Contradictions in the Bible thread!!

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11.11.2019 06:34AM

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@Dr.Franklin

Really?

Yes, REALY!!!!!. Why do you have to ask after I have already said that I agree with you? Do you not think it is? That is like me asking you is the bible true although you have stated that it is.

#36

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11.11.2019 06:38AM

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@PGA2.0

Again, I don't see his list as contradictions.

Of course you don't. This saves you from having to explain away these very obvious contractions. Like I have said. Atheist were challenged to post biblical contradictions here and now you complain that far too many have been posted.

#37

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11.11.2019 12:17PM

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@ethang5

83 days later, how many contradictions in the bible have been listed here so far?

You weren't too happy that I searched the net ( it took only 5 seconds) and I posted nearly two hundred New Testament contradictions . So let's have less of your whining and whinging that I have only posted one hundred Old Testament:

Man was created equal, male and female. Gen.1:27.

Woman was created as a companion to the man only after he rejected the animals. Gen.2:18-24.

Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26.
Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.
The birds were created out of the water. Gen.1:20.
The birds were created out of the land. Gen.2:19.
The animals were created before man. Gen.1:24-26.
The animals were created after man. Gen.2:19.
On the first day, God created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:3-5.
On the fourth day, God again created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:14-18.
God encouraged reproduction. Gen.1:28.
He said it was an unclean process. Lev.12:1-8 (Note that bearing a daughter is more unclean than bearing a son).
God was pleased with his creation. Gen.1:31.
God was not pleased with his creation. Gen.6:6.
Adam was to die the day he ate the forbidden fruit. Gen.2:17.
Adam lived 930 years. Gen.5:5.
The name of "The Lord" was known in the beginning. Gen.4:26; Gen.12:8; Gen.22:14; Gen.26:25.
The name of "The Lord" was not known in the beginning. Ex.6:3.
God preferred Abel's offering to Cain's. Gen.4:4, 5.
God shows no partiality. 2 Chr.19:7; 2 Sam.14:14.
God asks Cain the whereabouts of his brother. Gen.4:9.
God goes to see what is happening. Gen.18:20, 21.
God is everywhere and sees everything. Prov.15:3; Jer.16:17; Jer.23:24.
It rained on the earth. Gen.7:4.
There was rain from above and below. Gen.8:2.
Two pairs of each kind were to be taken aboard Noah's ark. Gen.6:19, 20; Gen.7:9, 14-16.
Two pairs and seven pairs of some kinds were to be taken aboard. Gen.7:2, 3.
Noah entered the ark during the Flood. Gen.7:7.
Noah entered the ark after the Flood. Gen.7:12, 13.
There were many languages before the tower at Babel. Gen.10:5, 20, 31.
There was only one language before the tower at Babel. Gen.11:1.
Abraham married his half-sister and was blessed. Gen.11:29; Gen.17:15,16; Gen.20:11,12.
Incest is wrong. Deut.27:22; Lev. 18:9; Lev. 20:17.
Abraham made a covenant with Abimelech and Phichol. Gen.21:22, 27, 32.
It was Isaac who made the covenant with Abimelech and Phichol. Gen.26:26-28.
Hebron was the name at the time of Abraham. Gen.23:2.
Hebron was named differently. Josh.14:15.
Jacob's name was changed at Peniel. Gen.32:28-30.
Jacob's name was changed at Padanaram. Gen.35:9,10.
Isaac's servants dug a well at Beer-shebah. Gen.26:32, 33.
Abraham dug a well at Beer-shebah. Gen.21:29-31.
Esau married two Hittite women. Gen.26:34.
Esau married three Canaanite women. Gen.36:2, 3.
Bashemath was a daughter of Elon the Hittite. Gen.26:34.
Bashemath was a daughter of Ishmael. Gen.36:3.
Luz was renamed Beth-el. Gen.28:19.
Luz was a different place than Beth-el. Josh.16:2.
God renamed Jacob and called him Israel. Gen.35:10.
God forgot the new name. Gen.46:2.
Eliphaz had six sons. Gen.36:11,12.
Eliphaz had seven sons. Gen.36:15,16. Eliphaz had seven different sons. 1 Chr.1:36.
Dan had one son. Gen.46:23.
Amazingly, this one son produced over 62,000 military-age males by the first census. Num.1:38,39.
Moses married a Midianite. Ex.3:1.
Moses married an Ethiopian. Num.12:1.
All the beasts died in plague number six. Ex.9:6.
All the beasts received boils in plague number seven. Ex.9:10.
All the beasts were hit with hail and fire in plague number eight. Ex.9:25.
All the beasts lost their firstborn in plague number ten. Ex.12:29.
All the plant life was destroyed by hail. Ex.9:25.
All the plant life was destroyed by locusts. Ex.10:15.
God instructs the Israelites to spoil the Egyptians and plunder their enemies. Ex.3:22; Deut.20:13-17.
God prohibits stealing or defrauding a neighbor. Lev.19:11,13.
Moses' father-in-law proposed the idea of judges for the people. Ex.18:17, 24.
Moses proposed the idea of judges for the people. Deut.1:9-18.
Jethro was the name of Moses' father-in-law. Ex.3:1.
Ruel was the name of Moses' father-in-law. Ex.2:18.
Raguel was the name of Moses' father-in-law. Num.10:29.
Hobab was the name of Moses' father-in-law. Jud.4:11.
The priests were with Moses at Mount Sinai. Ex.19:22, 24.
Moses appointed the first priests later in the wilderness. Ex.28:1.
Moses was great. Ex.11:3.
Moses was meek. Numbers 12:3.
Moses was the only allowed near God. Ex.24:2.
Moses was not the only one allowed. Ex.24:9-11.
Moses condemned the making of an idol. Ex.32:19, 20.
Moses made an idol. Num.21:9; 2 Ki.18:4.
The commandments were memorably given at the beginning of the wilderness trek. Ex. 19 and 20.
The people appeared not to remember later in the wilderness. Lev.24:12; Num.15:34.
Moses told the people they would pass over the Jordan that day. Deut.9:1.
It was Joshua who took them over much later. Josh.1:1, 2.
The number of Israelites, excluding children, was 600,000. Ex.12:37.
The number of Israelites, including children, was only 7000. 1 Ki.20:15.
Manna tasted like coriander seed and honey. Ex.16:31.
Manna tasted like fresh oil. Num.11:8.

Cont.....

#38

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11.11.2019 12:20PM

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@ethang5

Cont..... from above

1 The Sabbath Day was to remember creation. Ex.20:11; Ex. 31:17.

The Sabbath Day was to remember the sojourn in Egypt. Deut.5:15.
God details sacrificial offerings. Ex.20:24; Ex.29:10-42; Lev.1:1-17; Num.28:1-31.
God says he did not order sacrifices. Jer.7:22.
The Book of Jasher was written at the time of Joshua. Josh.10:13.
The Book of Jasher was written at the time of David. 2 Sam.1:17,18.
The Israelites were a numerous and mighty people. Ex.1:8, 9.
The Israelites were few in number. Deut.7:7.
The Israelites had plenty of water to wash their clothes for purification. Ex.19:10.
The Israelites had no water and rioted for a drink. Ex.15:22-24.
God was with the people. Ex.3:12.
God was not with the people. Ex.33:3.
Aaron died on Mt. Hor. Num.20:27, 28; 33:38,39.
Aaron died at Mosera. Deut.10:6.
After Aaron's death, the people journeyed from Mt. Hor to Zalmonah to Punon etc. Num.33:41, 42.
After Aaron's death, the people journeyed from Mosera to Gudgodah to Jotbath. Deut.10:6, 7.
The Canaanites were utterly destroyed. Num.21:3.
The Canaanites were left to trouble the Israelites for years. Jud.3:1,2.
Stones were taken out of the Jordan River. Josh.4:3.
Stones were placed in the Jordan River. Josh.4:9.
The Nazarite vow is broken if one goes near a dead body. Numb.6:6-9.
Sampson, a Nazarite, apparently did not break this vow. Jud.13:5; 15:8,15,16; 16:17.
Samuel ministered to the "Lord". 1 Sam.3:1.
Samuel did not know the "Lord". 1 Sam.3:7.
David killed Goliath. 1 Sam.17:49,50.
Elhanan killed Goliath. 2 Sam.21:19-21. (Notice that the phrase "the brother of" has been added).
"God" caused David to number the people. 2 Sam.24:1.
"Satan" caused David to number the people. 1 Chr.21:1.
Saul utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 1 Sam.15:20.
David utterly destroyed the Amalekites. 1 Sam.27:8, 9.
David destroyed the Amalekites - again - almost. 1 Sam.30:1,17,18.
God chose Saul to save the people from the Philistines. 1 Sam.9:15-17.
Saul dies and the Philistines overrun the Israelites. 1 Sam.31:6, 7.
God chose Saul. 1 Sam.9:16.
God repents for choosing Saul. 1 Sam.15:35.
God doesn't need to repent. Num. 23:19.
Saul inquired of God but received no answer. 1 Sam.28:6.
Saul died for not inquiring. 1 Chr.10:13, 14.
Saul killed himself. 1 Sam.31:4; 1 Chr. 10:4, 5.
Someone killed Saul. 2 Sam.1:5-10.
The Philistines killed Saul. 2 Sam.21:12.
God killed Saul. 1 Chr.10:13,14.
Jesse had eight sons. 1 Sam.16:10, 11; 1 Sam.17:12.
Jesse had seven sons. 1 Chr.2:13-15.
Saul knew David before the encounter with Goliath. 1 Sam.16:19.
Saul did not know David until after the encounter with Goliath. 1 Sam.17:55-58.
Michal was childless. 2 Sam.6:23.
Michal had five sons. 2 Sam.21:8.
David sinned in taking the census. 2 Sam.24:10,25.
David's only sin, ever, was another matter. 1 Ki.15:5.
David paid 50 pieces of silver for the property. 2 Sam.24:24.
David paid 600 pieces of gold for the property. 1 Chr.21:25.
His name was Solomon. 2 Sam.12:24; 1 Chr.22:9.
His name was Jedidiah. 2 Sam.12:25.
Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses. 1 Ki.4:26.
Solomon had 4,000 stalls of horses. 2 Chr.9:25.
Solomon had 3300 supervisors. 1 Ki.5:16.
Solomon had 3600 supervisors. 2 Chr.2:2.
Solomon's "molten sea" held 2000 "baths". 1 Ki.7:26.
Solomon's "molten sea" held 3000 "baths". 2 Chr.4:5.
Solomon had thousands of horses. 1 Ki.4:26.
A King must not multiply horses to himself. Deut.17:15,16.
Solomon had hundreds of wives. 1 Ki.11:1-3.
A King must not multiply wives to himself. Deut.17:17.
There was no greater king before or after Hezekiah. 2 Ki.18:1, 5.
There was no greater king before or after Josiah. 2 Ki.23:24, 25.
Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he began to reign. 2 Ki.8:26.
Ahaziah succeeded his father, who was thirty-two years old when he became king and who ruled for eight years. 2 Chr.21;20.
He was forty-two years old when he began to reign. 2 Chr.22:2. (Note that some versions have caught the error and corrected it.)
God prohibits the making of idols. Ex.20:4; Deut.5:8, 9.
God commands idols to be made. Ex.25:18; Num.21:8, 9.
Children are to suffer for their parent's sins. Ex.20:5; Ex.34:7; Num.14:18; Deut.5:9; Is.14:21.
Children are not to suffer for their parent's sins. Deut.24:16; Ezek.18:19,20.
God prohibits the killing of the innocent. Ex.23:7.
God approves the killing of the innocent. Num.31:17; Josh.6:21; Josh.7:24-26; Josh.8:22-25; Josh.10:20, 40; Josh.11:15; 1 Sam.15:3.
God inflicts sickness. Num.11:33; 2 Chr.21:14, 15.
Satan inflicts sickness. Job 2:7.
Death to a false prophet. Deut.18:20.
Death also to a real prophet deceived by "God". Ezek.14:9.
God remembers sin even when it has been forgiven. Ex.34:7.
God does not remember sin after it has been forgiven. Jer.31:34.
God promised the land to the people. Ex.12:25.
God broke his promise. Num.14:30, 31.
Sisera was sleeping when Jael killed him. Jud.4:21.
Sisera was standing and apparently, allowed Jael to kill him. Jud.5:25-27.
Joshua captured Debir. Josh.10:38,39.
Othniel captured Debir. Jud.1:11-13.
God sows discord. Gen.11:7-9.
God hates those who cause discord. Prov.6:16-19.
The census count was: Israel 800,000 and Judah 500,000. 2 Sam.24:9.
The census count was: Israel 1,100,000 and Judah 470,000. 1 Chr.21:5.
The two pillars were 18 cubits high. 1 Ki.7:15.
The two pillars were 35 cubits high. 2 Chr.3:15.
420 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir. 1 Ki.9:28.
450 talents of gold were brought back from Ophir. 2 Chr.8:18.
Asa removed the high places. 2 Chr.14:2, 3.
Asa did not remove the high places. 1 Ki.15:14.
Baasha died in the 26tth year of King Asa's reign. 1 Ki.16:6-8.
Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign. 2 Chr.16:1.
Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places. 1 Ki.22:42, 43.
Jehoshaphat did remove the high places. 2 Chr.17:5, 6.
Jehu's massacre was acceptable to God. 2 Ki.10:30.
Jehu's massacre was not acceptable to God. Hos.1:4.
Jehu shot Ahaziah near Ibleam. Ahaziah then fled to Meggido and died there. 2 Ki.9:27.
Ahaziah was found hiding in Samaria, brought to Jehu, and was then put to death. 2 Chr.22:9.
Ahaz was not conquered. 2 Ki.165.
Ahaz was conquered. 2 Chr.28:5.
Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign. 2 Ki.24:8.
Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign. 2 Chr.36:9. (Some versions have corrected this)
Jehoiachin reigned 3 months. 2 Ki.24:8.
Jehoiachin reigned 3 months and 10 days. 2 Chr.36:9.
Jehoiachin was succeeded by his uncle. 2 Ki.24:17.
Jehoiachin was succeeded by his brother. 2 Chr.36:10.
The father of Zerubbabel was Pedaiah. 1 Chr.3:19.
The father of Zerubbabel was Shealtiel. Ezr.3:2.
God is near to all who call on him. Ps.145:18.
God is far away and cannot be found in times of need. Ps.10:1.
God sometimes forsakes his children. Ps.22:1, 2.
God is always a present help. Ps.46:1.
The righteous shall rejoice when he sees vengeance. Ps.58:10, 11.
Do not rejoice when your enemy falls or stumbles. Prov.24:17.
God stands to judge. Is.3:13.
God sits to judge. Joel 3:12.
Zedekiah watched his sons be put to death, then he had his eyes put out, and was left to die in prison. Jer.52:10, 11.
God promised Zedekiah a peaceful death. Jer.34:4, 5.
Omri reigned 12 years beginning in the 31st year of Asa's reign. 1 Ki.16:23.
Omri died and his son began his reign in the 38th year of Asa's reign, making Omri's reign only 7-years. 1 Ki.16:28, 29.

#39

Dr.Franklin

Debates: 32

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Dr.Franklin

11.11.2019 01:31PM

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@Stephen

Your an atheist

#40

ludofl3x

Debates: 0

Posts: 2,008

ludofl3x

11.11.2019 02:05PM

Seems one thing I can agree with Christians on: biblical contradictions are not material to our beliefs or lack thereof. Listing stuff like this looks like nitpicks, most of them. Bottom line is the book has a talking donkey in it. Chances are it's not a reliable document. Christians will just say "You can't confirm that donkeys never talked, so it's probably just something that changed over time because...sinning." Yes, I know that's not what anyone is arguing, but that's the sort of argumentation you get on biblical contradictions.

Also, contradictions are self evident. If I say A=A and then say A=B, you're not "claiming" I've contradicted myself. You're pointing it out. I can't then say "Well prove A=A and A=B is a contradiction otherwise it isn't."

#41

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11.11.2019 06:13PM

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@Dr.Franklin

Your an atheist

Who said? I have told you, I believe everything the bible has to say, I also accept that there are undoubtedly contradictions in the text. I just don't look at the bible or read it like some fawning, cowering, backward medieval peasant who cannot read or think for himself.

#42

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 07:25PM

Since Stephen has blocked me (IMO, blocking hampers my freedom of speech in responding directly to him yet gets to reply to my posts directly) I will answer a few of his alleged contradictions to show others he has no grounds for his charges.

I will take a few more of these alleged contradictions to give you the reader other examples.

Man was created equal, male and female. Gen.1:27.
Woman was created as a companion to the man only after he rejected the animals. Gen.2:18-24.

Again, Stephen reads into Scripture. He manufactures a contradiction by doing this. His eisegetic take is noted. Where does it say that Adam rejected the animals? That passage tells how he named them. Again, God created the animals after their kind.

Genesis 1: 24-25(NASB)

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so. 25 God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good.

Adam was a different kind of creation and no companion was yet made for him. How is that a contradiction? As for being created equal in God's sight, that does not mean they were created with the same FUNCTIONS or roles. Since Adam was created first, Adam was given the task of headship over the woman. That is a difference of role and function, not of worth.

God made Adam, then Eve in His image and likeness, different from the animals, and to rule over the other creatures of the earth.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Notice the distinction, God created him [Adam], and then it says, "male and female He created them." Adam first. It also shows that they were both created --> them.

#43

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 07:59PM

Man was created after the plants. Gen.1:12, 26.
Man was created before the plants. Gen.2:5-9.

Genesis 1 is a chronological order of the creation.

Genesis 2 is speaking of a specific event after verse 7, the creation of Adam. Verse 8 onward speaks of the creation of the place God prepared for him - the Garden and putting him in that place.

***

Genesis 2:1 summarizes the last chapter or something related to what was before, per 'thus.'

2 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

By the seventh day, God's work of creation is complete. 'Then' signifies something subsequent.

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.

I.e., Day 1.

5 Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.

I.e., Now --> Still Day 1.

6 But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the ground.

I.e., Consecutive days, per the Genesis 1 account.

7 Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Then implies after. From Genesis 1, this would be Day 6 when the man was created.

8 The Lord God planted a garden toward the east, in Eden; and there He placed the man whom He had formed.

Subsequently, after creating the man and from the man the woman later on the same day, He then plants a garden (Eden) for the man and woman. The garden is made and planted after He creates the man and woman. Then, later, He puts the man and later the woman in the Garden.

9 Out of the ground the Lord God caused to grow every tree that is pleasing to the sight and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Out of the ground,...what ground? The ground in the Garden of Eden. God causes every tree to grow in this garden, including the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Thus, there is no contradiction here. By excluding verses 1-4 you again omit relevant information. This is what detractors of the Bible always do. They remove the context or they read into the context things it does not say or teach (eisegesis).

#44

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:00PM

The birds were created out of the water. Gen.1:20.
The birds were created out of the land. Gen.2:19.

20 Then God said, “Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.”

Again, this verse does not say God created the birds out of water (i.e., bodies of water like ponds, lakes, rivers, seas, oceans or whatever). It says to let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures (i.e., sea creatures) and let the birds fly above the earth. There is no information given here about where the birds were created, from the land or from the water.

Thus there is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2 regarding the birds. Thus, Stephen's take is disingenuous once again.

#45

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:03PM

The animals were created before man. Gen.1:24-26.
The animals were created after man. Gen.2:19.

This alleged contradiction can be explained in one of two ways that come to my mind.

1. Again, the account of the Garden is after the six-day creation per Genesis 2:1-7. The animals in the Garden were created after the man. Since Genesis 2 is dealing with the Garden after the initial verses 1-7, it is describing specifics from the Garden.

Or,

2. Verse 18 and 19 may not be related in a sequential sense like you are implying but verse 19 separated in an informational sense. Verse 19 may yet once again be disclosing how the beasts and birds were created, also from the ground as the man was, to inform the reader how they were made. Then once He created the man He brought them to the man to name.

18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”19 Out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.

#46

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:06PM

4. On the first day, God created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:3-5.

On the fourth day, God again created and separated light and darkness. Gen.1:14-18.

Again, this surmise comes from misunderstanding of what is being said.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17 God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Although God created and separated the light and darkness on Day 1 the division of light in Genesis 1:14-19 is for the purpose of timekeeping. Up until Day 4, there is nothing for humanity to use to keep track of time. To separate the day from the night that humanity could keep track of time God creates the sun, moon and stars (the stars in addition to the sun and moon also act as a reference point for navigation). He places them [sun, moon, and stars] in the expanse of the heavens and separates the two bodies, moon and sun, one for nighttime and one for daytime.

#47

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:09PM

God encouraged reproduction. Gen.1:28.
He said it was an unclean process. Lev.12:1-8 (Note that bearing a daughter is more unclean than bearing a son).

Although God encourages reproduction there were times to rest and recover from this process.

Lev. 12:2b, 4

2b ‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. 4 Then she shall remain in the blood of her purification for thirty-three days; she shall not touch any consecrated thing, nor enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are completed.

This period was also for the recovery and protection of the woman. There is also a lot of symbolism involved. That symbolism signified the curse God instituted with the Fall, where He decreed that,

16 To the woman He said,

“I will greatly multiply

Your pain in childbirth,

In pain you will bring forth children;

The period of uncleanliness can be explained in relation to the Fall. It was a reminder of the consequences of sin and the Fall and the woman's role in it. Since only the woman bears children through pregnancy it reminded her of the original sin and separation from God. During that time frame, she could not participate in worship in the presence of God as a reminder.

5 But if she bears a female child, then she shall be unclean for two weeks, as in her menstruation; and she shall remain in the blood of her purification for sixty-six days.

I do not understand the difference yet between the duration of uncleanliness of the male and female offspring. That requires some additional verses that I am unfamiliar with at present.

6 ‘When the days of her purification are completed, for a son or for a daughter, she shall bring to the priest at the doorway of the tent of meeting a one year old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a turtledove for a sin offering. 7 Then he shall offer it before the Lord and make atonement for her, and she shall be cleansed from the flow of her blood. This is the law for her who bears a child, whether a male or a female. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, then she shall take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, the one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’”

The whole sacrificial system is a picture or shadow of Jesus Christ. The type (OT) points forward to the antitype (NT). We see that sin is costly. It requires a sacrifice to make amends. The problem was that the OT system of sacrifice could never end the process. As soon as another sin occurred another sacrifice was needed. Jesus' one time sacrifice sealed once for all time the righteousness that God sought from the sinner.

The sacrifice after that period of uncleanness was a restoration to relationship with God. The whole process is also a shadowing or type (it teaches the Christian a spiritual truth), a lesson if you like, of what takes place when a person is born again. That alienation is restored in Christ and the regenerated person has fellowship and intimate relationship with God once again. They are no longer unclean because the sacrifice of the One [Jesus Christ] is sufficient to meet God's holy and righteous requirements.

***

The laws of agriculture imparted by God to the Israelites were also a reminder of the curse of Adam's disobedience and the work and sweat involved in taking care of the ground.

#48

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:10PM

God was pleased with his creation. Gen.1:31.
God was not pleased with his creation. Gen.6:6.

He deemed the creation "very good" until sin was found in it. Up until the point of sin, Adam had an intimate relationship with God in the Garden, signified with the expression of God walking with Him. At the point of sin, Adam was alienated from God and barred from His intimate presence. At the point of sin, Adam realized he was naked and at that point he was ashamed.

Genesis 6:6 shows the progression of sinful humanity to the point where God is so displeased with humanity that He judges them, yet spares the eight in grace and mercy.

#49

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.11.2019 08:16PM

Adam was to die the day he ate the forbidden fruit. Gen.2:17.
Adam lived 930 years. Gen.5:5.

Adam did die the day he ate of it. There is physical death and spiritual death. Adam dies spiritually to God that day. That very day Adam and Eve were barred from the Garden and that close relationship they shared with the holy God because of sin. Jesus taught that a man (humanity) must be born again to either see or enter the kingdom of God. Spiritual birth is a restoration into the intimate presence of God. We are no longer considered enemies of God because of our sin and unrighteousness because of what Another has done on behalf of the believer.

Notice that God barred Adam from eating of the tree of life and living forever physically. So Adam did not die physically that day, only spiritually. Thus, the death experienced on that day was spiritual death, a killing of the intimate relationship with God where God shares Himself in close relationship to Adam and Eve. The Son became human to restore that relationship. Out of Him and what He has done, symbolically or spiritually speaking, comes living water and manna from heaven. Jesus gives us real life with God once again and restores the relationship.

Since God is Spirit those who worship must worship in spirit and in truth and that is obtained via Jesus Christ, the way and the truth.

So, as you can see, there is a reasonable and logical explanation for each of Stephen's alleged contradictions that make sense. It is through ignorance and misunderstanding of God's word that these alleged contradictions are charged. I tackled the first seven to give an example.

The NT is very concerned about the spiritual as opposed to the natural.

#50

Debates: 2

Posts: 2,140

11.12.2019 05:49AM

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@PGA2.0

PGA2.0,

YOUR UNGODLY EMBARRASSING QUOTE: “Since God is Spirit those who worship must worship in spirit and in truth and that is obtained via Jesus Christ, the way and the truth. “

You have Satanically stated ad infinitum that our serial killer Yahweh God is a spirit only, and without a physical body. How do you sleep at night with your outright biblical ignorance regarding your claim?!

There are many instances within the scriptures that show our Jewish Yahweh as a physical being, like the time Moses saw our God’s ass!!! For obvious reasons you seemingly forgot about this godly happening, eh? DO NOT be embarrassed about the facts of our Yahweh, understood? The TRUE Christians like myself accept these biblical axioms and just move on.

Let me quickly address your bible ignorance, where ol’ Moses is chatting with our serial killer Yahweh “face to face” as one speaks to a friend. Moses asks Yahweh the following: “Show me your glory, I pray” (Exodus 33:8). But, Yahweh says; “You cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live,” (Ex 33:20) A few verses before Moses talked “face to face” with Yahweh, but now Yahweh says Moses can’t see his face. Uh, okay.

Now in Ex 21:23 Yahweh says Moses can SEE HIM, partially that is, when He stated: “Then the Lord said, “There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you WITH MY HAND until I have passed by. Then I will REMOVE MY HAND and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.” (Exodus 21;23)

Yahweh once again shows us that he is anthropomorphic by having a “HAND like humans. Anyway, Yahweh then covers Moses face with his HAND and removes said HAND when He passes by Moses! Yahweh did show Himself and was seen by Moses, but only showed his backside, which equals Yahweh’s ASS! If Yahweh had a “HAND” therefore he had an ASS as well! GET IT? Huh?

Now, if you want to make a greater fool of yourself amongst the brethren of DEBATEART, try and spin doctor this narrative away with actual BIBLICAL vouchsafing instead of opinion dribble this time, understood? Jesus and I get so tired of addressing the most ignorant of His following in DebateArt.

YOUR STEPPING IN POO QUOTE, AGAIN: “It is through ignorance and misunderstanding of God's word that these alleged contradictions are charged. I tackled the first seven to give an example.”

GREAT, now to save what face you have left, you only have 293 left to Satanically decipher of the New Testament godly contradictions! What are the next 7 are you going to bring forth? Yahweh only knows that Ethang couldn’t defend our Yahweh God like our bible says to do, where at least you are “TRYING,” I repeat, “TRYING” to erroneously perform this ungodly act!

We are waiting, with NO EXCUSES, for you to continue in allegedly showing no contradictions is the said previous NT passages. BEGIN.

#51

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

11.12.2019 08:26AM

There are undoubtedly , what some may refer to as 'trivial' contradictions but contradictions all the same.

But there are without doubt some contradictions that are damming to Christianity in my opinion.

A clear example is that of the so called 'Great Commision'. One must keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew, plain and simple. In Fact he was king of the Jews no less. Not king of the Christians

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A19&version=KJV

The twelve were sent with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A5%E2%80%936&version=KJV

So, plainly this then is not a universal message. And again we see it with the encounter with the Canaanite woman:

[Jesus denied her plea to heal her daughter, saying] “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (Matthew 15:24–6)

If we go back to the Old Testament we won't find an all-inclusive message there, either. The Israelites were God’s “Chosen People,” and God had some choice words to say about anyone not "his people":

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of Jehovah, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

God also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

#52

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

11.12.2019 08:31AM

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@PGA2.0

Since Stephen has blocked me (IMO, blocking hampers my freedom of speech in responding directly to him yet gets to reply to my posts directly)

Yes I forget that I had you on block. But I do now remember why it was I had you blocked in the first place. So in all fairness, I won't respond to any more of your tedious convoluted drivel again.

#53

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

11.12.2019 12:34PM

Lol. Stephen posts a wall-o-text, and then calls the Christians answer, "tedious convoluted drivel" and goes on to continue posting mountains of tedious convoluted drivel.

I know you have to demonstrate that PGA, but you are a more patient man than I.

#54

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

11.12.2019 12:45PM

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@ethang5

Lol. Stephen posts a wall-o-text, and then calls the Christians answer, "tedious convoluted drivel" and goes on to continue posting mountains of tedious convoluted drivel.

And still not addressing the issue of these quite clear and obvious biblical contradictions yourself but would rather leave it to some other sucker, although it was you who through down the challenge, here.. post 9 page one.

83 days later, how many contradictions in the bible have been listed here so far?

Don't make me laugh. I don't believe this subject is a laughing matter. There are CLEAR contradictions in these scriptures no matter how many times you attempt to deny they exist.

Now why don't YOU be brave enough to take on this little blinder?

There are without doubt some contradictions that are damming to Christianity in my opinion.

A clear example is that of the so called 'Great Commision'. One must keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew, plain and simple. In Fact he was king of the Jews no less. Not king of the Christians

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+28%3A19&version=KJV

The twelve were sent with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10%3A5%E2%80%936&version=KJV

So, plainly this then is not a universal message. And again we see it with the encounter with the Canaanite woman:

[Jesus denied her plea to heal her daughter, saying] “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (Matthew 15:24–6)

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of Jehovah, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

God also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

All yours ethang5. don't tax your brain and please take your time.

#55

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.12.2019 04:29PM

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@ethang5

Lol. Stephen posts a wall-o-text, and then calls the Christians answer, "tedious convoluted drivel" and goes on to continue posting mountains of tedious convoluted drivel.

I just wanted to point out that all his charges have reasonable and logical answers that these biblical haters ignore, and as you say with the wall of texts (four pages on 200 supposed contradictions), they can't see the speck in someone else's eyes because they have a plank in their own. It is also known as hypocrisy.

I would never go through the whole list. It would take to long.

I know you have to demonstrate that PGA, but you are a more patient man than I.

I don't know about patience, ethang5. (^8

#56

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

11.12.2019 04:49PM

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@Stephen

And still not addressing the issue of these quite clear and obvious biblical contradictions yourself

I did. You misquoted Jesus.

but would rather leave it to some other sucker, although it was you who through down the challenge, here.. post 9 page one.

You still haven't posted a single contradiction. PGA just dispatched 8 of them and I showed you faked a verse to gain a contradiction.

Don't make me laugh. I don't believe this subject is a laughing matter.

Then you shouldn't have posted so many lame jokes.

There are CLEAR contradictions in these scriptures no matter how many times you attempt to deny they exist.

I don't have to deny anything you simply assert. Show the contradiction.

Now why don't YOU be brave enough to take on this little blinder?

There are without doubt some contradictions that are damming to Christianity in my opinion.

No one cares about your biased opinion. Do you have any logical facts?

A clear example is that of the so called 'Great Commision'. One must keep in mind that Jesus was a Jew, plain and simple. In Fact he was king of the Jews no less. Not king of the Christians

Matthew 28:19 King James Version (KJV)
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

The twelve were sent with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6)

So, plainly this then is not a universal message.

That is illogical. It was simply not time for the message to be given to all. Your conclusion that it was not universal is rash and unfounded. Later, Paul is sent to the gentiles with the same message.

And again we see it with the encounter with the Canaanite woman:
[Jesus denied her plea to heal her daughter, saying] “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

Jesus Himself was sent to the lost sheep. His message was universal, as evidenced by the fact that He did heal her daughter.

The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.
He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” (Matthew 15:24–6)

And yet Jesus helped her. Are you confused?

If we go back to the Old Testament we won't find an all-inclusive message there, either. The Israelites were God’s “Chosen People,” and God had some choice words to say about anyone not "his people":

Jesus said Moses wrote of Him. And when Jesus taught in the temple, He taught from the OT.

The bible is the story of God revealing Himself and His message. It was not done all at once. Abraham knew less than Isaiah, who in turn knew less than John.

No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of Jehovah, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).

God also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).

Where is the contradiction?

All yours ethang5. don't tax your brain and please take your time.

I can't see into your head Stephen. I'm sure its crystal clear to you, but you have to bring it out of your noggin.

What exactly is the contradiction?

#57

Debates: 2

Posts: 2,140

11.12.2019 06:11PM

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@ethang5

@Stephen

@PGA2.0

ethang5,

Tell us, why do you allow yourself to be made the fake Christian on DebateArt? Look at you running away from the Hell bound Atheist named Steven like you are doing, and as he said, you laid down the premise of no contradictions in the first place, and now you are being a namby pamby pretend Christian in front of DebateArt by not addressing each one of his alleged contradictions! Why?

Did your bible ignorance forget that you are to defend our Yahweh's faith? Huh? You are letting the Atheist Steven outright OWN YOU, ENOUGH!

Stand up for Jesus or leave Christianity altogether because we don't want lilly-livered Christians amongst our ranks, understood?! Now engage Steven because this is your fight, and don't bury yourself further by putting the onus upon someone else to do your work!

JESUS' WORDS SAYS YOU ARE TO DEFEND THE FAITH:

"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ," (2 Corinthians 10:5)

"He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it." (Titus 1:9)

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, (1 Peter 3:15)

Ethang, I would hate to be you upon Judgment Day when you meet the Savior and He brings up the fact that you ran away from an Atheist in not defending the faith!

PGA2.0,

Are you trying to outdo the fake Christian Ethang5 in running away from the scriptures as well? Huh? I addressed your comical biblical ignorance in post #50 within this thread, and as of yet, you have not answered this said post whereas you have addressed others subsequently. Why? Are you as embarrassed as Ethang5 with your bible ignorance as well?

The two of you are just another example of why many do not join Christianity in the 21st century, and that is because of your Satanic actions of truly not knowing the Bible like you think you do! Thus far, we will mark you as just another RUNAWAY from the Bible's true words by not addressing my post #50. You are truly predictable, and at your expense upon Judgment Day.

Steven,

I am truly sorry that you have to be a part of ethang5's child like runaway modus operandi from his bible concerning the topic at hand. He uses the old ruse that if he can't defend our faith like Jesus says we are to do, he uses a smoke screen to put the onus upon others to do it for him. Yes, child like for sure, but what did we expect from the fake runaway Christian Ethang5? Then you add the equally fake and bible ignorant Christian PGA2.0, and you have a pair of Christians that are trying to outdo the other with their complete biblical ignorance! Where will their bible ignorance take us next? Only Yahweh knows.

Steven, can I ask you a favor? Please don't be too harsh upon these two assumed Christians where they can't take it anymore and leave DebateArt, because like mascots, they are here to be examples of what happens when Satan enters the souls of people that "think" they are Christians. Thanking you in advance.

#58

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

11.12.2019 06:45PM

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@ethang5

Jesus Himself was sent to the lost sheep.

Yes, the lost sheep of Israel NOT Christianity. Jesus the JEW makes that perfectly clear.

No one cares about your biased opinion.

Don't you be so sure.

And yet Jesus helped her.

But not before she pointed out his hypocrisy.

Lol. Stephen posts a wall-o-text,

You got exactly what you asked for and are now bleating and wailing instead of addressing those hundreds of very clear contradictions. And speaking of "wall to wall text" have you must missed the pointless, drivelling babble posted by your dear friend pga who has at least attempted to explain away some of these contradictions that YOU challenged people to post? Go look at the wall to wall of text at posts 18-19-24-43-44-45-46-47-48-49, just mind your eyes don't bleed.

#59

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

11.12.2019 08:33PM

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@BrotherDThomas

PGA2.0,

Are you trying to outdo the fake Christian Ethang5 in running away from the scriptures as well? Huh? I addressed your comical biblical ignorance in post #50 within this thread, and as of yet, you have not answered this said post whereas you have addressed others subsequently. Why? Are you as embarrassed as Ethang5 with your bible ignorance as well?

Sir, you are being a hypocrite. I do not see you addressing the 200 alleged contradictions. Your previous post was also full of accusations that I find out of place for those who profess Yeshua/Jesus. I also find, from your disclosure in Post 50 that you have a weak understanding of Scripture.

The two of you are just another example of why many do not join Christianity in the 21st century, and that is because of your Satanic actions of truly not knowing the Bible like you think you do! Thus far, we will mark you as just another RUNAWAY from the Bible's true words by not addressing my post #50. You are truly predictable, and at your expense upon Judgment Day.

You are judging me for my profession of faith. I am willing to formally debate it with you and find out what your foundation truly rests upon. You apply one scriptural reference while ignoring another. You actually make a big song and dance of a verse of Scripture I used. I will address it later once I think about your post further. I am not impressed.

#60

Debates: 2

Posts: 2,140