punishment for abortion shouldn't be the same as murder early in the pregnancy

Author: n8nrgmi

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#61
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@disgusted
But only the barbaric nations have the death penalty, you know the Muslims and Chinese and other backwards countries like yours.
You want to mention foreign examples?  North Korea has legal abortions(so does China).  South Korea, Japan, New Zealand and parts of Australia have abortion restrictions into law.  The latter 4 seem like good western countries and they don't have abortion on demand.  
Countries with the death penalty: South Korea, Japan, New Zealand.  From what I've researched, the death penalty reduces the homicide rate.


Science confirms that a fetus is a human being.  A woman should not be forcing her views on a fetus.  
#62
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@Alec
Now go and actually learn something, the propaganda you've been indoctrinated with is not education. You are pro murder, get over it. Abortion is a woman's right to bodily autonomy and has nothing to do with murder. If only the numpties could understand human reproduction you wouldn't make the stupidly absurd claims you make. When is a fetus a human being?
#63
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@disgusted
Now go and actually learn something, the propaganda you've been indoctrinated with is not education.
I'm pretty sure your the one that got indoctrinated by college.

You are pro murder, get over it.
How?

If only the numpties could understand human reproduction you wouldn't make the stupidly absurd claims you make.
Ad hommin attack.

When is a fetus a human being?
When the cells specialize.
#64
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@Alec
When the cells specialize.
A meaningless statement that you have heard but don't understand now prove it.
How?
You support capital punishment, you are pro murder.

Ad hommin attack.
The comment was about your insanely absurd claims, learn what ad hom means.
#65
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@Greyparrot
Does any abortion law penalize the woman directly? Or all the punishments reserved for the Doctors?
I thought a bit more about this.  criminalizing people from preforming the death makes sense in that it's their actions that's the problem.  While the woman doing something to herself isn't penalized it's the outside assistance that is.  This fits well with the bodily autonomy claim.  If there is a right to do with your body as you wish that right does not extend or can be extended to others.  Giving permission or allowing doesn't grant that right.  This mirrors the limits on the 2a with regards to a straw purchase.  The morning after pill could also be banned for the same reasoning.
Just because you may have a right to your body does not mean that punishment can't be applicable to others.

Now before people start getting all stupid as you know they will.  Guns are not the same thing so on b.s. about if you want a gun you have to make it yourself, you don't even want that, because that will open up a new huge market.  Firearms are already produced for law enforcement etc and I believe a ruling said people should have access to standard, common firearms.  So to mass produce firearms for law enforcement only is what fascist regimes and the like do.

#66
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@disgusted
A meaningless statement that you have heard but don't understand now prove it.
Science says that the fetal cells specialize at 5 weeks.

You support capital punishment, you are pro murder.
There are different types of killing, 2 of them are execution and murder.  Murder is usually if not all the time worse then execution.


#67
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@n8nrgmi
That baby has the same life as a normal kid

You can not stab your kid and get away with it because you "can't handle it"

Abortion is awful and it is inhumane. Please don't make me look up abortions and aborted babies. Scientists from Harvard even state that "Conception begins when Sperm is fertilized with the egg, that is life as we know it. Killing a baby is killing life

I am against the Alabama bill, and believe that abortion should not be decided by government, but the person
#68
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@Vader
Are you a libertarian?  How is possible to be pro choice and a republican?
#69
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@Alec
It's called ideological consistency.  If we have the DP for murder, and abortion is murder, then those who commit it(abortionists) should get killed.
I am unaware of any "abortionists" there are women who have the procedure and doctors thst perform it but no one is just an abortion enthusiast to the best of my knowledge.

#70
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@Alec
Are you a libertarian?  How is possible to be pro choice and a republican?
Please rigorously define republican.

#71
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@Alec
Why do you advocate the death penalty for people convicted of murder?
#72
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@secularmerlin
I am unaware of any "abortionists" there are women who have the procedure and doctors thst perform it but no one is just an abortion enthusiast to the best of my knowledge.
An abortionist is someone who performs abortions.  I think both the woman who had the abortion and the provider need to be put to death for the murder of an innocent fetus.  If you tell someone to kill another person, your both responsible for their death and you both must pay for what you did.

Please rigorously define republican.
One who advocates for personal responsibility and someone who believes you should pay for your mistakes instead of others.
#73
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@Snoopy
Why do you advocate the death penalty for people convicted of murder?
-Eye for an eye is a good method of justice.  It's formulaic and logical.
-It reduces the homicide rate according to the link below:

#74
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@disgusted
I challenge you to a debate on abortion or the death penalty for murder.  Take your pick.  Mustardness didn't accept it.  Hopefully you do.
#75
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@Alec
An abortionist is someone who performs abortions. 
So the "abortionists" are primarily doctors. 
I think both the woman who had the abortion and the provider need to be put to death for the murder of an innocent fetus. 
Well making abortion illegal would certainly cause the death rate of one of these groups to skyrocket whatever the actual legal repercussions are. 
If you tell someone to kill another person, your both responsible for their death and you both must pay for what you did.
I'm sorry but are we discussing a fetus or a person?
One who advocates for personal responsibility and someone who believes you should pay for your mistakes instead of others.
Is someone unable to be pro choice and believe in taking personal responsibility? If so in what way specifically are these two ideas mutually exclusive?
#76
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@secularmerlin
So the "abortionists" are primarily doctors. 
There synonyms.

Well making abortion illegal would certainly cause the death rate of one of these groups to skyrocket whatever the actual legal repercussions are. 
In the short term yes.  However in the long term, it purges abortion from American society, saving more babies in the long term.  It encourages women to use an IUD and to force their males to use condoms if they want to have sex.  It reduces abortion and it encourages birth control, which I want to be free.

If you tell someone to kill another person, your both responsible for their death and you both must pay for what you did.
I'm sorry but are we discussing a fetus or a person?
It's based off of the assumption that a fetus is a person.  Science has confirmed this assumption.  

Is someone unable to be pro choice and believe in taking personal responsibility?
Personal responsibility is people taking responsibility for the own actions.  Being pro choice means you support a woman's right to force a fetus to take responsibility for her actions.  It's mutually exclusive.
#77
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
That's why most drug laws go after the drug dealers and not so much the drug users.
#78
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@Greyparrot
and I'm fine with that, like marijuana for example, if you want to grow it for person use fine, but all these shops etc is b.s. because those are only about money, not rights.
#79
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Wow, the amount of lies, disinformation and ignorance on this thread is stunning. It's hard to believe folks here can be so wilfully stupid.
#80
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@Alec
So the "abortionists" are primarily doctors. 
There synonyms.
If doctor and abortionist are synonymous then there are far more abortionists that do not perform abortions than abortionists that do perform them. I think your definition needs a little work.
Well making abortion illegal would certainly cause the death rate of one of these groups to skyrocket whatever the actual legal repercussions are. 
In the short term yes.  However in the long term, it purges abortion from American society, saving more babies in the long term.  It encourages women to use an IUD and to force their males to use condoms if they want to have sex.  It reduces abortion and it encourages birth control, which I want to be free.
I could point out that what you have said does nothing to address my actual point (which for the record was that prohibiting illegal abortion does not prevent women from seeking abortion but for a make the procedure far more dangerous and expensive for them) but instead I will just ask who is going to pay for this birth control? I mean it's not really free right? Thought republicans advocate for self responsibility?
It's based off of the assumption that a fetus is a person.  Science has confirmed this assumption
Personhood is a legal distinction not a scientific one. Science has not and cannot confirm any such thing.
Being pro choice means you support a woman's right to force a fetus to take responsibility for her actions
The fetus is not being asked to take on any responsibility. In fact just the opposite. That fetus will never have any responsibility what so ever. I thought that was one of your objections.
#81
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@secularmerlin
If doctor and abortionist are synonymous then there are far more abortionists that do not perform abortions than abortionists that do perform them. I think your definition needs a little work.
Would abortion doctor be a good definition?

I could point out that what you have said does nothing to address my actual point (which for the record was that prohibiting illegal abortion does not prevent women from seeking abortion but for a make the procedure far more dangerous and expensive for them) but instead I will just ask who is going to pay for this birth control? I mean it's not really free right? Thought republicans advocate for self responsibility?
I could live with gov subsidized birth control for everyone if it reduced abortions.  Contraception is cheap.

Personhood is a legal distinction not a scientific one. Science has not and cannot confirm any such thing.
Fine.  A fetus then ought to be considered a person because of scientific evidence.

The fetus is not being asked to take on any responsibility. In fact just the opposite
Responsibility is similar to sacrifice.  A fetus is being required without their consent to sacrifice their life because some guy couldn't keep it in their pants.  This is not Republican.
#82
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@Alec
Would abortion doctor be a good definition?
I suppose but it tenders the term "abortionists" redundantvand unnecessary. 
I could live with gov subsidized birth control for everyone if it reduced abortions.  Contraception is cheap.
This is in response to a post that is spe ific to one posters definition of Republican. Unless you specifically agree with his definition this does not apply to you.
Fine.  A fetus then ought to be considered a person because of scientific evidence.
Science dies not deal in oughts. It only deals in the objectively verifiable. 
Responsibility is similar to sacrifice.  A fetus is being required without their consent to sacrifice their life because some guy couldn't keep it in their pants.  This is not Republican.
This is in response to a post that is spe ific to one posters definition of Republican. Unless you specifically agree with his definition this does not apply to you.
#83
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@Alec
I am Pro Life from a Moral Standpoint. My stance on this is the government should not make laws on peoples bodies. It's fairly Conservative, its the removal of government in daily life
#84
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@Vader
It's not conservative.  It might be libertarian, but not conservative.  How do libertarians and conservatives differ except for social freedom?
#85
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@Alec
limiting yourself to a label is silly, address issues individually as an individual is the only thing that makes any real sense.


#86
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
limiting yourself to a label is silly, address issues individually as an individual is the only thing that makes any real sense.
Well stated 

#87
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@Alec
I am very middle according to my chart. I lean right, but I am mostly middle, I believe that the law should not dictate a person life is anti liberal. 

A liberal policy would say
"A law should be passed that gives the women's right to choose."

My stance is a lasseiz far like, I say
"The decision should be up to a person, not a policymaker or a policy."
#88
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@Vader
Your position and the liberal one sound similar.
#89
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@Alec
No, a liberal believes a law should be in place that allows freedom of body, a conservative like myself says that there should be NO POLICY, and let people do what they want
#90
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@Vader
Liberals want no restrictions on abortions with fetuses that can't survive outside the womb.  They want absolute freedom on these abortions.  Conservatives prefer life to this facet of freedom.  You can believe what you want to believe, but it's jut not right wing.  I think your a libertarian and if you think differently, then what makes you a conservative instead of a libertarian?