Has anyone one has seen God

Author: Stephen ,

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  • Stephen
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    Stephen
     Appreciate that there is already a thread concerning biblical contradictions but I feel this particular contradiction deserves a thread of its own because it concerns god directly.
     
    Did anyone at all see god?
     
    1 John 4:12 King James Version (KJV)  No man hath seen God at any time.
     
    Well that for me is a definite statement.  I am sure there will be those who will attempt to re-write this verse thereby putting new and alternate words into the mouth of the author ; John,
     
    But of course they would have to do the same with Timothy who states ;
     
    1 Timothy 6:16 King James Version (KJV) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see[God]: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
     
     Both of these statements deny the fact that the bible is extremely clear when it comes to who has seen (not to mention spoke to) god face to face.
     
    The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day (Genesis 18:1).
     
    The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend (Exodus 33:11).
     
     And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.(Genesis 32:30) King James Version (KJV)

    This isn't to mention that Adam and Eve are also said to have seen god.
     

  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Deb-8-a-bull
    --> @Stephen
    Are you asking .....   Did anyone at all see Jesus?
  • Stephen
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    No. I wrote the word  god very clearly. 
  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    I Appreciate that there is already a thread concerning biblical contradictions but I feel this particular contradiction deserves a thread of its own because it concerns god directly.
    So you posted a fake quote of Jesus in the
    biblical contradictions thread, it was pointed out to you, you pretended you did not see it, but here you are, with another thread, and another so called contradiction, having never addressed the answers given in the contradiction thread, or the charge of fake quotes.

    Ok.

    In Exodus 3:6 is this statement.

    And Moses hid his face: For he was afraid to look upon God.

    I'm sure you are familiar with the burning bush passage.

    Now, had Moses NOT hid his face and looked, what would he have seen?

    God, or a burning bush?

    You read the bible like a 3rd grade literalist when you want a "contradiction", but at other times you will assume stuff not in the text and pretend your assumption is reality.

    No man has seen God AS HE IS.

    Your verse in 1st Tim 6 says, "whom no man hath seen, nor can see[God]:

    In other places we are told we cannot see God AS HE IS or we will die. God must appear to us in some other form we can perceive, so that we don't die.

    Later in the Epistles, we are told we will finally see God AS HE IS at the rapture because we shall all be changed to be like Him.

    Your 1st verse,
    The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day (Genesis 18:1).

    God appeared as a man. One of three men in fact. This isn't seeing God AS HE IS.

    Your 2nd verse,
    And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.(Genesis 32:30) King James Version (KJV)

    Jacob only says he has seen God. When in fact he had only wrestled with a man. This is not seeing God AS HE IS.

    Your 3rd verse,
    The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend (Exodus 33:11).

    I will post more of the passage so as to vanish your claim of a contradiction, OK slick?

    9. And it came to pass, as Moses entered into the tabernacle, the cloudy pillar descended, and stood at the door of the tabernacle, and the Lord talked with Moses.

    What did Moses see? A cloudy pillar or God? Face to face here means proximity, not what Moses could see. God was face to face close to him.

    How do I know I'm right? In verse 18, Moses wants to, and asks to, see God. Why would he ask to see God in verse 18 if he had just seen God in verse 10?

    But God replies in verse 20., you cannot see my face: for there shall no man see me and live.

    So even your example you use to show a contradiction, has no contradiction. No man has seen God, in fact, No man CAN see God.

    Only one man has ever seen God AS HE IS, and that is the man Jesus Christ.

    When Phillip asked Jesus to show them God, Jesus asked Phillip, "Have I been with you all this time and yet you don't know me?" When Phillip looked, what did he see? Jesus or God?

    Because of your ignorance and immaturity in Christian doctrine, you read the bible as if words can have only one meaning, and you cut verses and then act as if the little snippet you have cut is the entire verse.

    So, no man has seen God AS HE IS. We see what God appears as so that we don't die.

    1Co 15:51 - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
    1Co 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

    1Jo 3:2 - Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

    This "contradiction" is kaput jedthro.

  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Deb-8-a-bull
    I'd now like us all to take 7 seconds, to have a little think about the brilliance of this bloke who said.
    ' Hey.
    He said. ' hey what we should do is, write it in scripture '  
    7
    And a 6 
    And a 5

    And a 3
    2
    And 1
    Ok..................

    Brilliant isn't it? 
    Having God speak scripture to YOU and you like only you know how,  decipher it the quirky awsome way you do. 
    AWESOME

    Also Remember,  every Christian on this site is in the TOP 100 OF ALLLLLLLL TIME at scripture translating.

    THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A  " AVERAGE SCRIPTURE TRANSLATOR " 

    There is so many versions of the bible, you'd think they would have a ( TELL IT HOW IT IS ) type version. 
    But no.
     
    Arrrrrrr SCRIPTURE , YOU WOULD HAVE YA GOD SPEAK ANYTHING BUT. 

















  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5 @Stephen



    Stephen,

    When you speak of "God" and then include passages from the JUDEO-Christian Bible, then you are talking about the Hebrew serial killer Yahweh God that I as a TRUE Christian have to accept.  It would be beneficial for you to state which God you are talking about.  Erroneously this same God is also called Allah, or Jesus, as Yahweh God incarnate.

    As you are aware, ethang5, when pressed with biblical axioms that he has never seen, is a direct runaway from biblical discussions with some of the funniest and lame excuses ever seen upon this forum. But, in turn, he is present to show DEBATEART Religion forum in what a FAKE Christian truly looks and acts like.  So, at least give him this duly noted recognition.


    .
  • ethang5
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    The huge empty space at the end of your posts make more sense than your posts.
  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    I take it you haven't spoken to Jesus yet. Let us know when you do.

    But be careful. If every post of yours to anyone always mentions Ethan, people might start to think you're obsessed and a little kooky.

    Hari was the same way. Let's hope you don't share his history.
  • Deb-8-a-bull
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    Deb-8-a-bull
    But surely Mary must of seen God right?

  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    So you posted a fake quote of Jesus in the


    Stop telling lies. Lies won't win you an argument and I do not have to respond to you at all if I wish not to. You on the other hand must defend your scripture against these very clear contradictions. You have attempted to address only 1 or 2 (and failed) to explain them away with rational or even good old commonsense and have chosen to ignore the other near on 300! contradictions that are clearly there written in your scripture as many here admit to noting for themselves and accept them for what they are.

    This "contradiction" is kaput jedthro.

    No, the contradiction remains as clear as day. And you trying to filibusterer and bore people rigid with long winded passages of corrupt text from the same corrupted, ambiguous source simply digs a bigger hole in the scriptures. But you are far to blind to recognize this fact.  Name calling doesn't win you arguments either. And, as I predicted, you are attempting to rewrite the scripture to hide this unavoidable very clearly written, biblical contradiction.

    John clearly states:
    1 John 4:12 King James Version (KJV)  No man hath seen God at any time. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< AT ANY TIME do you not see that???

    NOW READ HERE >>>>>>>>The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day (Genesis 18:1).
     
    The Lord would speak to Moses >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FACE TO FACE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,>>>>>>>>>> as one speaks to a friend<<<<<<<<<<< (Exodus 33:11).
     
     And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I have seen God FACE TO FACE,<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< and my life is preserved.(Genesis 32:30) King James Version (KJV)

    This isn't to mention that Adam and Eve are also said to have seen god. or to mention that Jacob wrestled with this being called god and Abraham spoke, ate and drank with his god.




    There is no getting away from the fact that these verses are written in biblical scripture , no matter how many times you try to tell us they mean something else , or that I don't understand or how many times you try to put YOUR words into the mouths of the biblical authors and characters. 

    You do have an argument and you certainly do NOT have an explanation.

  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    So you posted a fake quote of Jesus in the bible contradiction thread..

    Stop telling lies.
    I Posted your lie and the actual verse. You never addressed it.

    You do have an argument and you certainly do NOT have an explanation. 
    That must be why you needed to delete them and pretend you didn't see them.

    Lol. You're fake Steve. Obviously fake.
  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    That must be why you needed to delete them and pretend you didn't see them.
     

    More lies. I have not deleted anything. And I don't NEED to delete anything. Stop telling lies.

  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    Post #4 Stephen.

    Don't worry, when you dodge it, the points in it stand.

    I know posters like you. You don't want to debate, you just want to make claims and then run away.

    That has never worked, because people aren't stupid. Your running away makes people see that your claims are bogus.

    You posted 200 so called contradictions but can't respond to even 2 of them rebutted.

    You are obviously devoid of substance. In a short while, you will run away from here, and go make yet another lame thread alleging the same old lame "contradictions" that were rebutted here.

    Most members will see you for the vacuous anti-theist poster you are. I don't even need to repost #4.

    You're already dead.
  • Dynasty
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    --> @Stephen
    "Has anyone one has seen God"
    English: 1 0 0
  • BrotherDThomas
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    --> @ethang5



    .
    Ethang5,

    YOUR REVEALING QUOTE: "I take it you haven't spoken to Jesus yet. Let us know when you do.But be careful. If every post of yours to anyone always mentions Ethan, people might start to think you're obsessed and a little kooky."

    The trouble for you is the fact that I have been in contact with the Savior, and this is why you're getting so much attention from the Brother D., where Jesus has reminded me in the passage below to address your outright biblical ignorance, and from running away from His word like you have done ad infinitum upon this forum, understood?

    "My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." (James 5:19-20)


    .





  • ethang5
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    --> @BrotherDThomas
    The trouble for you is the fact that I have been in contact with the Savior,...
    No trouble at all dee dee. I'm impressed. How many people do we have on the internet claiming to have a private line to God? .......well, how many credible ones that is. Lol.

    But you are quoting my questions and still not answering them. Do you have a set schedule for talking to Jesus? Or does He just show up unannounced? 

    I imagine as the big kahuna Himself, Jesus needs no appointment. Or does He send a lemo to get you? Or maybe even a chariot! That would be awesome!

    Imagine dee dee in a chariot of fire blazing up into Heaven for the great christian to go and meet the genocidal lunatic! What a picture!

    So please let us know when you're due to meet him again. And thanks for trying to save me from a multitude of sins, but your kind effort was wasted, Jesus already did it. But there's always next time eh?

    If I saw you in that chariot, I'd be yelling, "go dee dee go!!

    Lol!
  • Stephen
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    --> @Dynasty
    "Has anyone one has seen God"
    English: 1 0 0

    Thank you. I noticed after but it was to late to edit it. And that was because I had so much trouble trying to post it in the first place and this is why>>   "Invalid Value Format".  https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3217/explain-invalid-value-format

     Now do you have any comment about the content of this topic or are you simply here to pick out grammatical errors?


  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    Post #4 Stephen.

    Yes ethang. I read your poor convoluted attempt at post 4 where you try to explain away this blinding biblical contradiction, but it changes nothing. Like I have already pointed out , your poor attempt at re writing the scriptures is always your first  default, and putting words into the mouths of the biblical authors and characters is your second default.

    You posted 200 so called contradictions but can't respond to even 2 of them rebutted.

    I posted way more than that after you challenged members with this post:

    @ethang5 post  9 "83 days later, how many contradictions in the bible have been listed here so far?"https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/2392/contradictions-in-the-bible-thread

    . You then cried that there were far too many.  You also on the other hand, then simply tried to explain away only TWO of over THREE HUNDRED contradictions  using passages from the same unreliable contradictory source.


     just want to make claims and then run away.

    I haven't gone anywhere. I don't have to run away from anything. The burden of proof my friend rests entirely on your miserable hunched shoulders.

    Your running away makes people see that your claims are bogus.

    There is nothing bogus about the contradiction that I have highlighted in my first post of this thread . It is there for anyone either to see and accept it for what it is, or they are free to challenge it.  Here it is again for those reading here to decide if or not theses are biblical contradictions or not.>>>

    1 John 4:12 King James Version (KJV)  No man hath seen God at any time.
     
    Well that for me is a definite statement.  I am sure there will be those who will attempt to re-write this verse thereby putting new and alternate words into the mouth of the author ; John,
     
    But of course they would have to do the same with Timothy who states ;
     
    1 Timothy 6:16 King James Version (KJV) Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see[God]: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
     
     Both of these statements deny the fact that the bible is extremely clear when it comes to who has seen (not to mention spoke to) god face to face.
     
    The Lord appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day (Genesis 18:1).
     
    The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, as one speaks to a friend (Exodus 33:11).
     
     And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.(Genesis 32:30) King James Version (KJV)

    This isn't to mention that Adam and Eve are also said to have seen god  and Jacob wrestled with this being called god and Abraham spoke, ate and drank with his god.



     


  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Deb-8-a-bull
    But surely Mary must have seen God right.

    No they didn't have electric lights back in the day.

    And so I expect he crept up quietly and took her from behind, whilst Jo was out back tending to the donkey.

    Oh my! You're a big boy Jo, she cried .



  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    Yes ethang. I read your poor convoluted attempt at post 4 where you try to explain away this blinding biblical contradiction, but it changes nothing.
    I know you read it. That you cannot address anything in it is what shows you're bogus.

    I haven't gone anywhere.
    If you were here, you would address my points instead of simply saying you disagree. Your post is here. You aren't.

    I don't have to run away from anything.
    That is true, which makes your running more puzzling.

    All you do is run away from my points, and repost your lame claims.

    You are a fraud. It's obvious even to you. Which is why you don't engage the points, you just keep posting your original spam.

    I guess you have no idea that guys like you with your tactics are a dime a dozen online.
  • Stephen
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    --> @ethang5
    If you were here, you would address my points instead of simply saying you disagree. Your post is here. You aren't.

    You haven't made any points though , have you. You have simply posted verses that also contradict the contradiction/s that I have highlighted. This is what I mean when I wrote that   by you using passages from the same unreliable contradictory source you are digging a bigger hole. The burden of proof , as I have already pointed you lies with you. And you have failed to prove that the contradiction highlighted on this thread is not a contradiction when it clearly is.

    If one makes a statement that is full of contradictions, would it be sensible or reliable to use the same contradictory statement to prove the statement is not contradictory? This is what you are doing , but you are too far up your own jacksie to even consider yourself to be in the wrong. But I don't care, personally. People can see for themselves that you  are having a lot of trouble explaining away the highlighted contradiction that is the topic of this thread.

    You have failed. The facts are on my side.

  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Stephen
    Thangy's a self confessed Conservative.

    Ergo a rigid set of principles irrespective of contradiction.

    Seems like a nice bloke though.



  • Stephen
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    --> @zedvictor4
    That would be my guess too
  • Dynasty
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    --> @Stephen
    Just pointing out the grammatical error.
  • ethang5
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    --> @Stephen
    You haven't made any points though , have you. 
    Sure I have. The bible did not say Moses saw God. And when I posted verse 9, that  was clear. You ran.

    The verses about Abraham say God appeared as a man, not as God. And in fact, the passage shows Abraham thought they were angels, not God.

    The burden of proof , as I have already pointed you lies with you.
    No sir. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. That would be you. But you seem to think simply posting a verse and then calling it a contradiction is an argument. It isn't.

    you have failed to prove that the contradiction highlighted on this thread is not a contradiction when it clearly is.
    You have failed to show any contradiction, as such, I have nothing to fail at. You claim the bible says Moses saw God. The bible says no such thing.

    You post cut verses, and then pretend they say what you claim. Here is one example:

    You claim verse 10 says Moses saw God. That is a lie. And I showed in verse 9 that God appeared in a cloud pillar. You ran away.

    I even showed that Moses asks to see God in verse 18, and I ask you, If you claim that verse 10 is saying Moses saw God, why is he asking to see God in the very conversation you site? You run away.

    People can see for themselves that you  are having a lot of trouble explaining away the highlighted contradiction that is the topic of this thread.
    People can see, that is why I don't need to bother much. They can see that you dodged every question in my replies to you. For example, what would Moses have seen at the burning bush? You run away.

    I showed the the bible says no man can see God as He is, and in the verse you cite as evidence of a contradiction, Moses does ask to see God, and God says no you cannot or you'll die!

    Your own citation shows there is no contradiction. The verses you cite do not say what you claim they say. And when you are corrected, you run away.

    This is why anti-theists so often lose arguments here. You come to a debate board so convinced you're right, you think there is no need to defend your illogical claims. You think everyone shares your certainty. They don't, and your arguments die from a lack of support.

    The questions you dodged in my post remain there. And they convict you whether I'm conservative or not.

    It is clear you are a fake. And I can see you know you are as well.