Israeli Settlements Legal

Author: ethang5 ,

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  • ethang5
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    U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced Monday the U.S. is changing its position on Israeli settlements in the West Bank, dismissing the State Department's 1978 legal opinion that civilian settlements in the occupied Palestinian territories are "inconsistent with international law." 

    The announcement is the latest in the Trump administration's moves that weaken Palestinian claims to statehood.
  • ethang5
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    Pompeo said that Washington is not expressing a view on the legality of Israeli settlements or the status of the West Bank, saying that the matter should be left up to Palestinians and Israelis to negotiate. 

    The shift will not prejudge what the status of the West Bank will end up being under any potential peace agreement, he said.
  • ethang5
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    Israeli Prime Minister's Office:

    Today, the United States adopted an important policy that rights a historical wrong when the Trump administration clearly rejected the false claim that Israeli settlements in Judea and Samaria are inherently illegal under international law.

    Notice he used the names of the areas, instead of the liberal ploy of calling Israels own country, "occupied territory".

    What a great President Trump is!
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ethang5
    lol. So a guy breaks into your house and says that three of the rooms now belong to him. The police arrive and say, well we don't want to prejudge, ownership of those three rooms should be left up to the home owner and the guy who broke in. 

    That is the argument that the trump administration is making. That the group who is illegally stealing land shouldn't be called out for doing so. Basically what they are doing is refusing to call reality what it is to strengthen the hand of Israel when they decide they are never giving the Palestinians their land back. 

    What a terrible president Trump is. 
  • ethang5
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    lol. So a guy breaks into your house and says that three of the rooms now belong to him. 
    Your analogy is a little backwards there slick.

    The police arrive and say, well we don't want to prejudge, ownership of those three rooms should be left up to the home owner and the guy who broke in.
    Who's the police? The US? The US said that the homeowner was correct to take ownership of the 3 rooms.

    That is the argument that the trump administration is making. 
    Untrue. That is the argument you're making.

    That the group who is illegally stealing land shouldn't be called out for doing so
    So the homeowner is stealing his own house? Liberals are amazingly immune to reality.

    Basically what they are doing is refusing to call reality what it is to strengthen the hand of Israel when they decide they are never giving the Palestinians their land back. 
    There is a country called Israel. It has existed for more than 6,000 years.

    Has there ever been a country called Palestine?

    We have 10,000 years of Israeli history. Old coins and artifacts. Old buildings and monuments. History of ancient kings and customs.

    But for the liberal, all that is imaginary. The land is owned by a nomad group from Jordan that has never had a country.

    If the Palestinians lay down their weapons, peace would break out in the middle east.

    If Israel laid down their weapons, a slaughter would break out in the middle east.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ethang5
    Who's the police? The US? The US said that the homeowner was correct to take ownership of the 3 rooms.
    The police in this case would the world community, including the US. The US is now saying they don't have any opinion on the fact that Isreal has, and is continuing to, steal land that doesn't belong to them. 

    Untrue. That is the argument you're making.
    The israeli's are occupying land that doesn't belong to them. The US, contrary to most of the world, is saying that they no longer think this is illegal. IE they are denying reality. This is exactly the argument they are making. You just don't like it when I frame it in different terms. 

    So the homeowner is stealing his own house? Liberals are amazingly immune to reality.
    The israeli's aren't the homeowners. They are the guy breaking in. The Palestinians own the land. The Israeli's are illegally building settlements on it. 

    There is a country called Israel. It has existed for more than 6,000 years.
    That's funny. Because it hadn't existed for thousands of years until Europeans decided it did.

    Has there ever been a country called Palestine?
    Palestine has been the name of the region for thousands of years. The people who live there are therefore Palestinians. 

    We have 10,000 years of Israeli history. Old coins and artifacts. Old buildings and monuments. History of ancient kings and customs.
    So? For most of that history the majority of the Jewish people didn't live in modern day Israel. Most of the jews left and were gone for centuries. That doesn't give them the right to come back and displace the people who have lived there for centuries.

    But for the liberal, all that is imaginary. The land is owned by a nomad group from Jordan that has never had a country.
    No, I understand the history. But the land should belong to the people who have lived there for centuries, IE the Palestinians, not people who until a few decades ago lived in other countries. 

    If the Palestinians lay down their weapons, peace would break out in the middle east.
    If the Palestinians laid down their weapons they will never get any of their land back. You are essentially asking the victims of a crime to stop seeking justice so that other people can benefit. It is stupid on the face of it. There will never be peace until Israel stops blocking the peace process. They will never stop blocking the peace process until they give back the occupied land. 

    If Israel laid down their weapons, a slaughter would break out in the middle east.
    No one is asking Israel to lay down their weapons. They have the right to defend themselves. They do not have the right to occupy land that doesn't belong to them. 

    What Trump should do is pressure Israel to actually negotiate in good faith. Threaten to pull all financial and military assistance if they don't actually offer something the Palestinians. As it stands Israel will never agree to anything because they don't have to. They already have everything they want. They get all the land. They get to suppress the Palestinians without having to compensate them or give them any rights. To the leaders of Israel, continuing this conflict forever is exactly what they want. Trump is playing right into their hands and ensuring peace continues to be impossible. 
  • ethang5
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    You just don't like it when I frame it in different terms. 
    I don't like it when you frame it in a lie.

    The israeli's are occupying land that doesn't belong to them.
    Total nonsense. The country is Israel, it belongs to Israelis. Always has. Always will.

    The israeli's aren't the homeowners. They are the guy breaking in.
    Yet the home bears their name? When did they lose it?

    That's funny. Because it hadn't existed for thousands of years until Europeans decided it did.
    Is Israel a European word? Where was Europe 6,000 years ago when Abraham roamed the Golan heights?

    Has there ever been a country called Palestine?

    Palestine has been the name of the region for thousands of years.
    I'll take that as a no. The name of the region is Israel. And has been so since man began to record history.

    The people who live there are therefore Palestinians. 
    Then why isn't the land called Palestine? No one has denied the people are called Palestinians. The land though is Israel, and belongs to Israel.

    We have 10,000 years of Israeli history. Old coins and artifacts. Old buildings and monuments. History of ancient kings and customs.

    So? 
    Lol. I'll let that simmer a bit.

    For most of that history the majority of the Jewish people didn't live in modern day Israel.
    Untrue. Israel is mentioned at least 8 thousand years ago. Palestinians have lived there only about 2 of those 8 thousand years. And Israel didn't lose their land because some of them were away.

    Most of the jews left and were gone for centuries. That doesn't give them the right to come back and displace the people who have lived there for centuries.
    But Palestinians have the right to displace the people who had lived there for even longer?

    Jews have always lived in Israel. There was never a time when there were not Jews there. Nothing gives the Palestinians a right to the land of Israel.

    But the land should belong to the people who have lived there for centuries, IE the Palestinians, not people who until a few decades ago lived in other countries. 
    It is the Jews who have lived there for centuries. Why should ownership change just because a group has lived in a country for a long time?

    If the Palestinians laid down their weapons they will never get any of their land back. You are essentially asking the victims of a crime to stop seeking justice so that other people can benefit. It is stupid on the face of it.
    Israel is the only democracy in the region. It is peaceful and runs on the rule of law. There are Palestinians with Israeli citizenship and they can vote and move around freely. Stop being disingenuous.

    The Palestinians are violent and corrupt, they enslave their own people and buy bombs rather than baby food. No HB, it is true on the face of it.

    There will never be peace until Israel stops blocking the peace process. They will never stop blocking the peace process until they give back the occupied land. 
    The land is Israel and is occupied by its rightful owners, Israelis.

    No one is asking Israel to lay down their weapons. They have the right to defend themselves. They do not have the right to occupy land that doesn't belong to them. 
    And when they do that, I will join you in condemnation, but they certainly have every right to occupy their own land.

    Peace is not possible because of Islam. No Arab country is free or fair. Until Palestinians give up the doctrine of Islam, there will never be peace.

    They could not be peaceful in their own countries, but have spread death all over the world. Even if Israel gave them everything the want, they would simply want more, and continue killing and exporting murder.

    Trump is doing the right thing. The Palestinians need to know that terrorism will NEVER get them what they want, and Israel will NEVER be theirs. The sooner they learn this, the better it will be for them.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Maybe if The Palestines didn't try to wipe out Israel during this.


    Maybe if The Palestines won that war.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Funfact: The only people Arabs hate as much as Jews are the Palestinians. Not a single Arab nation welcomed that backward culture into their borders, and are still considered persona non grata.

    America's fascination with supporting them highlights the historical international ignorance and moral vapidness of America. 

    Perfectly summed up with the book "The Ugly American"

    A great read for the indoctrinated socialists in State-controlled education centers in America.
  • Greyparrot
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    In one vignette, a Burmese journalist says, "For some reason, the American people I meet in my country are not the same as the ones I knew in the United States. A mysterious change seems to come over Americans when they go to a foreign land. They isolate themselves socially. They live pretentiously. They are loud and ostentatious."
  • disgusted
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    Israeli Settlements Legal?

    No they're not.

  • disgusted
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    --> @ethang5
    We have 10,000 years of Israeli history. Old coins and artifacts. Old buildings and monuments. History of ancient kings and customs.
    I really want to see evidence of this blatant lie, got any?

  • ethang5
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    --> @Greyparrot
    You are a fountain of informative, pertinent, information. Thanks.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Maybe if The Palestines didn't try to wipe out Israel during this.
    I have never said the palestinians were blameless. they are not. But that doesn't excuse Israel stealing their land and locking them all in an open air prison. 

    Funfact: The only people Arabs hate as much as Jews are the Palestinians. Not a single Arab nation welcomed that backward culture into their borders, and are still considered persona non grata.
    This makes no sense. Palestinians are arabs. That's like saying the only people white's hate more than (insert other race) is whites. It's just silly. The other arab countries just didn't want to take in millions of refugees. It had nothing to do with culture. 

    America's fascination with supporting them highlights the historical international ignorance and moral vapidness of America. 
    America has literally never supported them. They back Israel every time no matter how many crimes Israel commits. American citizens support them because they can see all the terrible shit Israel does. 


  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @ethang5
    Total nonsense. The country is Israel, it belongs to Israelis. Always has. Always will.
    Ok so if a native person shows up on your doorstep and says that your house is theirs now you would be totally ok with that? I mean they haven't owned the land for centuries, but now they have a gun and they want it. 

    Yet the home bears their name? When did they lose it?
    They lost it hundreds of years ago when they left. The palestinians then lived there for centuries. The jews then came back and tried to force out the people living there. And the land doesn't bear their name. You just only know the jewish name.

    Untrue. Israel is mentioned at least 8 thousand years ago. Palestinians have lived there only about 2 of those 8 thousand years. And Israel didn't lose their land because some of them were away.
    They were gone for hundreds if not thousands of years. The jewish population in palestine was almost nothing until the 20th century when european jews started moving there and displacing the people who lived there. 

    Jews have always lived in Israel. There was never a time when there were not Jews there. Nothing gives the Palestinians a right to the land of Israel.
    The population of jews was almost nothing for hundreds of years. By that logic japan shouldn't exist (the japanese only took it in the last few hundred years), the US shouldn't exist, Canada shouldn't exist, the list goes on and on. But you only want to apply that logic when it is muslims being displaced. 

    Israel is the only democracy in the region. It is peaceful and runs on the rule of law.
    For israeli's sure. For palestinians, no. They regularly steal their land, blockade them so they can't get supplies, bomb them etc. 

    The Palestinians are violent and corrupt, they enslave their own people and buy bombs rather than baby food.
    And here is the core of your problem. You are calling an entire group of people evil. That is just blatant racism. You aren't basing your arguments on logic, just on hate and discrimination. 

    The land is Israel and is occupied by its rightful owners, Israelis.
    Virtually the entire world, including the US government until this week, disagrees. But based on your phrasing i'm guessing you don't know the difference between the country of israel and the illegal settlements on palestinian land. 

    Peace is not possible because of Islam. No Arab country is free or fair. Until Palestinians give up the doctrine of Islam, there will never be peace.
    Holy shit this is nuts. You are saying that you want to engage in perpetual warfare until 1/4 of the worlds population submits to your will. That is insane genocidal shit. Given how blatantly racist and nuts you are, I don't think I will be engaging any further in this conversation with you. You appear to be incapable of seeing past your intense bias. 
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    You don't know enough about Palestinians to understand why their Arabian neighbors hate them so much. I know in the USA we make fun of people with Trump Derangement Syndrome where a person will neglect his/her personal well being because they cannot cope with reality.

    Palestinians have been living under Israeli Derangement Syndrome for decades, where they will stab every Arab nation in the back and sabotage every peace/land deal to satisfy their hatred of Israel and the Delusion that they will eliminate the Israeli nation.


     Sadly, the Palestinians are known for betraying their Arab brothers, even effectively stabbing them in the back. The Palestinians, for example, supported Saddam Hussein's 1990 invasion of Kuwait – a Gulf state that, together with its neighbors, used to give the Palestinians tens of millions of dollars in aid each year.

    Some Arab writers and journalists expressed outrage over the Palestinians' opposition to peace plans, particularly the US administration's yet-to-be-announced "Deal of the Century."

    They accused the Palestinians of losing countless opportunities and said that the "Deal of the Century" could be the Palestinians' "last, best chance to achieve a state."

    Khalid Ashaerah, a Saudi, denounced the Palestinians as "traitors" and expressed hope that Israel would be "victorious" over the Palestinians.
    The Arab attacks on the Palestinians reflect an intense and increasing disillusionment in the Arab world with the Palestinians and anything related to them.

    At the core of this deep sense of disillusionment is the Arabs' belief that despite all they did to help their Palestinian brothers for the past seven decades, the Palestinians have proven to be constantly ungrateful toward the Arab and Muslim people and states.

    Such a widespread view as that now being expressed in various Arab states accuses the Palestinians of betraying their Arab and Muslim brothers. As an Arab saying goes, it accuses them of spitting in the well they have been drinking from. The image refers to the financial aid that Palestinians have received for decades from many Arab states.

    The Egyptians focused their criticism against the Palestinian terror group Hamas, which controls the Gaza Strip -- a coastal enclave that has a shared border with Egypt. The Egyptian critics, who are mostly affiliated with the regime of Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, see Hamas -- an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood organization now outlawed in Egypt -- as a threat to Egypt's national security and stability.

    These critics also seem incensed at Palestinian criticism of Sisi for having alleged good relations with Israel and the US administration.
    The Palestinians seem to believe that Sisi is conspiring against them, together with Israel and the US administration. They point out, for example, that last May, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called Sisi "my friend." Netanyahu had thanked Sisi after Egypt sent two helicopters to help extinguish wildfires in Israel. "I would like to thank my friend the Egyptian president, Sisi, for sending the two helicopters," Netanyahu announced.
    "Instead of defending their cause, the Palestinians are insulting Sisi and the Egyptian people," a prominent Egyptian journalist, Azmi Mujahed, said.

    The message the Egyptians are sending to the Palestinians is: We are fed up with you and your failure to get your act together and behave like adults. We are also fed up with you because, after all these years of supporting you and fighting for your cause, in the end, you are spitting in our face and offending our president.

    The Saudis have strict rules banning political activities during the hajj. Al-Shaikh apparently viewed the Palestinians as using the pilgrimage to Mecca to stage a demonstration, stir up trouble during the hajj and embarrass the Saudi authorities.
    "The dogs of Hamas," al-Shaikh said after viewing the video, "should be banned from performing the hajj next year because of their obscene behavior."

    Fahd al-Shammari, a Saudi journalist, attacked Palestinians by calling them "beggars without honor." He went as far as saying that a mosque in Uganda is more blessed than Al-Aqsa Mosque, which is a Jewish holy site."

    Many people in the Arab countries are now saying that it is high time for the Palestinians to start looking after their own interests and thinking of a better future for their children. They no longer see the Palestinian issue as the main problem in the Arab-Israeli conflict. The Arabs seem to be saying to the Palestinians: "We want to march forward; you can continue to march backward for as long as you wish."

    What they see is Palestinian stagnation, mainly thanks to the Palestinian Authority and Hamas leaders, who are too busy poisoning their peoples' minds and ripping each other to shreds to have time for anything positive. The Palestinians may just wake up one day to discover that their Arab brothers can truly no longer be duped.

  • HistoryBuff
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    You don't know enough about Palestinians to understand why their Arabian neighbors hate them so much.
    I read your article. Basically what it boils down to is that the palestinians are desperate. The israelis are actively crushing them. They therefore leap at any opportunity they see that might help them alleviate this. This causes them to not have long term strategic alliances. To the Saudi's or Kuwaiti's who plan their foreign policy years or decades in advance, this it betrayal. 

    The bottom line is that the other arab states have tried and failed to help the Palestinians so they no longer really care. The Palestinians therefore keep having to jump between allies to try to get help as one ally after another loses interest in helping them.

    But this doesn't mean the Palestinians are evil. It means that Israel has been very successful in committing crimes and getting away with it and forcing an entire group of people to become increasingly desperate generation after generation. 
  • Greyparrot
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     the Palestinians are desperate. 

    The fact that you would phrase this as a recent development is concerning.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    But this doesn't mean the Palestinians are evil.

    The fact that you would see this, or assume other nations see this as a good vs evil issue for decades is also concerning.
  • Greyparrot
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    You also don't understand the article at all if you can't explain why the Arab nations are tired of Palestine's 70-year derangement with the elimination of Israel above any other concern. A derangement fueled solely by Hamas and the PLO.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @Greyparrot
    The fact that you would see this, or assume other nations see this as a good vs evil issue for decades is also concerning.
    To be clear, i don't think either side is evil. Ethang very much does though. His argument is that one side is corrupt murderers and the other is completely blameless. That is a stupid bigoted view. 

    The palestinians have done some terrible things the Israeli's. The Israeli's have done lots of terrible things to the palestinians. I don't pretend that either side is blameless. But the Israeli's are holding all the power. they occupy the land. they have the billions in foreign aid. They have the super power backing them. If there is ever going to be peace then they are going to need to compromise. Every time they build another settlement on occupied palestinian land they make it harder and harder to ever achieve peace. And that is exactly why they are doing it. They know that if they build these a few at a time and keep the conflict going for decades, at some point it will be impossible to ever give the land back.

    They are getting everything they want from the status quo. They have no reason at all to compromise. Which is exactly why outside forces need to force them to the table. Because otherwise they will keep abusing the Palestinians for decades and there will never be peace. 
  • ethang5
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    Every time you beat a liberal with facts, he goes into a huffy-fit and accuses you of being a homophone, racist, bigot, warmonger, misogynist, (insert any liberal hate word here) and runs off in self-righteous indignation.

    Here are the facts:
    1. The Jews were in Israel first.
    2. Israel has never been devoid of Jews.

    These two facts prove that Jews never lost possession of their country.

    Virtually the entire world, including the US government until this week, disagrees.
    Untrue. I travel the world over. What most countries are afraid of is a bunch of jihadi morons raining down terror if they don't tow the UN liberal line. The citizens of most christian countries do not agree with their governments votes in the UN against Israel.

    You are saying that you want to engage in perpetual warfare until 1/4 of the worlds population submits to your will.
    No, that is your liberal take on what I said. Islam is the problem, not the people. It is a violent, primitive ideology that has proven to be a bane of any people adopting it.

    Are you aware there were Muslim terrorist events against America under both presidents Washington and Lincoln?

    Do you know of any place on earth where Islamists have lived peacefully with their neighbors? Even when those neighbors were themselves Muslims?

    The Palestinians get treated the way they do because of their behavior. Nothing else. They could have had their homeland by now, but they don't want it. They want jihad.

    There were 30 bombing incidents in Sweden in the month of October alone. 30! In Sweden!! Guess by whom?

    It is the, what did Greyparrot say, historical international ignorance and moral vapidness of liberals like you that allow things like that to happen.

    And just like in Chicago and Los Angeles, and Seattle now, liberals will never see the connection between the horrible situations and their idiotic liberal policies that caused them.

    Like the liberals in America, they will accept reality, or they will die. Every time people take liberal nonsense over reality, they pay the price.

    Vaping? Check. Drug culture? Check. Aids? Check. Reality, or death.
  • Greyparrot
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    It's true Israel is in a good position, but it wasn't because of anything recent. There were a slew of very bad choices made by the PLO for 70 years that brought us to the current state of affairs. I lived through most of this so I can understand how you would not be aware of all the bad decisions made, especially the land for peace deals that the PLO and Yasir Arafat walked away from because the agreements did not proceed in the stated goal of eliminating Israel and reversing the outcome of the 1948 war.

  • HistoryBuff
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    There were lots of mistakes made on both sides. i am not trying to say there wasn't. But at this moment, Isreal holds all the cards and is actively blocking any progress on peace. America has huge influence because of all the foreign aid. If american used that leverage they could potentially get peace. But Israel will need to compromise to make that happen. 
  • ethang5
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    They [Israel] are getting everything they want from the status quo. They have no reason at all to compromise.
    This is an assumption without logic.

    Consider America and the Native Americans. America was in even a stronger position with Native Americans than Israel is with the Palestinians, yet America compromised.

    Israel has Palestinian citizens. Some of them in the Parliament. Israel is a democracy where Palestinian citizens can and do seek redress in free and fair courts. How free is an Israeli in Gaza?

    If the Palestinians would renounce terror and truly seek peace, they would get it because that is what Israel has proven it wants.

    Israel did not have to accept Palestinian citizens. It could respond to Palestinian aggression with massive lethal force, yet it doesn't.

    It is actually you who condemns all Israel as wanting to abuse all Palestinians forever. You are the bigot.