Those Battling 45,000 Denominations

Author: RoderickSpode

Posts

Total: 308
RoderickSpode
RoderickSpode's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,044
2
2
2
RoderickSpode's avatar
RoderickSpode
2
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
Different is one is observable and another isn't. Your analogy doesn't work when a loudspeaker can be observable whereas God cannot. All you have given here is conjecture nothing tangible like the God you believe in. 
I think you're referring to something completely different. This is what I'm addressing.


If God is powerful enough to build Universes, he should be able to communicate in a way that is not subjective to personal opinions. 

This person believes that, like the man on the loudspeaker communicating to a broad audience, God could (or should since he created the universe) be able to communicate to a broad audience (mankind). Which is reasonable, right?

However I'm not sure if this person believes that like the man on the loudspeaker, God has no control over who receives his communication. God sends the communication, and all within communication range (planet earth) will be forced to receive it simply because they're in hearing (communication) range. Or, most likely, the person thinks that an all powerful creator certainly could communicate to an individual without his neighbor having a clue, but for whatever reason (fairness?), wouldn't restrict his communication to humans on an individual basis.

That's what I'm trying to find out at this point.

TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@RoderickSpode

If God is powerful enough to build Universes, he should be able to communicate in a way that is not subjective to personal opinions. 
So I have to accept the assumption that God exists to think this? How about if I reject that? 

RoderickSpode
RoderickSpode's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,044
2
2
2
RoderickSpode's avatar
RoderickSpode
2
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
I may not be sure what you're asking. But, of course you have the right to reject it. What exactly are you rejecting though? That's not really clear.
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
-->
@RoderickSpode
I may not be sure what you're asking. But, of course you have the right to reject it. What exactly are you rejecting though? That's not really clear.
Rejecting God existing.
If I assumed God exists then this would be relevant right? 

croweupc
croweupc's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 57
0
0
4
croweupc's avatar
croweupc
0
0
4
-->
@Mopac
Do you not understand quotes and sarcasm. You are such a literalist that you miss the point of the quote. No Protestant I know believes in this way, it was meant to express the philosophical problems with the belief in the Christian God. I see you focused on the quote and ignored the rest. You along with every other persuasive religion feels they have truth and refuse to accept anything else. There are many philosophical problems with Christianity. What would it take to convince you that you are wrong? A better question is, what would it take to convince you another religion is right, and has your beliefs met that level of scrutiny? Most have not and will not examine their own faith claims the same way they do others. The main reason for this is because they are already convinced it’s true, so there is no need to do so. We are naturally more skeptical of beliefs we do not share, but will blindly accept beliefs we do share. I am skeptical of any belief that has not met its burden of proof. 
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@croweupc
Don't get me wrong here... i really like what you are saying. I don't think there is anything you can say to someone religious that is convinced they are right. The only way is for them to find it out themselves. But then again, i have a wacky belief system that suggest most never will bc that is just who they are to this world (it's a simulation type wacky belief). I'd be wrong in suspecting such a metaphysical claim if they could easily change... this also goes for the other side:

So, on your end... what would you standard of burden of proof be? Do you even think humanity is anywhere close to being able to "prove" a metaphysical claim? Do you think having a starting point of skepticism is a good thing? 
RoderickSpode
RoderickSpode's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 1,044
2
2
2
RoderickSpode's avatar
RoderickSpode
2
2
2
-->
@TheRealNihilist
I may not be sure what you're asking. But, of course you have the right to reject it. What exactly are you rejecting though? That's not really clear.
Rejecting God existing.
If I assumed God exists then this would be relevant right? 
As far as the topic of the thread, no. The assumption addressed in the OP is faulty whether one believes God exists or not.

Can you elaborate though on what exactly would be relevant if you assumed God exists?
Polytheist-Witch
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Debates: 1
Posts: 4,188
3
3
6
Polytheist-Witch's avatar
Polytheist-Witch
3
3
6
-->
@croweupc
No they don't that lie,is old.
TheRealNihilist
TheRealNihilist's avatar
Debates: 44
Posts: 4,920
4
9
11
TheRealNihilist's avatar
TheRealNihilist
4
9
11
The assumption addressed in the OP is faulty whether one believes God exists or not. 
Okay.
what exactly would be relevant if you assumed God exists?
Anything related to God. I am not really going to assume something like that because the information I would gather wouldn't be informative as lets say if we assume we were mindless machines for our overlords. Kind of like God but I think you would disagree.

croweupc
croweupc's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 57
0
0
4
croweupc's avatar
croweupc
0
0
4
-->
@Outplayz
My issue is not really with religion. I quite like the Buddhist text and teachings. I have no issues with a God proposition. When people think they know God and how he wants me to live, I take issue with them. The only evidence they have is an ancient book written in ancient times with ancient ideas like stoning people for working on the sabbath. When I bring this up, they justify these horrible acts because God is good, kind, just, all loving, and he knows best. The justification of truly horrible behavior is a scary thing to me. I never felt comfortable with certain text in the Bible, I just ignored them for a really long time.

I want to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. If testable evidence supports the claim, I will believe it. If testable evidence is against the claim, I will reject it. If no testable evidence exists, my belief remains at null until sufficient evidence supports it. The greater the claim, the greater the evidence is needed to support such claims. As for metaphysics, if you are not claiming absolute certainty, then I really don’t care, but if you know for sure something you cannot possibly know, I think it is unjustified.
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@croweupc
My issue is not really with religion. I quite like the Buddhist text and teachings. I have no issues with a God proposition. When people think they know God and how he wants me to live, I take issue with them. The only evidence they have is an ancient book written in ancient times with ancient ideas like stoning people for working on the sabbath. When I bring this up, they justify these horrible acts because God is good, kind, just, all loving, and he knows best. The justification of truly horrible behavior is a scary thing to me. I never felt comfortable with certain text in the Bible, I just ignored them for a really long time.
Very well said. Especially the part "people think they know God and how he wants me to live" ... basically, people want you to be like them so they can feel better about themselves. That's how i see it anyways. They are offended that you are different. That has always really pissed me off about religious people too... especially bc they can't see that's what they're doing. They think it's an act of kindness, but to me... it's an act of great offense when they tell me to stop being who i am. My definition of evil is every variation and degree of imprisoning another human being. The thing about that is... who was the original imprison-er? For religious people it goes pretty far back. I feel sorry for them now. They've been imprisoned by flawed humans for a long time... it's really not their fault. 

I want to believe as many true things as possible and as few false things as possible. If testable evidence supports the claim, I will believe it. If testable evidence is against the claim, I will reject it. If no testable evidence exists, my belief remains at null until sufficient evidence supports it. The greater the claim, the greater the evidence is needed to support such claims. As for metaphysics, if you are not claiming absolute certainty, then I really don’t care, but if you know for sure something you cannot possibly know, I think it is unjustified.
The thing about metaphysical/spiritual claims is that they are all anecdotal. But just like any genre... these claims have been muddied by greedy and power hungry humans. But the way i look at it is that if just one of these claims happened in a spiritual sense... that is technically proof of something beyond this reality. It further gets tricky for me bc i've had this "proof" happen to me... i've had a couple spiritual experiences that i can't explain. With that said, i'm still agnostic bc i can think critically and come up with explanations... but, i've found in doing that i'm just making up explanations which any skeptic can do. Which one is real... life tells me i should go with the explanation that isn't "woo woo" ... but the problem with that is, the woo still happened. 

So, a couple thing i know from these experiences is 1) i can't repeat them; 2) it's was unpredictable; 3) i can't control them. This is the slight problem i have with your standard. I say slight bc it is a logical standard. It's a standard that within the moments i had, i was applying. But that's the trick... how should i be looking at this bc it proved itself to me in those moments 'if' they truly happened in a spiritual sense. Do you think the scientific standard we have right now is even equipped to answer spiritual experiences if the top 3 points are true? 

To me, i'm honestly confused, but i would say i suspect more than not there is a metaphysical platform/reality we aren't aware of. I'm like 70/50. Bc even if my experiences were false, they still happened. It makes me think are the millions of other people claiming such experiences also mistaken? I don't know... but i think the number of claims is enough to at least suspect something is going on.  


Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@croweupc
Orthodox Christian theology is expressed in apodictic truths.

The problem with unenlightened heterodox forms of Christianity is that they don't get this. It wasn't long after Rome broke away that scholasticism developed. The idea that Christianity was based on philosophy or rationalistic thi king rather than the revelation of apodictic truth.

The very natural result of this is the total corruption of the Latin church, the protestant reformation, and post-Christian philsophy.


Where does it lead? 


Nihilism. That's pretty much what you are left with.

And thst is what denying God is. Nihilism. The Ultimate Reality is God.

So no, there isn't any argument you can make that convince me Christianity is wrong, because you are an atheist. You're obviously a fool. You're stated position is "Nothing I say is true", which is the logical implication of "There is no ultimate reality"


I have put a great deal of thought into what I believe, and I take it very seriously. As that is the case, I don't respect your condescending view towards those who might believe as I do, as I have revealed to you that as an atheist, you have no ground to stand on.


You are simply badly educated. Thankfully, I am here to educate. Unfortunately, I can not educate someone who thinks they know better.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@croweupc
Orthodox Christianity is Truth worship. Our God is The Truth.

We love The Truth through purifying the heart, cleansing the nous.

If you do this, you will love people. If you love the things of this world instead of God, you will prefer your own desires and passions, and despise people.

croweupc
croweupc's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 57
0
0
4
croweupc's avatar
croweupc
0
0
4
-->
@Outplayz
i guess the first place to start is what do you mean by spiritual? That word is not well defined and has assumptions built in. It appears to me our brain controls our experiences. Imagine being on drugs and having an experience, would you call that spiritual? I have no reason to doubt anyone who claims they had an extraordinary experience. Should we start with a supernatural explanation when we can’t even demonstrate the supernatural exists? Every time humans have claimed the supernatural for things like lightning, thunder, earthquakes, and famines, we have shown time and time again it is natural. I am not saying that the supernatural doesn’t exist, but when is a good time to accept that it does? We should always look for natural explanations first before jumping to the supernatural. Even if we were to establish a non-natural explanation, how do we determine who or what happened exactly? Most people just credit the God or gods they happen to believe in. If people left it at just a higher power, cool! But most will tell you who did it and what he wants every to do and how to live. We all have beliefs that exceed the evidence we currently have, but it’s the level of certainty that drives me crazy. I proportion my level of belief to the evidence. If I have little evidence, my level of belief would not be as strong as beliefs with ample evidence. Skepticism is about certainty. How certain should I believe what I think is true? That’s where I’m at right now.
Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@croweupc
A bit to address here, but a lot i agree with too. The people that have muddied the water are def. people of religious 'organizations' (or the like) telling people they know the truth and if you don't believe them there are consequences. It goes far down the rabbit hole in who these people are. I can't blame people that have experiences to correlate them with their indoctrinated faith. Being very spiritually minded myself, i've noticed many people can't think about spiritual implications. Even the most basic stuff i bring up in conversations seems to wow people. I personally think there is such thing as spiritual intelligence. Which is people that can make sense of metaphysical platforms and their implications naturally. Unfortunately, some of these people become experts in ancient books too... and further manipulate people into these organizations that have entrapped people's minds. 

But the point is, people still experienced something in order to correlate it to their belief. I'm absolutely with you that these experiences don't point to any specific platform. They are just... "unexplained." I wouldn't even go as far as saying a higher power. However, there are experiences that suggest some sort of "intelligence" is behind the experience. I'm going to paraphrase one of my experiences to illustrate what i mean. Image holding a necklace. Now, imagine you do everything to make sure you understand the natural spin before you start and that you are stable. Now, someone tells the necklace to spin to the right (it spins hard to the right), says stop (it stops), says spin it to the left (it spins hard left). There is more to the story, i'll tell you if you'd like, but that is the gist of it. Now... what conclusions can i make from that? I would say, spiritually speaking, something was able to follow commands and spin the necklace. The most logical natural explanation is that i spun it myself unconsciously. But i know i didn't, and did everything in my power to test it. So... it just becomes an unexplained experience right? 

Therein lies my definition of spiritual. I define spiritual as a reality we aren't aware of that seems to exhibit intelligence. This could be god/gods, spirits, aliens, inter-dimensional beings, etc. It also covers maybe an unseen dimension in our own world that has some sort of agency through us. It really could be anything. In my case, i call all of these platforms. We have no clue what the platform is that allows for such things. Many are trying to explain it... including religion, but none, in my opinion, know. Except recently i've been starting to be very intrigued by the "infinite consciousness" type eastern philosophy stuff... it jives with science in my opinion so it's def. the most interesting. Also, since eastern people have been asking questions and changing for years... i'd say they are the experts in explaining the platform, if anyone. 

But ultimately i don't think the platform matters. It's all about who you and i are to the platform that matters. Who i am to infinity (crazy implications). But i digress. I think if we can get the platform down and focus on one, maybe one day we can start discovering it. I think the rest i agree with you, but i would say one should equally look for supernatural explanations as well as the natural. Bc if you only look for natural explanations... you'll come up with one. My necklace example... i could easily say i spun it and that's it. But i'd be intellectually dishonest if i count out that wasn't the case. We are really young in our existence facing an infinite platform. Maybe some beliefs were wrong about thunder being thor banging his hammer... but could there be an entity that created thunder? Although Vikings and Greeks were wrong about certain parts... i think their way of beliefs (multiple gods) is an interesting perspective about the platform. Maybe there is one consciousness with multiple entities within it... one god and multiple gods. I just find it very interesting that humans can even think of such things.

One last thing is... i don't think humanity can handle a spiritual answer currently. My personal belief is that i'm infinite. That when i die i will just choose another experience to have. If i knew i was right 100%... i would probably kill myself. So... let's say i'm right for everyone. Why would anyone live if that was a truth? Even the infinite consciousness platform has similar implications... i imagine a lot would commit suicide. So, maybe it's by 'design' we currently can't have this spiritual answer and why it's so elusive. I have other thoughts on this... but i've already wrote too much. The implications of anything spiritual being true is pretty deep. I don't think one should count it out... at the same time, we have to fight against the humans trying to entrap people into their belief... bc i do label that as continuing something evil. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@croweupc
See, the Orthodox Church understands that spiritual delusion is a thing. We call this prelest.

So no, we don't simply accept visions as coming from God. 


One of the advantages that we Orthodox have over the protestants is that we have a living monastic tradition that goes back to the very beginning. We have a lot of experience dealing with prelest, as this is a big part of what monasticism is!

As we consider the church to be a spiritual hospital, we have our method down to a science.

disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
See, the Orthodox Church understands that spiritual delusion is a thing. We call this prelest.
We call it godism and we know more than you.

As we consider the church to be a spiritual hospital, we have our method down to a science.
Just as the African witch doctors do.

croweupc
croweupc's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 57
0
0
4
croweupc's avatar
croweupc
0
0
4
-->
@Outplayz
I respect anyone who has an open mind about what they believe. I do not share the same experiences as you, so my views differ from yours. I am a naturalist. I only believe in the natural world, but I would never take the position that the natural world is all there is. I sympathize with your beliefs because my mom believes in a higher power. My dad however is an ultra conservative Christian which is why I was one for over thirty years. I know what it’s like to live in a place where my beliefs were constantly reinforced by the people I surrounded myself with and the material I chose to read. Indoctrination works best in isolation. I see you like to read other religious sources which is good because you get many different perspectives. You mentioned correlation, and the Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster shows the problem with the belief that correlation equals causation. It shows the decline of pirates happening at the same time as global temperatures rise and suggests that they must be related. Having opinions are fine, but when we make truth claims about subjects we know little about is where I have issues, and to top that off people want to tell you how to live and act, and legislate their  beliefs on the rest of us. The same people who legislate their beliefs are the first to complain if someone they disagree with legislates theirs. We share this space and should respect each other, but that can’t happen when one side is trying to force the other side to comply with their beliefs. This drives me crazy! I like to tell people to imagine someone of another faith enforcing their religious beliefs on them. This example usually helps them see the problem we are having unless they just don’t care. 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@croweupc
You claim to know my faith, but I know you don't.

You have prejudice about why I bekieve what I do, but I know it is untrue.

I am not trying to force my beliefs on you at all, quite the contrary, my faith can not be come to by coercive means. I simply want to educate you.

Protestantism is a heresy, that means that your understanding of Christianity comes from heretics. You say your dad is conservative, but conservative protestantism is not the ancient faith. How many protestant churches are older than a few hundred years old? The Orthodox Church is the very apostolic church. Can't get more conservative than Orthodox.

And it is against our religion to persecute others for their faith, and an integral part of our faith to love those who believe differently, even going so far as to bless those who are persecuting us.



disgusted
disgusted's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,959
2
3
3
disgusted's avatar
disgusted
2
3
3
-->
@Mopac
You claim to know my faith, but I know you don't.
Of course I know your faith, it's based on the words of ignorant, primitive, superstitious savages. Grow up.

Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@croweupc
 We share this space and should respect each other,
I absolutely agree. If i'm going to be optimistic, i think we are working our way towards this and the take-down of organized religion is a must. Not the take-down of beliefs... the take-down of other humans telling us who to be. We can all still have beliefs in what will happen... and quite honestly, i think it's up to the observer to know what will happen. Staring into ideas like multi-verse and infinity, everyone can get what they hope for. But i'm a naturalist too when it comes to this reality. This reality is this reality. No one should have the power to take away other people's experiences bc some book / other humans says it's wrong. That kinda BS has ruled long enough... and look at the world, it's not ruling very holy. That should have made it obvious to everyone a long time ago that these beliefs are flawed... bc if there weren't, the world would be better imho. 

It's funny, i watch a music reaction channel on Youtube. It's two christians that listen to metal... so they seem pretty open minded even if i disagree with their platform. I just saw a video in which they were talking about their subscribers. They said the kindest people, the people that give them the best gifts, the people that give them the most love... are always atheists. The guy said he got a gift with a letter, opened the gift that was a cd he wanted, and he said before reading the letter... he knew it was an atheist and would have been shocked if it was a Christian. This kind of real life examples should speak volumes to current Christians... when another christian knows they are not going to be the kind ones. I think this is wonderful bc people are seeing this... social media may be organized religions downfall. I personally hope so, not the community part and belief (per se) part... the power over other people part. That's so clearly a flawed human quality written all over these organizations. 

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Outplayz
For you to say that the take down of organized religion as a must is an open declaration of war against my church and a blatant contradiction on your part, because you cannot claim to believe in sharing space and respecting me or my beliefs while simultaneously preaching the necessity of annihilating the body of Christ.



Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Mopac
You are full of straw-man. Why are you misrepresenting what i was saying. I made sure i said "not" the community, "not" the belief... i am referencing organizations of humans beings trying to impose their beliefs on others for power and control. That is the part of organized religion that i disagree with. And, take-down doesn't mean war in how i'm using it. Take-down as in humans becoming conscious enough to not be malleable to other human beings. That's why i bring up social media... people's minds will take it down and i made that clear as well. If you don't comprehend what i wrote, ask questions instead of building straw-man and jumping to war... tf do you have on your mind. If you think sex outside of marriage is evil... it's not war that will change that, it's the people seeing though your lies. 

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Outplayz
We Orthodox Christians have holy orders.

We have bishops.

We have priests.

We have deacons.

We have monasteries headed by abbots.


We are very organized.

And it is obvious that you hate us just as you also hate the truth.




Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Mopac
And it is obvious that you hate us just as you also hate the truth.
I don't hate anyone i haven't met. That is an unnecessary emotion that is harmful to my personal self... so stop projecting. I do hate people that try to impose their will on weaker minded humans... so if that is what you're doing in my area, i'll make anyone with this mind set feel insignificant real fast. It's bullying, it's evil. You can try to sound as tough as you want... but if those are the values you hold and people you respect... all i see is a weak human being.

Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Outplayz
Our religion is not a secular government. We do not force people to do anything.


I find it strange that you are trying to flip this around like some type of lawyer when you literally said "the take-down of organized religion is a must."

You are calling for the death of my church, there is no way around this. We do not see your ideal of spiritual egotism and self directed religious anarchy to be desirable. 

Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Mopac
 "the take-down of organized religion is a must."
I am the one that wrote this... i told you exactly what i meant. And, you are still mis-interpreting. Lol... and you want me to believe any interpretation of thousand year old text you have is accurate. Perfect example. 

You are calling for the death of my church, there is no way around this.
If it's bad ideas, if it's wrong... i don't have to call for anything. Your church will be the death of itself. I hope it's not to a certain degree, but if your church is telling people they are wrong for being who they are... sure, i'd like to see the death of humans trying to flex control and power over others. 

We do not see your ideal of spiritual egotism and self directed religious anarchy to be desirable. 
Bc you're brainwashed. You don't accept people that don't believe you. Believe what you want. If i don't see it affecting me, i don't care. But Christianity is effecting other people's lives that don't believe what it does. It's an intolerant belief system. I'd like to see that intolerance bite itself in the butt, and it will one day if we continue to evolve as we are.
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Outplayz
Telling people the truth even if it isn't what they want to hear or believe is not an attempt to flex control or power. We do not tell people they are wrong for being who they are, we tell them that the wrong they think they are is not really who they are. So rather than putting down people, we tell them instead lthat they are better than what they believe!

So you have it all wrong. Of course I accept you. Loving you doesn't mean validating your spiritual delusion. Loving you is TELLING YOU THE TRUTH. 

There is nothing intolerant about my faith. You see what I believe as intolerant because it contradicts way you believe. It couldn't be further from the truth.




Outplayz
Outplayz's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,193
3
3
5
Outplayz's avatar
Outplayz
3
3
5
-->
@Mopac
Loving you doesn't mean validating your spiritual delusion.
Man... get out of here. It's sad that you just don't get it. I don't believe your "truth" ... it's offensive when you try to apply it to me. Yet, you will continue to tell me i don't know what i'm talking about bc i'm "deluded"? That's trash. That isn't love and acceptance. You have a hole in your heart that thinks i'm damned... You may be able to cover that hole bc you are generally a good person... but there are many from your kin that cannot cover this hate. You "hate" evil... under your belief system, i'm someone that has embraced this "evil." How can you tell me there isn't hate? 
Mopac
Mopac's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 8,050
3
4
7
Mopac's avatar
Mopac
3
4
7
-->
@Outplayz
Outplayz, I am not simply being mean. You are obviously very conceited and in prelest. It is your conceit that makes you incapable of seeing things as they are.

I am not saying this to be mean, I am saying this because it is the truth. I am saying this out of love, not hate. I want the best for you. What you consider to be true is evidently arbitrary, you reveal this nearly every time you elaborate on your beliefs. From an abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.

There is no human being who can heal you, Outplayz, it is only God that can heal you. You have been given freewill as a gift from God, and for God to heal you it is necessary that you cooperate. If you do not cooperate with God, He will not force Himself on you. This evil that has possessed you, this demon, can be exercised. It can be removed. It can not be done without your consent and cooperation with God.