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@TheRealNihilist
religion ask me anything
Posts
Total:
88
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@TheRealNihilist
Quote me a verse that the Bible is for homosexuality.
David to Jonathan:
"...very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."
2 Samuel 1:26 (kjv)
Quote me a verse that the Bible states they are against slavery.
I can't find one against slavery per se, but slave trading is equated to other immoral acts.
"lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"
(1 Tim 9-10, niv).
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@keithprosser
"...very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."2 Samuel 1:26 (kjv)
How is this referring to a man and another man loving each other sexually?
for slave traders
Simple call them bondservants so that Christians is outlawed from that punishment.
practicing homosexuality
Contradiction? If the first quote was supposed to show how the Bible is for homosexuality.
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@n8nrgmi
This was used to show miracles
From a catholic website not from a scientific website which has peer review and credible people talking about things they are knowledgeable on. Really weird how you are able to bring actual facts when it comes to things other then Religion but now you show a glaring problem. You commit a special pleading fallacy to your theism. Instead of making theism abide by societal agreed upon standards like observable like agreeing with what the academic consensus is you choose to simply say I don't care about it in this specific so I am now a Christian.
Proof of praying is proof of praying. Not proof that praying results in someone being cured. If this was the case there would be a massive breakthrough in science. Instead of wasting our time with cancer research we should instead pray to God. Science as we know it would be useless if that was the case.
Do you have actual evidence or are you going to carry on with your special pleading fallacy?
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@TheRealNihilist
your fallacy is finding one in what i said. if you dont think the evidence is sufficient or corroborated enough, that's one thing, but that's not a fallacy. the thing is, though, those sorts of 'miracles' happen all the time. a good place to look for more is the congregation for the causes of the saints in the catholic church. they require three 'miracles' before a person is canonized.
i think a better argument on your part would be to say that these are inexplicable things but that doesn't mean there's no explanation possible ever. i dont buy that.... i think these look like violations of the laws of nature, not just inexplicable that could later be explained. damaged retinas for example don't just spontaneously heal themselves.
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@keithprosser
@TheRealNihilist
Obviously homosexuality is not condoned by the bible.
The bible is certainly not for the godless to interpret to begin with. Rather than reading scripture and relying on your own understanding, it would be better to be educated the proper way.
Go to an Orthodox Priest. Ask questions. Read recommend books. Sit through some liturgies.
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@TheRealNihilist
How is this referring to a man and another man loving each other?
Well, David and Jonathan were definitely both men! Hey, if there was a verse explicitly praise of mano-a-mano rumpy-pumpy I'd have posted it. 2 sam is as close as I can find.
Simple call them bondservants so that Christians is outlawed from that punishment.
I rather think that it was more that while slavery was accepted, those in the business of buying and selling slaves were considered to be low status and semi-criminals - a bit like used car salesmen today! I doubt many used car salesmen get to heaven.
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@n8nrgmi
You might find this informative.
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@n8nrgmi
Name what fallacy I committed?your fallacy is finding one in what i said.
if you dont think the evidence is sufficient or corroborated enough, that's one thing, but that's not a fallacy.
You have two different standards. One for God and another for lets say how democrats on average are more intelligent than Republicans. One is supported by data from qualified individuals whereas another is simply a story about someone's opinion. Someone's opinion is not the same as a qualified opinion. You know that yet you still commit the special pleading fallacy.
'miracles'
Define miracle or maybe you are going to do what you did before which is neglect the very thing I asked of you.
not just inexplicable that could later be explained. damaged retinas for example don't just spontaneously heal themselves.
Yes and your inability to show proof it was because of God is a testament to the different standards you have. One I actually look at the facts and another I can't explain something therefore God. Maybe leave the science to the scientist. You know like what you did with comparing intelligence between Republicans and Democrats.
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@keithprosser
Was it sexual?Well, David and Jonathan were definitely both men!
Love can be non-sexual like a mother to a child so since it is not inherent that love necessary follows sexual interaction you would have to show it is the case.
I rather think that it was more that while slavery was accepted, those in the business of buying and selling slaves were considered to be low status and semi-criminals - a bit like used car salesmen today! I doubt many used car salesmen get to heaven.
I don't know what you mean. I would only get your context if I understood your context whereas if you simply gave me your argument there is less chance of me missing out on the context since I am talking about slavery right now not used car salesman.
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@Mopac
Thanks for stating what other Christians can't either by ignorance or lying about what they truly believe.Obviously homosexuality is not condoned by the bible.
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@TheRealNihilist
Homosexuality was punishable by death in ancient Israel, so the idea that David and Johnathan were involved in that way is ludicrous.
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@TheRealNihilist
I am the only Orthodox Christian around here.
I think that is worth pointing out.
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@TheRealNihilist
i dont think it's realisitc to think a retina would just heal itself like that. i can't say it's impossible, though. so, what about that proposition i always give? can you find something like a healed retina happening to an atheist? i know you can find inexplicable things, but not things that look like violations of the laws of nature.
we have someone getting their vision restored from an irrevresible disease. yet, you insist there's no evidence of the supernatural when it's right in front of you. like an ostrich that sticks its head in the sand
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@Mopac
Obviously homosexuality is not condoned by the bible.Go to an Orthodox Priest. Ask questions. Read recommend books. Sit through some liturgies.
I don't need a priest to tell me that the bible does not condone homosexuality.
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death"
is pretty clear even to me.
In the NT paul advises Christians to be celibate, so he wasn't in favour of heterosexual sex either.
"I’m telling those who are single and widows that it’s good for them to stay single like me." (1 cor 7:8)
Of course early Christians like Paul believed the world was about to end so there was no point having children so his advice made sort of sense.
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@Mopac
Is it ludicrous that David was a murderer and an adulterer, crimes also punishable by death? Did not David have Uriah the hittite killed because he (David) lusted for Uriah's wife, Bathsheeba?Homosexuality was punishable by death in ancient Israel, so the idea that David and Johnathan were involved in that way is ludicrous.
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@TheRealNihilist
I don't know what you mean. I would only get your context if I understood your context whereas if you simply gave me your argument there is less chance of me missing out on the context since I am talking about slavery right now not used car salesman.
The verse gives a list of sinner-types:
"lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers"
Putting slave traders in that list shows that those involved the slave trade were considered to be on the same level as liars and murderers. I think the that the nearest modern equivalent would be the stereotype of dodgy car salesmen, who operate legally but are not noted for their moral rectitude nor held in high regard.
As I said, I couldn't find a verse against slavery per se, but slave trading was equated to other immoral acts.
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@keithprosser
David was King when the later happened, and as Nathan the prophet said, it was this action the lead to all the division and turmoil that plagued the rest of his reign.
And to this day, just as Nathan also said, this will be a stumbling block to those seeking God.
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@n8nrgmi
Do you have the appropriate medical documentation or is this just an anecdotal story?
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@n8nrgmi
I am a genius who has read the Bible and understood a deeper, darker story that you would never believe at first. Are you open-minded to the idea that Satan is the God of OT and that Jesus and Allah are Lucifer?
Disclaimer: I think it's fiction but I have genuine interest in a hidden storyline anyway.
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@Mopac
The death penalty doesn't stop people murdering. So why would the death penalty stop people enjoying a bit of the other?
Given that your referring to fallible men, whose primary mind drives are survival and sex.
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@BrotherDThomas
--> @Stephen, @Mopac, @zedvictor4, @n8nrgmi.n8nrgmi,YOUR SATANIC REWRITING OF THE BIBLE QUOTE: "the science is overwhelming that that story of noah is a myth, a bible error"HELLO? We are not talking about subsequent science, we are talking about Jesus' TRUE WORDS within the scriptures at the time they were written, GET IT, FOOL?! When you Satanically proffer that our God's Great Flood did not happen, then you are not only calling Jesus a LIAR within His inspired word, but you are calling Matthew, Peter, Luke, and Paul as LIARS as well!!! Who in the Hell do you think you are?!When you Satanically state that the Great Flood is a myth, then you slap the faces of Jesus, Matthew, Peter, Luke, and Paul in their New Testament writings because they mentioned Noah and the Great Flood in the following passages; Matthew 24:38-39, Hebrews 11:7, 2 Peter 2:5, Luke 17:27, 1 Peter 3:-21. Essentially, you are calling the aforementioned bible characters as LIARS which is blaspheme towards Jesus as God!You are guilty of the following passages, where you are no more a Christian than MOPAC because you deny Noah's Great Flood! You accept the ENTIRE BIBLE for what it represents because you DO NOT have the godly authority to say otherwise, and if you can't, then you discard it altogether and become a Hell Bound Atheist, understood?!"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Galations 1-6)“EVERY word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.“ (Proverbs 30:5) EVERY word includes the Great Flood, fool!“And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD of God.” (Luke 4:4). Every word of our God Yahweh/Jesus/Spirit includes the passages of the Great Flood that YOU deny happened at your expense upon Judgment Day!“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” (2 Timothy 4:3)N8nrgmi, as it can be seen, you too are vying to be as bible ignorant and dumbfounded as MOPAC, therefore turning yourself into another minion of Satan at DebateArt! BLASPHEME!
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I don't see why you think any of the above applies to me?
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@n8nrgmi
i dont think it's realisitc to think a retina would just heal itself like that.
So you jump to conclusions instead of waiting what actually went on as in qualified individuals provide evidence to assert something. Okay.
i can't say it's impossible, though. so, what about that proposition i always give? can you find something like a healed retina happening to an atheist? i know you can find inexplicable things, but not things that look like violations of the laws of nature.
Shifting the burden to me as I am the one who believes in God. I don't you do.
we have someone getting their vision restored from an irrevresible disease. yet, you insist there's no evidence of the supernatural when it's right in front of you. like an ostrich that sticks its head in the sand
Why didn't you link a science paper instead? We can observe the person's retina before an after with the qualified individuals then they can give their take but no you gave a news source and a Biblical link.
Do you have a science paper dedicated to this or is your point not supported with evidence?
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@keithprosser
But this verse also says homosexuality is immoral.As I said, I couldn't find a verse against slavery per se, but slave trading was equated to other immoral acts.
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@TheRealNihilist
The David and Jonathan verse is the closest the Bible gets to not condemning homosexuality, and it's not that close!
In reality, the bible consistently condems homosexuality. Nor does it condemn slavery. The bible reflects the moral viiews of its human authors from 2-6000 years ago. We have moved on ethically, but the written word can't change. Scripture-based religions suffer because the 'letter' becomes more important than the 'spirit' and orthodoxy rules over reason.
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@keithprosser
Okay. It is just the way you say it makes it seem like you found a quote that the Bible has that they are pro-homosexuality. The quote would have to talk about sexuality not just love due to the differences there are in love.The David and Jonathan verse is the closest the Bible gets to not condemning homosexuality, and it's not that close!
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@Mopac
The bible is certainly not for the godless to interpret
It's not for anyone to interpret, as every believer knows the bible god never said "let there be light". The book starts with a lie, no interpretation is needed, it's a book of lies.
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@TheRealNihilist
It was a subtle flame, but only Mopac responded to the suggestion David was gay.
There almost certainly was a king david, but I don't think we can treat the Bible's account of him as reliable history.
David and Jonathan were often portrayed homoerotically in art (cf Michaeangelo's David and Donatello's David, also
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Frederic_Leighton_-_Jonathan_token_to_David_-_c.1868.jpg) but there's no guarantee Jonathan even existed.
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@keithprosser
It was a subtle flame, but only Mopac responded to the suggestion David was gay.There almost certainly was a king david, but I don't think we can treat the Bible's account of him as reliable history.David and Jonathan were often portrayed homoerotically in art (cf Michaeangelo's David and Donatello's David, alsohttps://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Frederic_Leighton_-_Jonathan_token_to_David_-_c.1868.jpg) but there's no guarantee Jonathan even existed.
Maybe he has societally agreed women external actions that are percieved to be homosexual or something.
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@n8nrgmi
n8nrgmi,
YOUR UNANSWERED SATANIC QUOTE TO MY POST #27: "it blows my mind how much of a heretic and sinner you are. and you are obstinate in your sin, despite having been shown the truth."
Ahhhh, we see that you are taking the same fallacious way that the inept MOPAC and DR. FRANKLIN take, and that is blowing smoke instead of addressing my post that shows you to be a RUNAWAY from Jesus' true words!
Here, let me remind you once again, address the FACT that when you state the Great Flood was a myth, then you are guilty of the following BIBLICAL FACTS, GET IT FOOL?
When you Satanically state that the Great Flood is a myth, then you slap the faces of Jesus, Matthew, Peter, Luke, and Paul in their New Testament writings because they mentioned Noah and the Great Flood in the following passages; Matthew 24:38-39, Hebrews 11:7, 2 Peter 2:5, Luke 17:27, 1 Peter 3:-21. Essentially, you are calling the aforementioned bible characters as LIARS which is blaspheme towards Jesus as God!
"I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel not that there is another gospel, but there are some who are confusing you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ." (Galations 1-6)
WHAT IS GOING TO BE YOUR NEXT EXCUSE TO RUN AWAY FROM YOUR BIBLE IGNORANCE SHOWN ABOVE? HUH? ARE YOU VYING TO BE AS DUMBFOUNDED AS DR. FRANKLIN AND MOPAC?
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