-->
@Zaradi
No incentive to waive their NK?
Affirmative. Could just be my personal opinion tho cause I’ve never played any night start games.
drafterman's QuickFire Series 1 (QFS1) - DP1
Posts
Total:
531
-->
@ILikePie5
@Speedrace
@PressF4Respect
@SirAnonymous
@Zaradi
Okay guys hear me out for a second. Been thinking about this for a bit, and the more I think about it the more I think it's a good idea, but I am open to feedback.
How would you all feel about a mass claim?
I know, I know, mass claims are generally unpopular. I know why they are, and am on board with the reasons. But there are some exceptions to that reason for this game that I think one might benefit town.
Reason 1: There are less players overall, less town roles, we are forcing mafia and 3rd party to fake claim quicker because 33% of the living players are scum. Usually in larger games by the time we've gotten to 6 players left, all living players have already claimed anyway.
Reason 2: We had a whole night phase without any information produced from it. If the protective role comes out and says who they protected, the protected player will be confirmed town. I get that it puts the protective role at risk, but I almost think it would be more valuable to have a confirmed player DP1 because it would increase our chances of lynching scum today to 40% with 2/5 suspects. If you are town and reading this like I am, you know you are town, and that increases that percentage 50% 2/4 suspects. Also it technically won't be a mass claim all the way, since the confirmed player won't be required to mass claim. If the info about the protected player doesn't come out now, there's a chance mafia will kill that player or the protective role next night phase anyway, and we will have had a whole day phase with potentially helpful POE info go to waste.
Reason 3: It's a quickfire, not a normal game. I feel like playing around with new strategies and meta has less of a negative impact here than a large game. While mass claiming is an "old" meta. it was also rarely used from my experience, and I don't think it even happens on Dart, so it probably is new here.
What do you guys think? I am open to negative feedback, and can nix the whole idea if more of you are opposed to it than for it. But if the majority of us to agree to it, then we gotta force everyone to comply to this for it to work. Also since I am the one suggesting it, I realize I'll be the one to claim first, and I am okay with that.
-->
@ILikePie5
I can see a few potential reasons to want to waive it, particularly because the set up leaves there being only one mafia. But it could've also just been blocked like Lunatic thinks.
If you want my personal opinion, I think it was waived.
-->
@Lunatic
Why not just go ahead and claim if this is what you want to do? If you want to try and get out all the claims before the two scum have time to try and piece together a good fake-claim, time is not your friend.
-->
@Zaradi
Why do you think it was waived?
-->
@ILikePie5
My instinct is to agree with you that the mafia wouldn't deliberately waive a chance to NK. However, if they did NK, that means someone protected someone else but isn't saying who, which makes no sense. The other option is a roleblocker, but that would still be town concealing info for no reason. I do see two ways out of the conundrum.
1. The mafia wasn't online during the NP and didn't notice it was a night start.
2. Their target was bulletproof.
However, I would not trust a bulletproof claim that much because it's too convenient for the mafia. On the flip side, I wouldn't reject it either.
-->
@Zaradi
I can see a few potential reasons to want to waive it,
Can you please elaborate?
-->
@Lunatic
Too many ways for it to go wrong. You're firing your shot off into the literal dark with zero information to go off of as to who a good kill target would be. You also don't know what kind of roles your firing your kill off into, meaning that you could either get caught and lynched real fast or just waste it on a bad target that a little patience would tell you could be a bad target. They're the informed minority, but they like to gather info just as much as town does.
Moreover, NKs give info to the town. Reduces the pool of potential players that can be scum by one, meaning that a lynch is more likely to have their name on it than not. Waiving the NK leads to a lot more misinfo being given to town (was there a successful doc/protective role? being a good example), which is usually a net gain for mafia.
-->
@Lunatic
How would you all feel about a mass claim?
I’d be open to it, but the last people to claim are inherently suspicious if we do
-->
@ILikePie5
#68
-->
@SirAnonymous
Why would a person who successfully protected the NK out themselves here in DP1?
-->
@Zaradi
Why not just go ahead and claim if this is what you want to do? If you want to try and get out all the claims before the two scum have time to try and piece together a good fake-claim, time is not your friend.
I didn't say I "wanted" to claim, I am just willing to claim first if a mass claim is decided upon. Otherwise I would just be claiming for potentially no reason if mafia aren't going to be forced to fake claim right after.
So what's your thoughts on the mass claim? You on board or no?
-->
@SirAnonymous
Only people smart enough to waive are Lunatic and ZaraMy instinct is to agree with you that the mafia wouldn't deliberately waive a chance to NK. However, if they did NK, that means someone protected someone else but isn't saying who, which makes no sense. The other option is a roleblocker, but that would still be town concealing info for no reason. I do see two ways out of the conundrum.
-->
@Zaradi
Why would a person who successfully protected the NK out themselves here in DP1?
Town confirms two people. And with the info I have and Speed supposedly has we can conduct a POE
-->
@ILikePie5
We could popcorn it. The person who claims gets to choose who claims next, and so on and so forth. So it would be out of scums handsI’d be open to it, but the last people to claim are inherently suspicious if we do
-->
@Lunatic
You on board or no?
Ladies first.
-->
@ILikePie5
I don't see how it would confirm two people. At best it confirms one person, but even that I'd hesitate to say is "confirmation". And coming out here just paints them as a target for the next NP.
-->
@Lunatic
<br>We could popcorn it. The person who claims gets to choose who claims next, and so on and so forth. So it would be out of scums hands
Still through chance. I think we should put this idea on the hopper and expand on the person Drafter game to me and the person and role Drafter supposedly gave to Speed.
-->
@Lunatic
That doesn't respond to his point.
-->
@Zaradi
If I get two more "yes"'s to my proposition, that will be majority in affirmation to the mass claim and I'll go ahead and start.Ladies first.
-->
@PressF4Respect
Hey come out here and participate.
-->
@ILikePie5
@Zaradi
If we end up mass claiming, then the idea would be to lynch today, given our odds of finding scum will be increased. I don't know if I necessarily buy the last person who claims is automatically scummy, or less believable if we do the pop corn method, because scum could have been among the first few to have been forced to claim.
-->
@Zaradi
I don't see how it would confirm two people. At best it confirms one person, but even that I'd hesitate to say is "confirmation". And coming out here just paints them as a target for the next NP.
A town player would not be given the name of the mafia
Mafia already know who town are.
Town town, town TP or TP town are significantly more likely.
Plus was supposedly given a role two which increases the risk factor for him
-->
@Zaradi
Im busy setting up a debate with someone. I’ll post in a bit
Brb, at work, going on a quick patrol.
<br>
-->
@Lunatic
The idea behind the person who's last to claim is inherently more suspicious is because they've had the most time to gather info off of other people's claims to come up with a good fake-claim, which makes it hard to believe them, even if scum was earlier in the queue of people to claim.
-->
@ILikePie5
A town player would not be given the name of the mafiaMafia already know who town are.
Are we still talking about a potential protective role outting themselves or you and Speed's role PMs? My rejection of people getting town confirmed was addressed to the former.
-->
@Lunatic
I can think of a couple reasons not to.
1. If Speedrace is right that the roles are random, then there could be roles that, if revealed, would be to the detriment of the town because the mafia would gain too much info.
2. Again, if he's right, it would be easy for the mafia to claim some obscure role and get away with it.
Overall, though, I like the idea. Even if we can't find the scum directly, we should be able to town confirm other roles. I vote yes, especially to the popcorn idea. That's a great idea.
-->
@Zaradi
The idea behind the person who's last to claim is inherently more suspicious is because they've had the most time to gather info off of other people's claims to come up with a good fake-claim, which makes it hard to believe them, even if scum was earlier in the queue of people to claim.
+1
-->
@Zaradi
I understand that idea, but unlike just normally waiting scum can't be forced to sit there and buy time. If they do we put them at L-1 and consider lynching them for delaying.
Under normal circumstances it makes sense if a person just waits to be last to be more suspicious of them, but under popcorn method we are gonna force this out quick. Pretty much everyone seems to be around maybe besides press F too, so he wouldn't be a bad idea to start the popcorn with. This phase is only gonna last 36, so I would want the claims out quick.