"Religious Freedom" = Discrimination = Hate

Author: 3RU7AL

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Goldtop
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@Mopac
At the same time, I believe white supremacists have the right to peaceably assemble, print their own literature, speak freely without state intervention, petition the government, own firearms, etc. 

To not respect these rights is to put your own in jeopardy even.
I'm not surprised in the least that you're a white supremacist.
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@Goldtop
That's not what he said. Please quit lying.
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@janesix
@Goldtop
I'd like to point out that I am married and that one of us is black and one of us is white.
Goldtop
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@janesix
Please quit lying
That's hilarious coming from an habitual liar.

3RU7AL
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@Mopac
Stay out of my church, that is what I really care about.
No problem, your private club is immune to standards that apply to organizations that are open to the public.

Don't force us to adopt kids to perverts either.
Ok, I'm not sure what this has to do with your Church.  Please explain.
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
I believe in a private businesss right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. 
You’ve probably seen these signs at restaurants: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.” Or, “No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
But what do these signs really mean? Can a business just refuse service to someone? Can they throw you out if you forgot your flip-flops on the beach? When is a refusal to serve someone justified and when is it discrimination that could lead to a lawsuit? [LINK]
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@3RU7AL
Churches do run adoption agencies.

Which by the way, is a legitimate and more ethical alternative to abortion.


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@Snoopy
The person I have heard it from happened to run a religiously oriented business and employed someone open to unusual sexuality who was struggling with depression, and kept supporting them through everything they needed to do, at personal cost.
I like to believe that most religious people are nice to others.
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
Churches do run adoption agencies.
Are these adoption agencies OPEN TO THE PUBLIC?

Which by the way, is a legitimate and more ethical alternative to abortion.
Is this opinion of yours based on any particular data or holy scripture?
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@3RU7AL
You’ve probably seen these signs at restaurants: “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone.” Or, “No shirt, no shoes, no service.”
But what do these signs really mean? Can a business just refuse service to someone? Can they throw you out if you forgot your flip-flops on the beach? When is a refusal to serve someone justified and when is it discrimination that could lead to a lawsuit? [LINK]

I am not interested in effecting law.

It is better to love from the heart rather than simply go through the motions of love because you might get in trouble if you don't.

That is what we teach. We are not a legalistic faith. We hold free will in reverence. Jesus Christ is the lover of all mankind, even dying for those who crucified him(remember, he gave his life, it was not taken). That all being the case, God honors those who out of their own free will choose good, not those who are coerced into doing externally good works.


Mopac
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@3RU7AL
I don't think what I told you before has truly registered.

Our religion does not derive from the bible. We are a living church. We wrote the bible. It comes from our tradition, not the other way around.


Protestants are not a part of our tradition, so they construct their own from the bible. See the difference?


3RU7AL
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@Mopac
I am not interested in effecting law.

It is better to love from the heart rather than simply go through the motions of love because you might get in trouble if you don't.

That is what we teach. We are not a legalistic faith. We hold free will in reverence. Jesus Christ is the lover of all mankind, even dying for those who crucified him(remember, he gave his life, it was not taken). That all being the case, God honors those who out of their own free will choose good, not those who are coerced into doing externally good works.
So if the law says "everybody play nice" you have no objections?
3RU7AL
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@Mopac
I don't think what I told you before has truly registered.
Our religion does not derive from the bible. We are a living church. We wrote the bible. It comes from our tradition, not the other way around.
Protestants are not a part of our tradition, so they construct their own from the bible. See the difference?
Ok, well, congratulations on that Bible thing, it certainly seems to be popular, I hope you're getting a bunch of royalties.

And, by the way, what did you base it on?  Were there any underlying principles or first and second order axioms or did you just make it all up off the cuff?
ludofl3x
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@3RU7AL
I'll answer. It's based on the ultimate reality, of which there is only one and it's either the exact same or totally different than the reality you know.
3RU7AL
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@ludofl3x
I'll answer. It's based on the ultimate reality, of which there is only one and it's either the exact same or totally different than the reality you know.
Now it all makes sense.
Snoopy
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@3RU7AL
I am not interested in effecting law.

It is better to love from the heart rather than simply go through the motions of love because you might get in trouble if you don't.

That is what we teach. We are not a legalistic faith. We hold free will in reverence. Jesus Christ is the lover of all mankind, even dying for those who crucified him(remember, he gave his life, it was not taken). That all being the case, God honors those who out of their own free will choose good, not those who are coerced into doing externally good works.
So if the law says "everybody play nice" you have no objections?
The law should respect human dignity, but it should not be thought to dignify us.   
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@Snoopy
So what part of your magic textbook says you can't bake a gay wedding cake?
You know that is not how it works.
Ok, so what part of your Church teaching says you can't bake a gay wedding cake?

I mean, certainly it must be written down somewhere, maybe not in "The Bible" but in some other canonical document?
3RU7AL
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@Snoopy
So if the law says "everybody play nice" you have no objections?
The law should respect human dignity, but it should not be thought to dignify us.   
Is that a "yes" or a "no"?
Snoopy
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@3RU7AL
I don't think of national law as saying "everybody play nice".  That is not where such sentiment comes from.

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@Snoopy
I don't think of national law as saying "everybody play nice".  That is not where that comes from.
So if the law says, nobody (except PRIVATE CLUBS) can discriminate against a person on the basis of them being a member of a protected class, would you object?
Snoopy
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@3RU7AL
Oh yeah, that would be awful.  Lets say everyone is a member of the protected class "sex", so discrimination could be absolutely forbidden since everyone who has a sex is completely protected from discrimination.  Such a law would be totalitarian, and essentially turn the private sector into a diverse assortment of public utilities.  I hate to think what else the people behind it have in store.
Mopac
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@3RU7AL
Ok, well, congratulations on that Bible thing, it certainly seems to be popular, I hope you're getting a bunch of royalties.

And, by the way, what did you base it on?  Were there any underlying principles or first and second order axioms or did you just make it all up off the cuff?

It is too complicated for a simple answer. I suggest studying it with guidance from The Church. 


What I can say is what I have been saying the whole time. Our religion is Truth worship, and the experience of the church is living this in a world that prefers darkness to the light.


And so, a lot of the outward manifestations of the faith have to do with this interaction.
3RU7AL
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@Snoopy
Oh yeah, that would be awful.  Lets say everyone is a member of the protected class "sex", so discrimination could be absolutely forbidden since everyone who has a sex is completely protected from discrimination.  Such a law would be totalitarian, and essentially turn the private sector into a diverse assortment of public utilities.  I hate to think what else the people behind it have in store.
How exactly are you managing to leap to this conclusion?

You can still hire people who only have a particular level of education or certification or who can lift a certain amount of weight for example.

You just can't pre-emptively disqualify anyone on the basis of their protected class status.

Nobody is suggesting that hiring managers can't turn anyone down.

Please explain what anti-discrimination laws have to do with "totalitarianism"?
Snoopy
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@3RU7AL
How exactly did you arrive at a complex which involves "protected classes"? 

In civil rights law, thank goodness, there are "types of discrimination".

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@3RU7AL

Civil Rights Act
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@Snoopy
How exactly did you arrive at a complex which involves "protected classes"?  
Here you go, [LINK]

In civil rights law, thank goodness, there are "types of discrimination".
Are you hair-splitting again?  What is the relevant distinction you're trying to make?
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@Snoopy
Please explain what point you're driving at?
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@3RU7AL
"A protected group or protected class is a group of people qualified for special protection by a law, policy, or similar authority."

So, in the OP, people who observe traditional marriage might be called a protected group.

According to the Civil Rights Act, Americans are "protected" from certain types of discrimination based on characteristics.  The protected group is "American".  Actually, if everyone is protected who currently resides in the jurisdiction of the United States, there are no protected classes.


ludofl3x
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@Snoopy
So, in the OP, people who observe traditional marriage might be called a protected group.

What exactly does someone who observes traditional marriage need protection FROM? Is there someone telling them they cannot observe traditional marriage? This line of reasoning has never made sense to me. How does the two ladies who are married two doors down from my house in any way affect the meaning of my traditional marriage to my wife? 

THe reason gay marriage needs protection is because marriage comes with benefits and obligations according to the LAW (not the bible). Giving tax incentives or communal property rights to a traditional married couple while denying the same rights to a gay marriage couple is unAmerican at its core. It says one formula for love is inherently superior to other formulae. 

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@ludofl3x
What exactly does someone who observes traditional marriage need protection FROM?
The government, apparantly