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@Smithereens
I wasn't around during drama.org's prime, but I was around for the last election
good times
Appointed moderators
Posts
Archived
Read-only
Total:
108
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@Smithereens
a moderator should have no further role than enforcing the ToS
Then I question the idea of having a specific moderation style at all. If the moderator simply enforces the ToS, no more, no less, then there is no sense in having a moderation style. Either they enforce the ToS, or they step down as a mod.
However if they, like police officers, have a high degree of discretion in determining what kind of behavior is a ToS violation, then style comes into play and we can weigh the pros and cons of lax or strict moderation.
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@ethang5
I will give bsh1 a chance. Clean slate and all that.
Thank you. It is interesting how your idea of an ideal mod contrasts with Smithers. Modding in a community of diverse opinions is always a delicate balancing act, and I will try to be the best juggler I can.
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@drafterman
Then I question the idea of having a specific moderation style at all. If the moderator simply enforces the ToS, no more, no less, then there is no sense in having a moderation style. Either they enforce the ToS, or they step down as a mod.
Style reflects the complexity of having a black and white rule for behaviours that come in all shades of grey. It's not always clear if something is going too far or not. Ethang for example calls all the atheists from the religious forums trolls and if he had his way they'd all be banned and the religious forum would have no atheists. I think we can agree that is too far, and conversely "leave the religious forum to itself" is probably too little. Having an individual to solve ambiguity is a matter of competency and methodology ie style imho.
In the end we just need people we can trust with whatever issue we create.
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@Smithereens
I wanted and asked for no bans on DDO. Not even for hari. Your info is faulty.
I want moderation, not bans. Bans are only a small part of moderation.
Finally, there is not only laissez-faire moderation style and too strict. Those are not the only 2 options, and I cannot see why people pretend as if it is either or.
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@bsh1
Thank you.
You're welcome.
It is interesting how your idea of an ideal mod contrasts with Smithers.
Yes. He believes a mod should do nothing, like AirMax, and as I fear, you do too.
What is interesting is how your idea of an ideal mod seems contrasts with Mike right now. I am betting against me, and hoping I am wrong about you.
I like Mike, so I will assume he made an informed choice. And if you make me eat crow, I will eat it gladly.
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@ethang5
Yes. He believes a mod should do nothing, like AirMax, and as I fear, you do too.
nah. "a moderator should have no further role than enforcing the ToS"
this site belongs to mike so it's his prerogative what he does. A mod does not and should not have the same rights as mike, as mods are users just like you and me. Their ideas on how the site should run are enforceable insofar as we agree they should be, that right does not exist on it's own.
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@Smithereens
Neither of our opinions matter. Only the mods and the owner.
I have objective evidence that Max, and by default bsh1, would not have banned any of the people Mike did. Max did not even have a problem with hari. If that is what bsh1 means by laissez-faire, he's going to have to exercise his mod powers on me.
Max did not even enforce ToS. If that is what Mike wants here, that is his prerogative, but I think this time I will leave before going through another DDO. Why anyone would think "hands off" was a good way to mod after the clear example on DDO is beyond me.
Mods are not supposed to "juggle" members ideas of what an ideal Mod should be. He should mod regardless of those subjective ideas.
But everyone is innocent until proven guilty, so we'll see.
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@Vaarka
No. Sorry.
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@bsh1
Moderation is currently just getting started and will need to review reports to begin making determinations. Bans, except in exceptional circumstances, should not come about overnight.I will not comment on specific previous bans made by the site ownership, partly because I am not up-to-date on all the specifics and justifications for the ban, and partly because those bans preceded any official site conduct policy (which should be up soon).Call out threads are trouble. I have already reached out to a member about them, and will continue to discourage their use and to take action where appropriate.
Fair.
The previous bans did a lot to cement my trust in the administration and my hope that DART would have a higher standard of management than DDO. Now that the CoC is up, I can see they were all banned for behavior it prohibits, so that settles that -- with the notable exception of thread spam. I can't find anything in the rules regarding that.
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@ethang5
If there is ever content you want me to examine, please report it or link it to me directly. If you're concerned about me being too hands off, it's best to ensure that any potential misconduct is brought to my (or Virt's) attention.
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@bsh1
Will do bsh1. Will do.
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@Castin
If, by thread spam, you mean all the "lover doctors" and "ali baba witchcraft" accounts, those will be deleted summarily. This website is not for others to advertise snake oil products and services. This falls under mod discretionary authority, but if there are concerns about its absence in the rules, I can always have the COC updated.
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@bsh1
rip
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@Castin
It's potentially problematic. If it becomes a serious issue, I will instigate a conversation about whether it ought to be permitted.
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@ethang5
While I am glad we finally have mods, I am disappointed in bsh1. Not that he isn't an intelligent fair person, but because he was too much an AirMax man. All indications are that he will be just as much of a non-mod as AirMax was.For example, I don't think he would have banned Z, Willows, Lunatic or hari the way Mike did. Basically, we have AirMax in all but every thing but the name. And that is the first step to sharing DDO's history.With Mike knowing all this and still making him top mod does not fill me with faith. Let me be clear, I don't dislike bsh1, or think he will be deliberately unconcerned, he just is an apprentice of AirMax and sees AirMax's ennui as the proper way to mod. That is how he was thought.Ok, now that I've alienated both mods, I will give bsh1 a chance. Clean slate and all that.I hope both mods much success and little drama.
This is a terrible post. I'd be much more concerned about the opposite happening
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@bsh1
It's potentially problematic. If it becomes a serious issue, I will instigate a conversation about whether it ought to be permitted.
Well, it wasn't permitted. Mike temp banned that user. But it was in the gray area before the CoC was up, so I'm not sure where that leaves things.
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@Castin
Airmax could see Ip addresses and even helped Juggle to dox some users as in full name, address via getting their lawyers to pressure ISPs.
Airmax was NOT a hand-off god-mod (god mod is below admin but above a standard mod in what they can access and do). He could delete forum posts, forum-restrict you, vote-restrict you, ban you, in fact he could alter the contents of your profile but never used this power maliciously.
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@Castin
I am not going to interpret Mike's actions pre-COC as binding precedent. The COC is the moderation bible, so to speak, and only precedent that keeps the COC in mind counts in anyway as directive of current policy.
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@TheHammer
What's the opposite?
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@bsh1
Thanks for the clarification.
Helped Juggle doxx users?? I assume it was in extenuating circumstances.Airmax could see Ip addresses and even helped Juggle to dox some users as in full name, address via getting their lawyers to pressure ISPs.Airmax was NOT a hand-off god-mod (god mod is below admin but above a standard mod in what they can access and do). He could delete forum posts, forum-restrict you, vote-restrict you, ban you, in fact he could alter the contents of your profile but never used this power maliciously.
I'm sure he had the power to do those things, but I still found the moderation on DDO hands-off.
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@Castin
I HIGHLY recommend listening to this podcast about DDO Moderation:
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@ethang5
A heavily over moderated site.
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@TheHammer
As I said, it isn't an either or.
Plus, I was there, so I'm more worried about what did happen than what could have happened.
The bottom line is that Mike apparently wants bsh1 to benchwarm the mod seat. I'm sure neither Mike or bsh1 will lose sleep if I left. It would have been better if we had a mod who believes in actually modding.
But I'm done. Everyone will play their role. No hard feelings except for the trolls.
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@TheHammer
While I am glad we finally have mods, I am disappointed in bsh1. Not that he isn't an intelligent fair person, but because he was too much an AirMax man. All indications are that he will be just as much of a non-mod as AirMax was.For example, I don't think he would have banned Z, Willows, Lunatic or hari the way Mike did. Basically, we have AirMax in all but every thing but the name. And that is the first step to sharing DDO's history.With Mike knowing all this and still making him top mod does not fill me with faith. Let me be clear, I don't dislike bsh1, or think he will be deliberately unconcerned, he just is an apprentice of AirMax and sees AirMax's ennui as the proper way to mod. That is how he was thought.Ok, now that I've alienated both mods, I will give bsh1 a chance. Clean slate and all that.I hope both mods much success and little drama.This is a terrible post. I'd be much more concerned about the opposite happening
I don't think it was a terrible post. Eth doesn't want DART to become like DDO, where lack of moderation became detrimental to the health of the forum. I share his feelings about a return to those standards. They were pretty terrible.
But I agree with drafterman that DDO's problem was a distant and neglectful administration, and that we don't have that problem on DART.
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@ethang5
@ShabShoral
I hear ya, eth. My heart sank for a second when I read the words "hands off" and "will follow DDO's approach to modding". Flashback moment. But I really like the CoC they wrote, and if they just enforce their rules there I think they'll do a good job. Have you taken a look at it yet? Particularly liked the breakdown of the various kinds of insults and attacks and their place in the spectrum of internet hostility.
I HIGHLY recommend listening to this podcast about DDO Moderation:
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Don't know Virt so idk what to say for him... will do FINE
Bsh seemed to be a good person on DDO. Organized and popular. I like this mod choice. He never gave me any problems and kept pretty active in the community, talking to newbies
Bsh seemed to be a good person on DDO. Organized and popular. I like this mod choice. He never gave me any problems and kept pretty active in the community, talking to newbies
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@DebateArt.com
Don't take this personally, but appointing Bsh1 was a very ill-advised move. The guy has gotten wrapped up in more drama over site governance bullshit than pretty much any other DDO member. He regularly overreaches and overreacts, and I think you're gonna regret this decision.