Debating to undermine any/all "BELIEF"

#121

Mopac

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Mopac

11.13.2019 08:44PM

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@AGnosticAgnostic

leaves me begging:

1. Who is "we"?
2. What do we "teach"?
3. Why ought "such matter"?

1. The Orthodox Catholic Church

2. That "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

3. The Holy Spirit of Truth abides abides in The Apostolic Church, which has faithfully preserved the good news of our salvation and reconciliation to God for millennia. It is the definitive Christian Church.

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#122

AGnosticAgnostic

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AGnosticAgnostic

11.14.2019 05:28PM

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@Mopac

1. The Orthodox Catholic Church

2. That "without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

3. The Holy Spirit of Truth abides abides in The Apostolic Church, which has faithfully preserved the good news of our salvation and reconciliation to God for millennia. It is the definitive Christian Church.

1. Did I ever give you the:

ABC's of GOOD and EVIL?
A believes B is evil
B believes A is evil
A&B annihilate
C knows neither knew not from which tree they ate.

Notice how both A and B are dead-locked in belief-based conflict and C abstained?

Knowledge negates belief. Your "Orthodox" Catholic Church will never want you to know this.

2. The problem here is one of gravity: what weighs more (if anything) than the original warning given to Adam re: the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Would it not be true that, had it not been for this one "transgression", there would have been no problem? What is the nature of the transgression? If this transgression is "reversed" internally/locally, can this be used as a definite "method" to try to believe in a god?

It is not that belief is evil: it is just that it takes a believer to believe evil is good, thus when it comes to belief, one must be at least knowledgeable enough to know to sincerely try both: to, and not to, believe. If god is all-knowing, god would know the sincerity of all being.

Therefor: to whatever degree(s) one is true/sincere, the (fruits of the) same is accorded: it is possible to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil without death: it is the wise way of doing it.

Therefor: be ye wise as a serpent - trying to know to / not to believe leads only one direction: all-knowing.

However, knowledge/ignorance begins with self:

One can believe themselves to be something they are not...

or one can know not to believe to be something they are not...

Neither shame, nor fear, nor guilt are virtues unless tried/tested and their sources known: both within and without.

3. Are there many like you?

#123

Mopac

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Mopac

11.14.2019 05:58PM

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@AGnosticAgnostic

2. You cannot undo the effects of Adam and Eve's transgression. Only Christ can. It takes a believer to believe anything, so you pointing out that it takes a believer to believe evil is good is meaningless as far as I can see. The Orthodox Church teaches that there is such a thing as spiritual delusion. The Greek word is "plané" and the Russian word is "prelest". The Church has a great deal of experience grappling with this, and it is especially a focus in our monasteries. Our religion is Truth worship, so sincerity is a must when it comes to the faith. The therepeutic method of the church weeds out delusion, and exposing that which influences us unawares, helps to make the practitioner a more honest person.

3. Like me in what way? The Orthodox Catholic Church is the 2nd largest congregation of Christians in the world, and the original Apostolic church. The Church is present here in America, but Orthodox Christianity is not big here. In fact, we don't even really have a properly formed Church yet in America, and you will see that in America's peculiar situation in the many immigrant churches that are named after their country of origin. Eventually, all these churches will be united in a proper American Orthodox Church, but it is a process.

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#124

AGnosticAgnostic

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AGnosticAgnostic

11.14.2019 06:32PM

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11.14.2019 06:32PM

2. You cannot undo the effects of Adam and Eve's transgression.

Each is their own, thus carries their own.

Only Christ can.

Christ is not a man - the idol worship is ridiculous.

It takes a believer to believe anything, so you pointing out that it takes a believer to believe evil is good is meaningless as far as I can see.

There is an alternative 'state' to belief: to know (any/all) not to believe...

The Orthodox Church teaches that there is such a thing as spiritual delusion. The Greek word is "plané" and the Russian word is "prelest". The Church has a great deal of experience grappling with this, and it is especially a focus in our monasteries. Our religion is Truth worship, so sincerity is a must when it comes to the faith. The therepeutic method of the church weeds out delusion, and exposing that which influences us unawares, helps to make the practitioner a more honest person.

...I'll pass.

3. Like me in what way? The Orthodox Catholic Church is the 2nd largest congregation of Christians in the world, and the original Apostolic church. The Church is present here in America, but Orthodox Christianity is not big here. In fact, we don't even really have a properly formed Church yet in America, and you will see that in America's peculiar situation in the many immigrant churches that are named after their country of origin. Eventually, all these churches will be united in a proper American Orthodox Church, but it is a process.

Not if Islam has anything to say/do about it: and they do. They committing a global jihad trying to wipe Christianity off the face of the planet. They have been doing it for 1400 years: they hide behind the Lunatic Left (ie. same entity). Islam will use the Left to destroy Christianity according to their supremacist ideology.

#125

disgusted

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disgusted

11.14.2019 06:50PM

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11.14.2019 06:50PM

@ MOP

You cannot undo the effects of Adam and Eve's transgression.

It's a fairy tale invented by primitive ignorant superstitious savages.

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#126

AGnosticAgnostic

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AGnosticAgnostic

11.14.2019 07:06PM

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@disgusted

It's a fairy tale invented by primitive ignorant superstitious savages.

I know I am and will be alone in this, but I took a different approach to the Judaism/Christianity/Islam problem: I started with the Hebrew language itself, and learned that it is actually just one "form" viewed from 22 different perspectives, thus each passage of Genesis is just a shape moving around creating other shapes.

However, these shapes have symmetries: for example, Genesis 1:1 is a vesica piscis

wherein b'resh'yis b'ra elohim (In the beginning created GOD) is contained inside the overlap

and eth ha'shema'yim / v'eth ha'aretz

are the essence(s) of the heavens / the essence(s) of the earth respectively.

It is thus a form (ie. a folded circle infinity) which has a definite geometry that can be used to "try" anything that must necessarily obey that geometry in order to exist (ie. as above / so below).

But it is more or less true that Genesis is a fascinating book of a tautology of "equations" each being derived from the former, yet interpreted by

primitive ignorant superstitious savages

who have absolutely no clue what they are (even attempting to) read. The ignorance of the belief-based religions is unbelievable: I couldn't have believed it even if I wanted to, had I not known it to be so.

#127

Mopac

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Mopac

11.14.2019 11:18PM

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@AGnosticAgnostic

Christ is not a man - the idol worship is ridiculous.

Not man, theanthropos.

You don't understand our faith, and the worldview you are promulgating here seems to imply that you are unteachable. How can you come to know what I know if you aren't even willing to believe in order to come to knowledge?

So where can we even go from here?

You know better, right? If you know better, I certainly am not going to convince you of anything.

You certainly don't know Christ as I do, nor do you understand what I do know. So I ask you, who do you say Christ is?

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#128

AGnosticAgnostic

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AGnosticAgnostic

11.15.2019 11:16AM

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11.15.2019 11:16AM

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@Mopac

You don't understand our faith, and the worldview you are promulgating here seems to imply that you are unteachable.

Truth as authority, not authority as truth.

The truth speaks (ie. "teaches") for itself.

How can you come to know what I know if you aren't even willing to believe in order to come to knowledge?

I already know not to believe...

Knowledge negates belief.

So where can we even go from here?
You know better, right? If you know better, I certainly am not going to convince you of anything.

It's not about knowing better or worse, or this person or that person - focusing on people rather than ideas is much closer to true idol worship than statues/figures.

You certainly don't know Christ as I do, nor do you understand what I do know. So I ask you, who do you say Christ is?

It's an ignorant question:

Christ is not a person.

Believing Christ is a person is idol worship.

INRI

Ignis Natura Renovatur Integra

"(the) FIRE (of) NATURE RENEWS INTEGRALLY"

Christ is the renewing fire.

It is on the cross itself.

Fire in Hebrew is:

אש

"esh".

Aleph א: air.

Shin ש: head/heart/sex.

heavens above = psychological (ie. Father)

earth below = emotional (ie. Son)

waters below = instinctual (ie. Holy spirit)

If you place a shin (ש) in the middle of YHWH you get YHshWH (phon. Yahushowa),

and since each being is their own shin:

666 - sex/sex/sex is the "mark of the Beast" wherein these three brains contain nothing but lust for sex viz. lower organ controls the higher organ (ie. Eve gives fruit to Adam), which leads to sexual degeneracy / evil, such as pedophilia and rape. Islam's Muhammad is the idol worshiped for such degeneracy.

Thus each is their own Christ/anti-Christ with Jesus/Muhammad representing their archetypes: Satan requires belief, Allah/Muhammad requires belief. The House of Islam is thus the House of Swine wherein no-longer-human-beings devolve back into animal nature due to their sexual degeneracy / infidelity (ie. Muhammadans "believe" they are somehow not themselves infidel Jews despite being descendants from Ishmael, son of Abraham, who was a Jew, and Muhammad desecrating the established Edenic state of 1:1 man:woman).

Mark of Cain = 'the accuser is the accused'

Mark of Beast = sex, sex and sex

Islam is marked by both: Muslims pathologically believe evil is good because they are ignorant of the first warning issued to Adam.

This is more or less what the theorem I am working on establishes: truth of the way of the living viz. truth-by-way-of-negation which would collapse Judaism/Christianity/Islam.

#129

Mopac

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Mopac

11.15.2019 01:49PM

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