-->
@Greyparrot
at one time I thought she was a viable candidate for me, but then she went far left like a lemming.
Hurricane Dorians Pahway. to Alabama { NOT } :--(
Posts
Total:
152
-->
@ebuc
l'm not a socialist and I don't believe in socialism, nor do i want to be many more trillions in debt, who would be my choice to vote for with that criteria? Someone who actually has a chance at a nomination that is.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
she had to in order to win the rigged primary.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
There are almost no economists that will say that FDR's trash economic policies got us out of the Great Depression. Most say that he prolonged it. The only thing that helped us out was the war, which put everyone to work.
Just for fun, I'll add a quote from Henry Morgenthau, FDR's Secretary of Treasury: "We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work."
Now, please tell me a few specific Obama policies that ended the Great Recession, and I will evaluate those.
-->
@bmdrocks21
There are almost no economists that will say that FDR's trash economic policies got us out of the Great Depression. Most say that he prolonged it. The only thing that helped us out was the war, which put everyone to work.
No source cited to back itself up.
Statistics and studies that I've found paint a clear picture that while economists agree that the New Deal wasn't solely responsible for lifting us out of the great depression, they ultimately aided in lifting us out of the great depression.
Here is a rundown of various scholars citing their opinion on the matter.
According to Linda Gordon, professor of history at New York University, the Works Progress Administration, created in 1935, also had a positive impact by employing more than 8 million Americans in building projects ranging from bridges and airports to parks and schools.
She goes on to state that such programs eased the impacts of the great depression and while these programs helped, they didn't completely lead us out of the depression and the war did a lot of the work.
Not to mention FDR's policies aided workers rights as evidenced by this quote,
The subsequent National Labor Relations Act of 1935 allowed for collective bargaining and essentially led to the development of the labor movement in the United States, which protected workers’ rights and wages.
Essentially according to this source while FDR wasn't solely responsible for lifting us out of the Great Depression, to call his economic policies as hindering us from climbing out of it and " trash," is a gross exaggeration and isn't backed up by statistics nor studies at all.
Through Roosevelt's social programs such as social security and the New Deal, he established a social safety net and sub sequentially eased the tensions of the great depression.
I'll respond to the rest sometime later, my lunch break is ending.
-->
@bmdrocks21
The only thing that helped us out was the war, which put everyone to work.
No, it wasn't. That's a broken window fallacy.
What got us back on our feet was the rollback of FDR regulations, taxes, price controls, and rationing policies.
A common fallacy is that the Great Depression was ended by the explosive spending of World War II. But World War II actually institutionalized the sharp decline in the standard of living caused by the Depression. The Depression was actually ended, and prosperity restored, by the sharp reductions in spending, taxes, and regulation at the end of World War II, exactly contrary to the analysis of Keynesian so-called economists.
Employment in the military wasn't an efficient use of manpower for improving the standards of living.
WPA employment was slightly more helpful at improving standards of living, but it was only when private employers were allowed by the government to create efficient market jobs that the country was able to truly prosper.
-->
@Greyparrot
Not quite the broken window fallacy since none of our assets were destroyed. Other countries' assets were destroyed(war) which gave incentive for us to build weapons, which in turn caused employment.
I agree with most of the rest of what you said. War is a bad way to fix standard of living. I was more referring to factories creating tanks, guns, bullets, etc as what helped, not military employment.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
The Foundation for Economic Education thoroughly lays out how higher taxes, fixed prices, etc prolonged the Great Depression.
He made the AAA, which paid farmers to produce less, kill their cattle, etc to artificially inflate agricultural product prices. This obviously hurts consumers who were already struggling.
I feel that we will have to disagree on social safety net, but he made no article in SS that would adjust retirement age based on life expectancy. As a result, it will bankrupt us.
I had a whole debate trashing his economic policy. He allowed for the creation of business cartels, he changed the tax code multiple times while in office, which made the business environment unstable.
Economists Thomas E. Hall and J.David Ferguson found that his four tax code changes during his presidency drastically decreased private firms' investment.
So NOAA seems to be blowing up right now. Its own scientists are apparently in an uproar about its public statement defending Trump's claim that Alabama would be hit.
NOAA's chief scientist, Craig McLean, care of The Washington Post:
"The NWS Forecaster(s) corrected any public misunderstanding in an expert and timely way, as they should," McLean said. "There followed, last Friday, an unsigned press release from 'NOAA' that inappropriately and incorrectly contradicted the NWS forecaster. My understanding is that this intervention to contradict the forecaster was not based on science but on external factors including reputation and appearance, or simply put, political."
The head of the NOAA workers union said he'd never been so embarrassed of NOAA. The National Weather Service is still standing by its scientists and says they were right to contradict Trump.
Aaaand now The New York Times is reporting that Trump's man Wilbur Ross threatened to fire NOAA officials if they did not retract their contradiction of the president's claim.
Remember when the weather was just, you know, the weather?
Btw this shitstorm is now called Sharpie-gate. What a time to be alive.
-->
@bmdrocks21
The Foundation for Economic Education thoroughly lays out how higher taxes, fixed prices, etc prolonged the Great Depression.
The problem with the source you've cited after looking it over, it doesn't cite actual numbers for the most part and doesn't reference statistics at all.
Unlike mine which cite clear statistics outlining the amount of Americans employed through FDR's social programs for an example.
Not stating the study you've cited is wrong, however, I'd like clear and precise statistics done rather than generalized statements.
According to various graphs from this source, FDR's the New Deal greatly reduced the impacts of the great depression, here's a quick rundown.
- The unemployment rate through FDR's worker relief programs gradually reduced unemployment.
- The number of bank closings DRASTICALLY dropped
- Business failures gradually dropped
If you want a brief rundown on the relief programs FDR introduced to ease the impacts of the depression here is a clear concise rundown from socratic.org with actual numbers and names of the programs cited.
EBA - Emergency Banking Act - March 1933 - Gave welfare payments to people who had lost money in the Wall Street Crash and restored confidence in the banks. The government also publically urged people to reinvest their money.CCC - Civilian Conservation Corporation - March/April 1933 Employed young men to build things like national parks.AAA - Agricultural Adjustment Act - May 1933 - Set limits on how much farms could produce which helped to reduce expansion and raise prices for food. When there is more produce than there is buyers, it causes that product to become less valuable. By producing less, farmers could sell it for more which helped the farms and food production get back on track.TVA - Tennessee Valley Authority -May 1933 - Built dams to prevent flooding and provide cheap hydroelectric (energy from the movement of water rushing through a gap in a dam to drive a turbine) electricity.NIRA - National Industrial Recovery Act - June 1933 The government and businesses worked together to set standards for price, production and work conditions within industry.PWA -Public Works Administration - June 1933 - Hired people to build public amenities like schools and hospitals.The end of Prohibition - December 1933 - The 18th amendment had prohibited the sale and manufacturing of alcohol, however, this had led to an economic decline when many breweries, distilleries and saloons went out of business. FDR made removing this amendment (which became the 21st amendment) part of his manifesto.NLRA - National Labour Relations Act - July 1935 - Helped workers to form unions and protected the members from other laws. It also forced businesses to listen to the unions and their workers (e.g. by setting up boards to hear union complaints).WPA - Works Progress Administration - May 1935 - Very similar to the PWA, but came later and included cultural and artistic opportunities.SSA - Social Security Act - August 1935 - Set up financial support for pregnant women, the elderly, disabled and young. It meant that people had insurance and security for when they retired or if they couldn't work.FLSA - Fair Labour Standards Act - June 1938 - Cut the maximum hours someone could work for and raised minimum wage - thus protecting over 13 million people!
For your last source you've cited I was unable to find specifically where it was located at in the PDF and would like to ask for either a specific section or a direct quote. Although a specific section would be preferable.
-->
@Greyparrot
Fixed that for you since you misread the pie charts.
But again the fact you seem to be ignoring is that correlation doesn't equal causation.
Just because the majority of the media hates Trump doesn't equate to them being bias.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
I asked for Obama policies, but I will check these out when possible.
What is the danger in being led by a President pathologically incapable of admitting error? Is Trump psychologically capable of recognizing defeat in 2020 should the electorate hand him defeat? What data might he be willing to fabricate to convince himself that he was actually victorious?
-->
@Pinkfreud08
-->
@Greyparrot
People don't like Trump because of his policies as demonstrated by the data I've previously mentioned.
It seems you aren't responding to my rebuttals and are instead repeating your initial position so I'll repeat.
But again the fact you seem to be ignoring is that correlation doesn't equal causation.Just because the majority of the media hates Trump doesn't equate to them being bias.
-->
@bmdrocks21
I'll post it later, my class is ending.
-->
@Greyparrot
they attack him far more than his policies including but not limited to making jokes and fun about him, if that doesn't indicate contempt and bias against someone then nothing does.
The "media" I would expand to include the talk shows because it's pretty much all the same anymore anyway.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
People don't like Trump because of his policies as demonstrated by the data I've previously mentioned.
you mean like deportations, family separation, those things Obama did and more? Because I don't recall the venom they used against Obama when he was doing the exact same things but on a larger scale. Doesn't sound like it's truly a policy issue does it.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Where are your sources for this information? My guess is the reason the deportations were higher is due to the fact that Obama's presidency lasted 8 years while Trump has only served 3 so far.
Hardly fair comparison.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Hopefully we are making it known to congress to take border security more seriously, and to disincentivise illegal activity as a means of seeking asylum.
Maybe we should be reconsidering the effects of NAFTA as well, not that it should be abandoned.
-->
@Snoopy
At least we can agree that illegal immigration ought to be stopped.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
Yeah, you would think Congress would be able to agree as well, but it seems they keep trying to sneak stuff past one another in big mega bills.
-->
@Pinkfreud08
fine compare the first 3 years of each, point is that it was done long before Trump became president right? selective moral outrage at it's finest.
here I'll even give you a vox article lol
-->
@Pinkfreud08
-->
@Pinkfreud08
First, let me just mention that FDR became president in 1933. Did you know that 1937-1938 there was a recession? Until the onset of WWII, the private sector didn't recover. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_1937%E2%80%9338
I mean, your source points to artificial decreases in unemployment caused by job works programs. I don't believe I have to cite a source saying that this money must come from somewhere, yes? He continuously raised the corporate tax rate throughout the Depression https://www.thebalance.com/corporate-income-tax-definition-history-effective-rate-3306024 which means less disposable income with which to hire people. So, he essentially shifted money away from the private sector.
The social security tax also made it more expensive to hire people. The minimum wage made it more expensive to hire people. Not to mention that the minimum wage was a tool to crowd out black employees since they undercut white employees. That is probably why their unemployment rates tripled those of whites https://www.history.com/news/last-hired-first-fired-how-the-great-depression-affected-african-americans . They often had less education, which made their labor worth less.
Again, the AAA made food products more expensive. I don't see how destroying food is a good idea, especially when poor consumers are already struggling.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
So is this thread officially not about the hurricane fiasco anymore? Should I start a new thread if I want to talk about the Trump administration pressuring a federal science organization into misrepresenting reality so the president could save face?
the problem is, for many imo, there's isn't a better choice in 2020. IF (big if) the democrats didn't go full socialist-tard, pander ad-nauseam and actually cared about the general public rather than "special" groups they probably could have converted a bunch of voters. But that's not their game plan. It's control, control, control. None of them actually want to help the U.S. they just want to get elected.
Why'd you vote him in in the first place? If you voted for him, of course. You knew what you were getting. Were you one of those "because Hillary is the Antichrist" people?
There seems to be some irony here. I think Republicans don't actually care about the general public, and pander to a "special" group -- rich one-percenters who are all about control, control, control.
For anyone waiting on a response from me, I'm very busy with school so I'll respond in a few days.
-->
@Castin
it never was, it was about Trump as they all are.
As I have said many, many times, I didn't vote for him, but I'm certainly glad Hillary didn't win.
I think Republicans don't actually care about the general public
given such a blanket statement obviously there is no room to bother discussing anything related, closed minds are just like that.
-->
@TheDredPriateRoberts
Is this how you see Trump voters? Little children unable to make choices to better their lives?I think Republicans don't actually care about the general public..
When did you become such an aloof elitist?