Jesus is Lord?

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.11.2018 07:37AM

3

2

09.11.2018 07:37AM

-->

@Mopac

Jesus is The Truth.

The Truth is king.

Jesus told a few lies and it depends on what and whose "truth" sounds more truthful. As Pontius Pilate said- "what is truth".

Guilty people get found not guilty & innocent people are found guilty because someone's "truth" was more convincing than someone else's "truth". You really need to grow up.

You live in the 21st century now, your not living in 1st century Judea and unless you understand what was going on in such places as Palestine and Galilee at the time of the Christ, you will never, EVER understand a damn thing about the New Testament and the life of the Christ and so called "messiah".

#32

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

3

6

09.11.2018 01:02PM

3

6

09.11.2018 01:02PM

-->

@Stephen

Jesus told a few lies.....

It is impossible for God to lie.

...and it depends on what and whose "truth" sounds more truthful.

Jesus' truth sounds most truthful to me.

As Pontius Pilate said- "what is truth".

And Jesus said, I am the Truth.

I think I'll stick with Jesus, thank you. He is more than all the truth I need.

#33

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.11.2018 02:12PM

3

4

7

09.11.2018 02:12PM

-->

@Stephen

Your argument is utter nonsense. You don't argue that a loony toon based loosely off a movie, book or myth is the same as the story it was based off of.

Which I dispute anyway, because I don't believe for a second you really understand what you are talking about. What did you watch some wingnut video or listen to some wannabe gnostics or something?

What mesopotamian stories and myths did the prophets come from?

You are making this up, or repeating something someone else made up.

#34

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.11.2018 03:16PM

3

2

09.11.2018 03:16PM

-->

@Mopac

What mesopotamian stories and myths did the prophets come from?

examples: The biblical creation story & flood story are re-telling of Mesopotamian epics, Babylonian in particular. They were picked up during the Babylonian captivity and wrote down, re told & passed off as Hebrew/Israelite history. They are not Biblical Hebrew, Israelite of even Jewish ORIGINALS, they are lifted straight from the Mesopotamian epics that were wrote THOUSANDS of years before the Bible was even thought of. You need to do a bit more reading otherwise you will remain the dunce you are now for the rest of your life.

You are making this up, or repeating something someone else made up.

I would like you to prove I have made anything up. Mind how you struggle.

If you actually care to get answers, I will help you to the best of my ability. As long as you are asking questions about the bible,

You have avoided my question you said you would answer concerning the bible.

Is the reason for baptism to cleans one of their sins?

#35

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.11.2018 03:19PM

3

4

7

09.11.2018 03:19PM

-->

@Stephen

The prophets? Isaiah? Jeremiah? Ezekiel?

I suppose you think all that was lifted?

I'm more familiar with what you are claiming than you know, and it isn't as relevent as you think it is.

#36

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.11.2018 03:30PM

3

2

09.11.2018 03:30PM

-->

@Mopac

it isn't as relevent as you think it is.

Ok so let's get back to the original question asked by Paul. - Is Jesus lord.

I say yes, but not a god. I have explained why I believe jesus wasn't a god. You on the other hand have failed to prove jesus was/ IS a god.

And there is this you seem to now want to avoid>.

If you actually care to get answers, I will help you to the best of my ability. As long as you are asking questions about the bible,

You have already failed twice now to answer one question put to you so what about this one>;

If God and Jesus are the same, having the same mind, knowledge and power, then why would Jesus beg himself in the garden of Gethsemane, to spare himself from having to be crucified? Furthermore, why would Jesus ask himself why he has forsaken himself by allowing himself to be crucified?

#37

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.11.2018 04:31PM

3

4

7

09.11.2018 04:31PM

-->

@Stephen

This is a complex theological question, so understand that getting what I say here might be hard to grasp if you are not well studied in scripture. I will do my best to simplify it and make it as easy to grasp as possible.

First of all, the Jesus that is part of the trinity is The Word of God. When you are talking about Jesus, you are talking about a meatsuit that walked around for 30 something years.

When the Jews asked the prophet and judge Samuel to appoint them a King, God said through him that God was their king who freed them from slavery, tyranny, and having a human king. The people wanted a human king anyway out of rebellion to God.

The point of Jesus was to fulfill all of the messianic prophecies after this abominable error that the Jews commited through their rebellion to God by returning things to the place where God is their king, not man.

So Christianity is the complete opposite of worshipping a man as God, it is getting rid of that idea of worshipping a man as God and recognizing the king as being God.

Does that make sense?

Psalm 22 is what Jesus is singing on the cross, and if you would actually read it, you'd find eery similarity between that psalm written 500 or so years prior and the situation that meatsuit Jesus was in.

#38

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.11.2018 05:01PM

3

2

09.11.2018 05:01PM

-->

@Mopac

The point of Jesus was to fulfill all of the messianic prophecies

And he failed as a messiah in my opinion because he was just an educated royal priest/ king. i.e. a man of royal birth who was born into the line of David and the high priesthood on his mother's side. You need to study what is meant by messiah and what it meant to be a messiah and what was expected of a messiah.

And you have still failed to answer two questions now after saying you will answer biblical related questions. why is that?

here they are again. You will notice I add a question every time you fail to answer>>

(1) post 30

Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?

(2) post 36

If God and Jesus are the same, having the same mind, knowledge and power, then why would Jesus beg himself in the garden of Gethsemane, to spare himself from having to be crucified? Furthermore, why would Jesus ask himself why he has forsaken himself by allowing himself to be crucified?

(3) post 38

John the Baptist died twice, how did that happen?

#39

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.11.2018 05:53PM

3

4

7

09.11.2018 05:53PM

-->

@Stephen

You aren't really interested in hearing the answers I give you, so why should I answer any more of your questions? You will simply insult me and ignore what I am saying anyway, right?

I answered both of your questions already. If you want to reformulate your questions after processing my answers, we might get somewhere.

Topic's author

#40

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

09.11.2018 07:01PM

1

2

09.11.2018 07:01PM

-->

@Mopac

I love the truth apparently even more than you do and I don't love God. In fact, I don't even think about God, I have no interest in God at all.

Topic's author

#41

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

09.11.2018 07:03PM

1

2

09.11.2018 07:03PM

-->

@Stephen

How about Jesus is Master does that mean the same thing as Jesus is Lord?

#42

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.11.2018 08:03PM

3

4

7

09.11.2018 08:03PM

-->

@Paul

The Truth is God, so maybe you believe in God without even knowing it.

Topic's author

#43

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

09.11.2018 10:28PM

1

2

09.11.2018 10:28PM

-->

@Stephen

Okay Stephen how about this, tell me one word that could be used in place of the word Lord in the phrase Jesus is Lord that would mean the same thing. Can you do that?

Topic's author

#44

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

09.11.2018 10:40PM

1

2

09.11.2018 10:40PM

-->

@Mopac

A made up story is called fiction, not truth.

#45

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.12.2018 02:37AM

3

4

7

09.12.2018 02:37AM

-->

@Paul

What does that have to do with The Truth being God?

#46

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 06:48AM

3

2

09.12.2018 06:48AM

-->

@Mopac

I answered both of your questions already.

Now that is just a blatant lie isn't it. You haven't addressed a single one of these questions below, why is that? Are they too difficult for you, yes you,someone who proclaims to know about the New Testament but insists I haven't even read it.

Here they are again. You will notice I add a question every time you fail to answer>>

(1) post 30

Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?

(2) post 36

If God and Jesus are the same, having the same mind, knowledge and power, then why would Jesus beg himself in the garden of Gethsemane, to spare himself from having to be crucified? Furthermore, why would Jesus ask himself why he has forsaken himself by allowing himself to be crucified?

(3) post 38

John the Baptist died twice, how did that happen?

(4) post 46

Why didn't Jesus resurrect his cousin John the Baptist as he is said to have done so with his friend Lazarus?

You aren't really interested in hearing the answers I give you

I am , I just don't agree with what you are saying. I have said jesus failed at his mission as messiah, that wasn't a question, it was a statement of fact. If you don't agree then you should say why. That is debate, that is discussion.

You have quite clearly stated that you will try to answer bible related questions to the best of your ability, so why haven't you even tried to answer my questions.

#47

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 07:24AM

3

2

09.12.2018 07:24AM

How about Jesus is Master does that mean the same thing as Jesus is Lord?

It maywell have done in its time. In the New Testament Jesus is referred to asmaster and teacher and lord but never god. This is what masters, leaders, teachers and lords do, they ' lord it' over those who are less educated and orexperienced in certain matters, simply because they did really 'know better' and could lie to and manipulate those below them.

You have to realise Palestine at the time. The educated were those usually ofthe priesthood and or royalty and or close friends and relatives of both former and latter. They had been educated by the best teachers/masters of the time in places such as Greece and Egypt. The rest of thepopulace were simple uneducated illiterate peasants who worked the land madepots or weaved baskets. This is why those in power could convincingly trick andlie to those of lower status i.e. backward peasants. Jesus/Luke mentions these typesin the NT, here >>;

Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk inlong robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in thesynagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts.
What is a scribe? It is someone educated enough to be able to write AND read.

Think of the person convincing a muslim goatherd from the foothills of Afghanistan trying onhis new made to fit suicide suit with the promise of the ten billion virginswho will greet him in paradise. Then ask who would be able to convince someoneto blow themselves up on that silly promise in the 21st century? It would onlybe someone who was a lot more savvy and knowledgeable, wouldn't it .

Now ask yourself, why is it that not a single one of these poor lower illiterate dunces has ever said to the designer and tailor of such a suit - you first-?

#48

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 07:53AM

3

2

09.12.2018 07:53AM

-->

@Paul

Okay Stephen how about this, tell me one word that could be used in place of the word Lord in the phrase Jesus is Lord that would mean the same thing. Can you do that?

I thought I had already. Jesus was directly called a master, and teacher. So you could replace the word lord with either of those titles.

P.S. Do not confuse what Jesus is referred to as, with what Jesus was actually addressed as in the NT .

One has to understand that it was only some of the higher educated and only Jesus's close educated inner circle who knew who he really was. The rest of the population of Jerusalem in particular didn't have clue who is was.

Matthew even wrote>:

And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was stirred, saying, Who is this?

Those of Jesus' lower ranks (the lepers) had to resort to waving palm branches and banging drums and tambourines and shouting out his "name" to attract attention to him. If he had just entered on his mule no one would have taken a blind bit of notice of this saviour messiah teacher master shepherd, would they? This street show could be compared to day with someone waving placards with the face of Nigel Farage shouting vote UKIP.

#49

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

3

6

09.12.2018 08:27AM

3

6

09.12.2018 08:27AM

Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?

No. It is symbolism of being buried with Jesus and sharing with His death on the cross, thus being resurrected with Him as He rose from death.

If God and Jesus are the same,....

The same what? You are confused. The Father is God. Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit is God. But Jesus is not the Father, though both of them are God. Your question then is illogical.

John the Baptist died twice, how did that happen?

John the Baptist did not die twice.

Why didn't Jesus resurrect his cousin John the Baptist as he is said to have done so with his friend Lazarus?

The bible doesn't say.

And he failed as a messiah in my opinion....

So what? You disagree with Bible authors and God's prophets. Thanks for telling us your opinion, but how does it matter to the truth?

I am claiming the OT was lifted from the Mesopotamian Epics...

Anyone can claim anything. My experience shows that people making this claim see similarity in some stories and then simply assume the later story is lifted from the earlier. Similarity and chronology are not enough to assume they were lifted.

Your claim is not true just because you believe it. And we will not accept it as true just because you assert it without support.

Jesus is called God in both the OT and NT, using the actual word God. Jesus is called God to His face. One may refuse to believe that Jesus is God, but one cannot deny that the Bible calls Jesus God.

So the question becomes, "Is the bible correct?"

#50

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

3

6

09.12.2018 08:33AM

3

6

09.12.2018 08:33AM

-->

@Paul

Jesus is referred to as the Lord of Lords. As in, the Lord to whom other Lords bow.

The phrase means, whatever name you wish to call Jesus, He is above all principalities and powers, and subject to none.

#51

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 12:43PM

3

2

09.12.2018 12:43PM

-->

@ethang5

John the Baptist did not die twice.

Then what a complete jumbled up unreliable mess the scriptures are.

let's read them here>>

It begins with Herod hearing the stories of the wonder workings of Jesus, such as:

“And they went out, and preached that men should repent. And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them”.Mark 6:12-13. KJV

Herod’s response is;

“This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him”.Mathew14:2. KJV.

Here then Herod is recognising the now dead John as a doer of “mighty work’s” and harbouring great respect for John but we read nothing in the gospels at all about any miracles i.e. "mighty works" performed by John so what “mighty works” had John done to now be showing themselves in Jesus?

And from Mark;

But when Herod heard thereof, [Jesus] he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead. Mark 6:16.KJV.

John the Baptist here then according to both these accounts is dead. We are not told before this point in the bible anywhere that John is dead or how he died but by these accounts we assume he has been beheaded and Herod is frightened, he believes Jesus is John come back to haunt him.

The story goes on to say;

And when a convenient day was come, that Herod on his birthday made a supper to his lords, high captains, and chief estates of Galilee;

And when the daughter[Salome, not even named in the NT ] of the said Herodias came in, and danced, and pleased Herod and them that sat with him, the king said unto the damsel, Ask of me whatsoever thou wilt, and I will give it thee. And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give it thee, unto the half of my kingdom.

And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist. Remember John is said to be already dead!

And she came in straightway with haste unto the king, and asked, saying, I will that thou give me by and by in a charger the head of John the Baptist.

Herod appears stunned and “sorry” at the request but, up until this point is John the Baptist dead or not? We can then go on to read;

And the king was exceeding sorry; yet for his oath's sake, and for their sakes which sat with him, he would not reject her.

And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,

And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother.

And when his [John’s] disciples heard of it, they came and took up his corpse, and laid it in a tomb” Mark 6:12-29.

#52

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 01:01PM

3

2

09.12.2018 01:01PM

-->

@ethang5

Jesus is referred to as the Lord of Lords. As in, the Lord to whom other Lords bow.

I don't doubt he is "referred" to as lord of lords by many christians, but who is it in the New Testament that actually addresses Jesus directly as "lord of lords".

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 19:16 Revelation.

Again , I notice, if this a reference to Jesus, it doesn't even mention that he is also a god or a god of gods.

#53

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.12.2018 01:40PM

3

4

7

09.12.2018 01:40PM

-->

@Stephen

Your John the baptist argument is the.best proof that you don't actually understand what you are talking about.

You must be getting arguments from someone else, because these are not the arguments of someone who actually reads and understands what they are debating.

And you probably have 1000 other stupid questions too, because you aren't really here to learn but cause mischief.

Topic's author

#54

Debates: 0

Posts: 470

1

2

09.12.2018 02:38PM

1

2

09.12.2018 02:38PM

-->

@Mopac

Well for one thing it can't be verified objectively.

You may as well say Bigfoot is Truth.

#55

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.12.2018 02:51PM

3

4

7

09.12.2018 02:51PM

-->

@Paul

The dictionary doesn't define bigfoot as literally being the ultimate reality.

For such a mister smarty pants, you sure are arbitrary. Arbitrary and superstitious.

#56

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2

09.12.2018 03:24PM

3

2

09.12.2018 03:24PM

-->

@Mopac

Your John the baptist argument is the.best proof that you don't actually understand what you are talking about.

No, what it means is that you cannot explain away why it is that John The Baptist's seems to have died twice according the jumbled mess of the scriptures.

Herod believes John is dead initially and he believes Jesus is John incarnate and has " come back to haunt him". It is there to be read and is undeniable. That fact is also attested to by TWO of the Gospel tellers, Mark and Matthew. Then we proceed to Herod's birthday party where Herod sends out the executioner to behead John on the whim of the dancing bint Salome.

You are struggling to explain away this BS so instead tell me I don't read the Bible and or I don't understand it and eventually fall back on the old favourite of someone who is stumped in his own field of expertise and accuse me of " causing trouble".

Here they are again. You will notice I add a question every time you fail to answer>>

(1) post 30

Is baptism a ritual of cleansing of one's sins?

(2) post 36

If God and Jesus are the same, having the same mind, knowledge and power, then why would Jesus beg himself in the garden of Gethsemane, to spare himself from having to be crucified? Furthermore, why would Jesus ask himself why he has forsaken himself by allowing himself to be crucified?

(3) post 38

John the Baptist died twice, how did that happen?

(4) post 46

Why didn't Jesus resurrect his cousin John the Baptist as he is said to have done so with his friend Lazarus?

(5) post 55

Why didn't Jesus cure leprosy instead of just the ten lepers in Luke's gospel ?

#57

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

3

4

7

09.12.2018 03:50PM

3

4

7

09.12.2018 03:50PM

-->

@Stephen

Yet for every question you have, there will be another, and we will be here till you get tired of it because you aren't here. to learn, you are here to cause trouble.

So you can march around triumphantly that no one can answer your questions.

Not that I can't, I won't because you aren't being honest.

#58

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

3

6

09.12.2018 04:41PM

3

6

09.12.2018 04:41PM

-->

@Stephen

You are confused. The different gospel books are writing about the same story, not citing a new story.

What do you think when a movie does a flashback? Do you become confused that the character is young again? I refuse to believe you can be that dumb. You must be one of those willows-like atheists who think being obtuse is good argumentation.

...but we read nothing in the gospels at all about any miracles i.e. "mighty works" performed by John

So what? The bible did not record everything. Could you be so clueless as to think, "if it isn't recorded, it didn't happen?

We are not told before this point in the bible anywhere that John is dead or how he died

Of course we are. In another gospel. How old are you? The gospels tell the same story but from the POV of each writer. You are hilariously confused.

Funnier still, you think all your betters missed this little tidbit till you came along in your intelligence and spotted it. Hilarious.

#59

Debates: 1

Posts: 5,875

3

6

09.12.2018 04:52PM

3

6

09.12.2018 04:52PM

-->

@Stephen

I don't doubt he is "referred" to as lord of lords by many christians, but who is it in the New Testament that actually addresses Jesus directly as "lord of lords".

Well, that is a different question than the one you first asked. No one is recorded as calling Jesus Lord of Lords to His face. But Jesus is called God to His face. I suspect Jesus waited for His mission to be completed and all things placed under Him to assume the title, Lord of Lords.

Again , I notice, if this a reference to Jesus, it doesn't even mention that he is also a god or a god of gods.

Then I don't know what you're asking because it seems to change. Are you asking if Jesus is God? The answer is yes. Bible authors call Him God. The Holy Spirit calls Him God, He is called God to His face, and He takes on the singular traits of God.

If you only want to know if Jesus is called Lord of Lords to His face while He was physically here on Earth, then the bible does not record that event. If you are trying to find something else, I don't know what it could be.

Jesus is God, as such He is superior to everything and everyone, whether the bible specifically says so or not.

#60

Debates: 0

Posts: 8,321

3

2