The Shape of the Universe.

Debates: 22

Posts: 11,354

3

6

10.25.2019 03:19PM

3

6

10.25.2019 03:19PM

-->

@Paul

All well and good.

But better if you were to clarify this extra "spatial dimension" thing.

Nonetheless. I think that the universe is oscillatory and contained within the limits of it's own potential to expand and contract between three non-infinite points.

An oscillating sequence which therefore also has the potential to reinitiate from 0.

So "Big Bangs" could have occurred an almost infinite number of times.

The sequence of events that we regard as material evolution may or may not be crucial to the process. I digress.

Topic's author

#92

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.25.2019 03:24PM

1

2

10.25.2019 03:24PM

-->

@zedvictor4

Watch the video right above your post. It’s only seven minutes.

#93

Debates: 22

Posts: 11,354

3

6

10.25.2019 03:26PM

3

6

10.25.2019 03:26PM

-->

@Paul

Ok. I Will look later.

#94

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.25.2019 07:42PM

3

10.25.2019 07:42PM

-->

@Paul

We can have confidence in certain propositions due to their being independently testable and verifiable. The shape of the universe does not fall under this category.

Topic's author

#95

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=higher+dimensions

10.25.2019 08:50PM

1

2

10.25.2019 08:50PM

-->

@secularmerlin

It's not that we don't understand higher dimensions, we do:

The problem is that you can't picture more than three dimensions, the gravity well example illustrates that.

What Einstein did was use time as a dimension, space time has three spatial dimensions and one of time which is four dimensions.

Topic's author

#96

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.25.2019 10:04PM

1

2

10.25.2019 10:04PM

-->

@secularmerlin

We know that no matter where you go in the universe you will see everything moving away from you.

If you went to another galaxy you would see everything moving away from you just like you see on earth.

So the center of the universe is where ever you happen to be in it.

For this to be the case the entire universe must be higher dimensional.

#97

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.25.2019 10:09PM

3

10.25.2019 10:09PM

-->

@Paul

I do not see that this reveals the shape (3 or 4 dimensional) of said universe.

Topic's author

#98

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.25.2019 11:06PM

1

2

10.25.2019 11:06PM

-->

@secularmerlin

I don’t know what the shape of the universe is, that’s why I’m asking.

#99

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.25.2019 11:34PM

3

10.25.2019 11:34PM

-->

@Paul

No one knows. It is beyond pur epistemology.

#100

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,308

3

2

4

10.26.2019 02:01AM

3

2

4

10.26.2019 02:01AM

-->

@Paul

So the center of the universe is where ever you happen to be in it. For this to be the case the entire universe must be higher dimensional.

False, unless we consider ultra-micro to be a "higher dimension", and Ive already made clear that is exactly the only way cosmologists can relate to "higher dimensional" scenarios.

Fuller lays out this scenario fairly clearly in on long paragraph. Remember when it comes to long, Fuller wrote a whole book of some 300 plus pages and it was only one sentence.

Topic's author

#101

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 10:31AM

1

2

10.26.2019 10:31AM

-->

@ebuc

When I said center of the universe in the post you quoted what Ishould have said is the center of the VISIBLE universe which is notthe center of the universe in it’s entirety. The universe in it’sentirety has no center.

Topic's author

#102

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 12:41PM

1

2

10.26.2019 12:41PM

-->

@secularmerlin

So what you are saying is you have no opinion because you don’t understand the question?

#103

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 12:45PM

3

10.26.2019 12:45PM

-->

@Paul

I understand the question. It is just unanswerable. You are asking for a guess. I can guess but I have no more reason to think my guess is right than any other possibility.

Topic's author

#104

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 12:49PM

1

2

10.26.2019 12:49PM

-->

@secularmerlin

So you have no opinion.

#105

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 12:52PM

3

10.26.2019 12:52PM

-->

@Paul

Our opinions of the shape of the universe have nothing to do with the actual shape of the universe. My opinion is that our opinions are inconsequential to the question.

Is there something wrong with answer I don't know if it is the most honest answer?

Topic's author

#106

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 01:04PM

1

2

10.26.2019 01:04PM

-->

@secularmerlin

There is nothing wrong with saying you don’t know, but there are plenty of scientists that have well informed opinions to offer the difference is you don’t.

#107

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 01:08PM

3

10.26.2019 01:08PM

-->

@Paul

So ask them.

Topic's author

#108

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 01:19PM

1

2

10.26.2019 01:19PM

-->

@secularmerlin

Well, there are choices. You can propose a closed universe, a flat universe or a saddle universe all with four spacial dimensions with or without any number of holes.

#109

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 01:25PM

3

10.26.2019 01:25PM

-->

@Paul

Or i can admit the truth. That the greatest minds working on the subject have only educated guesses and that I am not one of those minds and am not really even able to make an educated guess. Perhaps one of these great minds will have an answer some day.

Topic's author

#110

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 01:31PM

1

2

10.26.2019 01:31PM

-->

@secularmerlin

You are very close to being able to make an educated guess, don’t give up now.

#111

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 01:40PM

3

10.26.2019 01:40PM

-->

@Paul

My intention is not to give up. It is to be intellectually honest. I am not a cosmologist. My best guesses will perforce be based on theirs. In truth I remain unconvinced that anyone will ever be able to answer this question with more than a hypothesis because I am uncertain how test such a hypothesis. Take pir galaxy as an example. We have reasonable confidence that it is a spiral galaxy but we can't exactly take pictures so we don't actually know what it looks like.

Topic's author

#112

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 01:44PM

1

2

10.26.2019 01:44PM

-->

@secularmerlin

You just don’t know where to go next, you're not as stumped as you think you are.

#113

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 01:53PM

3

10.26.2019 01:53PM

-->

@Paul

If you have more to offer than you already have please present your evidence.

Topic's author

#114

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 01:55PM

1

2

10.26.2019 01:55PM

-->

@secularmerlin

You might start by looking at the choices and asking yourself which of the three universes (closed, flat or saddle) is most likely. There is plenty of information available about that.

#115

Debates: 0

Posts: 7,093

3

10.26.2019 01:58PM

3

10.26.2019 01:58PM

-->

@Paul

The best minds working on the issue cannot answer the question satisfactorily. I'm unsure what you expect from me. The best evidence you have presented so far was very clear that the results were inconclusive for all proposed models.

Topic's author

#116

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

10.26.2019 02:02PM

1

2

10.26.2019 02:02PM

-->

@secularmerlin

Okay, you’ve convinced me that you don’t know.

#117

Debates: 0

Posts: 4,308

3

2

4

10.26.2019 04:21PM

3

2

4

10.26.2019 04:21PM

-->

@Paul

When I said center of the universe in the post you quoted what Ishould have said is the center of the VISIBLE universe which is notthe center of the universe in it’s entirety. The universe in it’sentirety has no center.

False as any finite occupied space has a center relative to its static or dynamically changing surface boundary.

Finite occupied space = having a volumetric value even if that volume increases or decreases ex a balloon filled with air or not and center based on average value of as many diametric values that can be ascertained/assessed.

Again, Fuller has a whole one or two paragrpahs that explain how we can have a Universe that appears to be expanding from any place in Universe. You do not really give a clear easy to visualize explanation as Fuller does and it involves consideration of ultra-micro ergo as I stated previously will be associated with what most cosmologist and physicists have stated in the past, hyper-dimension ---ergo ultr-micro-- curled within our observed 3D.

I recall a brief something or another where somebody thought they were seeing evidence of hyper-dimension closer to an observable scale. Been 12 to 20 years back I heard that info, to best of my recall.

Hyper-dimensions, at best just equal ultra-micro scales of existence withing 3D.

A cube or tetrahedron etc, inside another one, inside another one so on and so on is simple concepts of hyper-dimension that is explained simply vai M. Kakus book Hyper-space and I have repeated expressed here.

XYZ becomes abc of a cube and d is the volumetric ---not surface--- diagonal that terminates at corner of another cube. Old news. That book probably came out in late 90's or early 2000's. I could find Fullers pargraphs explaining the scenario we observed ---before we new of dark energy-- seeningly expanding perception from any viewpoint in Universe.

It will only fall on deaf ears since for most part, their exists and mental based ego blockage to most of what I present around here. Go figure, oh yeah, pretty much others dont figure with rational, logical common sense.

#118