in the heterodox world. The Christianity you have likely been exposed to is unenlightened. It is not Orthodox Christianity. As that is the case, if you don't abandon preconceptions, we are working with salted Earth, a poisoned well.
So forget what you know, and here is the foreshadowing I will give you. The Truth is God. Yes, literally what that means. Not what anyone thinks The Truth is, not a collection of facts, but The Truth itself. By The Truth, I mean The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. The Most Real. The Truly Existing One. Actuality The Way it Is.
Everything about Christianity has to do with this, how we relate to this as creatures, and the discipline of abiding in it. Our religion very simply is Truth Worship.
If you don't believe me, you will never see. Instead, you will have superstitious ideas about my faith. Then, you yourself being superstitious will project your own superstitions on to the faith itself.
To give an illustration, asking that I prove God exists or to prove that God is truth is like asking, "Prove to me that it is true that there is truth! Prove that truth is truth!"
If you don't believe in truth, how can I prove truth to you? What is being asked of me is to show a sign. Perform a miracle.
Don't say, "I will believe it if I see it."
Believe first, and then you will see it.
Some people say seeing is believing.In this case where the seeing are blind, it is necessary to believe before seeing.
Yes trust your senses. Not the most grandiose idea ever.
When I am saying that Christianity is in essence apodictic truth, that means that once you understand it, not only is it obvious but it is undeniable.
Once I understand it. Do tell me that part.
Christianity is a mystery religion, something that is lost in the heterodox world. The Christianity you have likely been exposed to is unenlightened. It is not Orthodox Christianity. As that is the case, if you don't abandon preconceptions, we are working with salted Earth, a poisoned well.
Nothing about understanding it.
So forget what you know, and here is the foreshadowing I will give you.
That is not possible. I rely on what I do in order to get correct conclusions. If I abandon what was won me debates I am basically saying I don't want to be right.
The Truth is God. Yes, literally what that means.
How did you get to that?
Not what anyone thinks The Truth is, not a collection of facts, but The Truth itself. By The Truth, I mean The Supreme and Ultimate Reality. The Most Real. The Truly Existing One. Actuality The Way it Is.
So is your position that the truth is that God is the supreme being or is it that God is both truth and the supreme being?
Everything about Christianity has to do with this, how we relate to this as creatures, and the discipline of abiding in it. Our religion very simply is Truth Worship.
You are basically saying I should remove my understanding that has worked in replace of something that I don't that works and you have not shown it to work. That is the problem and with what I use currently you still haven't provided a good argument for it. You have provided your experience. If that is the case why should I take your personal experience instead of another Religious person's experience?
If you don't believe me, you will never see. Instead, you will have superstitious ideas about my faith. Then, you yourself being superstitious will project your own superstitions on to the faith itself.
So either you use truth and belief as the same word or you want to simply accept what you are saying just because you said it and if that was the case then yes I would see the "truth" but that is because I have no standard only whatever the Bible says must be true because that is all I have now if I did what you do. Is my stance wrong?
To give an illustration, asking that I prove God exists or to prove that God is truth is like asking, "Prove to me that it is true that there is truth! Prove that truth is truth!"
If God is truth you would be able to point where it is. Remember seeing is believing. The burden of you is to provide everything true in this world has a connection to God.
If you don't believe in truth, how can I prove truth to you? What is being asked of me is to show a sign. Perform a miracle.
So now something can't be truth on its own it would require my belief. You haven't actually provided a good argument instead said drop whatever you use now and join what I am doing.
Don't say, "I will believe it if I see it."Believe first, and then you will see it.
Why should I take your advice over a Jew or Muslim?
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@Mopac
Ok well have fun with your proclaiming. You sure seem to have a lot of it to do. Look at you staying busy. Good job.
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@TheRealNihilist
If you would respond to my post in full rather than breaking it in pieces, I would appreciate it.
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@TheRealNihilist
If it is all about "winning debates", I'm sure you are a master of many persuasive techniques.
However, if you care about truth, your approach is more conducive to strife than learning.
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@Mopac
If you would respond to my post in full rather than breaking it in pieces, I would appreciate it.
I argue against specific points. I quoted what was I was rebutting. If I didn't then you would have to figure what I am opposing asking or something else.
If it is all about "winning debates", I'm sure you are a master of many persuasive techniques.
If you mean making a better argument than my opponent more persuasive then yes I am very persuasive.
However, if you care about truth, your approach is more conducive to strife than learning.
You weren't helping with learning. You want to remove want I learnt or un-learn it so that I can accept your "truth". With pretty much any other case I can learn with prior knowledge I had but guess your version of Christianity is different.
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@TheRealNihilist
I argue against specific points. I quoted what was I was rebutting. If I didn't then you would have to figure what I am opposing asking or something else.
The only thing I am seeing is someone who can't avoid interrupting someone when they are talking.
And as you are talking in terms of "rebutting", I have further evidence that proves to me that you are more interested in looking smart than listening.
But fyi, it doesn't matter how good a teacher is(not that I am even claiming to be a good teacher) if the student doesn't respect the teacher, they won't benefit.
I can't make you learn anything.
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@Mopac
Your faith is by definition superstition.Instead, you will have superstitious ideas about my faith. Then, you yourself being superstitious will project your own superstitions on to the faith itself.
noun
excessively credulous belief in and reverence for the supernatural.
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@Mopac
The only thing I am seeing is someone who can't avoid interrupting someone when they are talking.
How can I interrupt you when you are allowed to reply with that comment without me stopping you?
And as you are talking in terms of "rebutting", I have further evidence that proves to me that you are more interested in looking smart than listening.
Rebutting is required in order to know which side is better than the other. If you say I am looking smart (whatever that means) then pretty much every debate consists of people looking smart. Even Christians don't leave them out. So basically Chrisitans also look smart instead of listening. I would say this is a false dichotomy but I don't you even care about me "rebutting" your claims because you think it makes me look smart.
But fyi, it doesn't matter how good a teacher is(not that I am even claiming to be a good teacher) if the student doesn't respect the teacher, they won't benefit.
A teacher knows what she is talking about. This can be seen with test papers and how well people do on it. There is no way to measure how well you are instead you basically say accept what I say and remove what you understood in the past. No teacher says that because you need prior understanding to help your with whatever it is your are learning.
I can't make you learn anything.
Because you got it in your head that accepting without using prior understanding is something a teacher does. You don't understand they don't do that and by doing that you are not a person someone can learn from instead pretty much a snake oil salesman. Wants me to buy the snake oil without honestly telling me what is in it.
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@TheRealNihilist
I am not paying attention to you anymore, as you are obvious not listening, simply being argumentative.
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@Mopac
Give up on trying to explain your side and expect me to simply believe what you said without explanation or evidence is too much for me. My way of doing things has worked and you haven't convinced me your way of doing things works.I am not paying attention to you anymore, as you are obvious not listening, simply being argumentative.
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@TheRealNihilist
God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud.
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@Mopac
Guess God is not proud of its own accomplishment or what Jesus did. Really makes you think what kind of person God is. Basically humble but still allowed a flood to occur. Really humble.God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud.
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@TheRealNihilist
I see no reason to think he has ever actually pays attention. He will however, if the past is any indicator, keep posting as long as you do with no regard for the content of your argument.I am not paying attention to you anymore, as you are obvious not listening, simply being argumentative.Give up on trying to explain your side and expect me to simply believe what you said without explanation or evidence is too much for me. My way of doing things has worked and you haven't convinced me your way of doing things works.
He can't stand to give other people the last word. Must be against his religion.
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@TheRealNihilist
It is easy to mock what one is unwilling to understand until their arbitrary demands are met.
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@secularmerlin
The only people who complain about others having the last word are those who care about having the last word.
In truth, you will die, and God will have the last word.
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@Mopac
In truth, you will die
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@Mopac
It wasn't mocking more so an assessment of what is going on. I didn't make a claim that was based on you instead of what you said. Arbitrary might be. Depends on what you mean by it. I can call your use of 2 definitions of God a cop out and when using it, it is arbitrary because you can't exactly know how God can be truth or the supreme being.It is easy to mock what one is unwilling to understand until their arbitrary demands are met.
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@TheRealNihilist
I certainly don't see "what is going on" the same way as you.
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@TheRealNihilist
That is what "God" means. The Ultimate Reality. That is what we mean.
There is nothing to prove here, only that you accept what it is we mean by the concept.
Otherwise you are making a srawman god.
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@secularmerlin
Whether religiously motivated or not, Mo is a troll. He would be banned from any other well run forum, but not here, this is where trolls are welcomed to stay in order to drive off others like yourself who seek intelligent discussion. You are actually the one who is not welcome here, if you were, something would have been done.I see no reason to think he has ever actually pays attention. He will however, if the past is any indicator, keep posting as long as you do with no regard for the content of your argument.He can't stand to give other people the last word. Must be against his religion.
But, now we see, based on your post, that you too are getting frustrated and annoyed by this troll and have gone to the extent of warning Omar.
Funny that, isn't it, Sec.
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@Mopac
God is everything? So can you point to it?That is what "God" means. The Ultimate Reality. That is what we mean.
There is nothing to prove here, only that you accept what it is we mean by the concept.
Do you accept God doesn't exist by concept?
Otherwise you are making a srawman god.
I am working off what you said.