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Author: rbelivb

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@rbelivb
In a corporate body, unlike other mere clubs, companies, or groups, power is consolidated into a single entity that enjoys rights usually reserved only for individual citizens. This is just what you are ascribing to the US when you invoke the idea that cultures can be violated, or that the desires or sovereignty of the "culture" of the US ought to be prioritized over those of the individual members of society.

I don't know if writing and enforcing laws is something usually reserved only for individual citizens. The government is an entity created by its citizens for the purpose of protecting its rights and providing for its interests. I do say that the US government has a duty to its sovereign people more than it does to people in Zimbabwe. That is the whole point of having a country.

Is the purpose of employment not the productive utility it adds to the economy? How is it not corruption if you have workers doing unnecessary or under-productive labour to create an inflated measure of their value?

Employment is for the mutual interest of the employee and the employer. That means providing decent wages to the employee and providing valuable work for the employer. You are violating the interest of the American employee. I don't think businesses should have monopolies or that workers should have inordinate power, either. You are neglecting that there is still competition for labor among Americans.

The market is designed to serve the people, not the other way around. People don't live to be the most efficient, lowest wage workers possible. Decimating the living conditions of Americans in an economy and state they created is disgusting.
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@bmdrocks21
I don't know if writing and enforcing laws is something usually reserved only for individual citizens.
How is that relevant? Also, it is the purpose of a democratic republic to achieve just that.

The government is an entity created by its citizens for the purpose of protecting its rights and providing for its interests. I do say that the US government has a duty to its sovereign people more than it does to people in Zimbabwe. That is the whole point of having a country.
If that is the case, if a citizen wants to let a foreigner live with them in their own house, who has the authority to stop them from doing so?

Employment is for the mutual interest of the employee and the employer.
This is a totally subjective measure. If prices were simply paid to satisfy the interests of the recipient, we could not understand differences in price between the various products and services in the economy. These variations correspond to the differences in objective utility provided by the products or services offered in exchange.
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@rbelivb
How is that relevant? Also, it is the purpose of a democratic republic to achieve just that.


You said:
In a corporate body, unlike other mere clubs, companies, or groups, power is consolidated into a single entity that enjoys rights usually reserved only for individual citizens. 
I was giving an example of something not usually reserved for individual citizens. Something a GOVERNMENT must do. A democratic republic is a form of  government. A government has a responsibility to its PEOPLE, which are citizens within its BORDERS. 

If that is the case, if a citizen wants to let a foreigner live with them in their own house, who has the authority to stop them from doing so?
A citizen can house a foreigner if they want. That foreigner doesn't have the right to take others' jobs or vote, though.

This is a totally subjective measure. If prices were simply paid to satisfy the interests of the recipient, we could not understand differences in price between the various products and services in the economy. These variations correspond to the differences in objective utility provided by the products or services offered in exchange.

Prices are determined in a way that benefits both the recipient and the provider. The provider profits, the recipient gets a product that is worth as much or more than the money to them.  Products and services do provide utility, but those jobless Americans couldn't afford them. Everything in a market economy that is exchanged is done for mutual benefit. One side should not get inordinate power over the other. You are putting way too much power in the hands of business owners and taking it from workers. I would suggest taking a lot of power away from unions as a good alternative to letting the entire third world ruin our country in the name of "efficiency".
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@bmdrocks21
I was giving an example of something not usually reserved for individual citizens. Something a GOVERNMENT must do. A democratic republic is a form of  government. A government has a responsibility to its PEOPLE, which are citizens within its BORDERS. 
In my view, laws should by decided by the people and not imposed by the state, but this is a different subject.

A citizen can house a foreigner if they want. That foreigner doesn't have the right to take others' jobs or vote, though.
So they can't employ whoever they want?

You are putting way too much power in the hands of business owners and taking it from workers.
If we could cure some people of deafness or blindness, there would be less deaf or blind people left in society. That would mean that those remaining deaf or blind people would have less power and influence in the culture. Therefore should the government step in to prevent the cure from being given? If we cured blindness, we would be taking power from blind people and putting it in the hands of non-blind people. In the same sense, if we improve the economy and make more people wealthier, this would in effect be also placing power in the hands of wealthy people. But in the long run, I am trying to expand the circle of people who have influence in society, and I believe that your solution would narrow it.
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@rbelivb
In my view, laws should by decided by the people and not imposed by the state, but this is a different subject.

Yes, but who enforces these laws? The state.

So they can't employ whoever they want?

Within our borders, you cannot hire whoever you want. 

If we could cure some people of deafness or blindness, there would be less deaf or blind people left in society. That would mean that those remaining deaf or blind people would have less power and influence in the culture. Therefore should the government step in to prevent the cure from being given? If we cured blindness, we would be taking power from blind people and putting it in the hands of non-blind people. In the same sense, if we improve the economy and make more people wealthier, this would in effect be also placing power in the hands of wealthy people. But in the long run, I am trying to expand the circle of people who have influence in society, and I believe that your solution would narrow it.

American workers aren't a disease. There is no deaf/blind influence at all. Their interests are mainly pushed by non-deaf non-blind people. Would these immigrants look out for our interests the way we look out for the disabled? Or, would they compete for our jobs and not even consider us as they lower our wages and work conditions? I think the latter is more likely. 

How does putting more money in the pockets of large business owners give poor workers more influence?
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@Greyparrot
So you're okay with the elimination of the Native American culture, both North and South?
I asked you a question and you assume my side. Are you going to answer my question?

Add me as a receiver next time. 
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We are unified in our culture
Define culture.
not expressing group-think.
What the majority does as in vote Democrat or Republican is group think.
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Them Mexicans need to stay in their broke ass country. We can’t be supporting no broke illegals and at the same time giving up jobs to people who grew up in America 

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@TheRealNihilist
I feel like we argued this before.

Define culture.
It is shared history, attitudes, and traditions. A little more to it than that, but that is roughly what culture is.

What the majority does as in vote Democrat or Republican is group think.

There are many schools of thought. There are independent parties, and they are growing in popularity. It would be group think in an authoritarian government where they control what you can know and where the vast majority of people are in agreement. Republicans and Democrats are roughly half of the country each. But, even people within the same party have different opinions on policy. This isn't group-think.
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I feel like we argued this before.
Yes I think so.
It is shared history
What do you mean?
attitudes
What do you mean?
traditions
What do you mean?
This isn't group-think.
I'm dropping this. It is a psychological term and I haven't read stuff about that so I am going to drop it. 
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@TheRealNihilist
You aren't referencing me in comments. I didn't block you, did I?

History: We each accept American history as our own history. The Founding Fathers are important figures for us.
Attitudes: General sentiments most people share. Freedom is a big part of it in America. We like it. A lot of people like gun freedoms. To different degrees, yes, but in general we want to have them. European countries are quite different in that respect.
Traditions: Things we do annually. Christmas, Thanksgiving, and other holidays are examples of traditions. Our business etiquette is distinct.

I may have misused 'group-think' a little bit. It is about conforming to group opinion to not want to be an outlier. Either way, we still don't have it here because of our diverse sets of opinions.
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@bmdrocks21
Sorry completely forgot to add you as a receiver.

History: We each accept American history as our own history. The Founding Fathers are important figures for us.
What is American History?
Attitudes: General sentiments most people share. Freedom is a big part of it in America. We like it. A lot of people like gun freedoms. To different degrees, yes, but in general we want to have them. European countries are quite different in that respect.
The gun freedom is heavily contested. The attitudes of Democrats is far strict than Republicans. I don't really know how they have similar attitudes. Care to explain? You are missing a clear difference between the two parties.
Traditions: Things we do annually. Christmas, Thanksgiving, and other holidays are examples of traditions. Our business etiquette is distinct.
Have you seen the outcry with almost every single themed holiday? Example: Thanksgiving should be called native Indigenous day (I don't know if I got the name right but close enough)

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@TheRealNihilist
American history is the series of events that led to it becoming what it is today. Accepting this history as your own is part of being an American, whether you like the history or not.

Most Democrats still support more gun freedom than is allowed in nearly any country. Sure, some support taking all guns, but that is a minority. About 21% of Americans want the Second Amendment to be abolished, meaning 79% want it. That is a sizable majority. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/03/27/one-in-five-americans-want-the-second-amendment-to-be-repealed-national-survey-finds/

Yeah, the whole cry baby BS over holidays is a relatively new thing. Our culture is a bit more divided that it used to be, but it is still rather intact. 9 in 10 Americans celebrate Christmas. https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/12/18/5-facts-about-christmas-in-america/ Couldn't find stats on Thanksgiving, but I can imagine it follows the same trend. 
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@bmdrocks21
Accepting this history as your own is part of being an American, whether you like the history or not.
Historical revisionism is used by white supremacists to rewrite what occurred in Germany and state there is some sort of global conspiracy.
Most Democrats still support more gun freedom than is allowed in nearly any country.
You said and I quote "We are unified in our culture". How is America unified when everyone doesn't support gun freedom if I accept your findings?
Unified: brought together as one
As one doesn't leave anything up. It is like if I said 1 + 1 together equals 2 but then later retract my statement and say 1 + 1 = 2 then - 0.21.
Our culture is a bit more divided that it used to be, but it is still rather intact. 
Read earlier statements, I have already addressed all that needs to be said for my part. 
rbelivb
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@Creeperofmines
Them Mexicans need to stay in their broke ass country. We can’t be supporting no broke illegals and at the same time giving up jobs to people who grew up in America 
How can they be lazy and needing support if they're also taking away jobs?
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@rbelivb
Did you watch my Youtube channel?  I did 3 of these videos there:




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@Alec
Nice videos, I subscribed to your channel.
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@bmdrocks21
Within our borders, you cannot hire whoever you want. 
You said that government's responsibility is to its citizens, so how does it have the authority to tell them who they can or cannot hire?

American workers aren't a disease. There is no deaf/blind influence at all.
The dysfunction is that supply of labour theoretically outweighs the demand, so that you are attempting to prop up the price by placing artificial limits upon the supply. Artificial scarcity causes deadweight loss, which means that maximum productive efficiency (market equilibrium) is not achieved. The burden caused by deadweight loss can be measured on a utilitarian scale, which is where the analogy to blindness comes in. Economic mobility is tightened by the pressure placed on the production cycle.
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American Xenophobia.
It's funny given what they are.
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@TheRealNihilist
Historical revisionism is used by white supremacists to rewrite what occurred in Germany and state there is some sort of global conspiracy.


Well, don't use revisionist history. That is why I said to accept the good and the bad. Revisionism is usually used to ignore or downplay the bad, but it can also be used to downplay achievements. Both are bad. Just accept what actually happened.

You said and I quote "We are unified in our culture". How is America unified when everyone doesn't support gun freedom if I accept your findings?
Unified: brought together as one
As one doesn't leave anything up. It is like if I said 1 + 1 together equals 2 but then later retract my statement and say 1 + 1 = 2 then - 0.21.
Well, that was because I said we don't all have to agree on everything to be unified. While we don't all agree on how gun laws should be, most people generally think they should be more loose than other countries would. Guns are, to an extent, part of our culture. No major candidate from either political party wants to do away with guns, and I think that is telling, since a lot of countries in Europe have. We are unified in traditions such as Christmas, as I showed.

Are you saying that, to be unified, we must all agree on everything? I think any good democracy needs to have its disagreements.


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@rbelivb
You said that government's responsibility is to its citizens, so how does it have the authority to tell them who they can or cannot hire?

In what way is hiring anyone you want a responsibility owed to citizens? It is a law that protects other working Americans.

The dysfunction is that supply of labour theoretically outweighs the demand, so that you are attempting to prop up the price by placing artificial limits upon the supply. Artificial scarcity causes deadweight loss, which means that maximum productive efficiency (market equilibrium) is not achieved. The burden caused by deadweight loss can be measured on a utilitarian scale, which is where the analogy to blindness comes in. Economic mobility is tightened by the pressure placed on the production cycle.

Yeah, I have taken macro and microeconomic courses. I am aware that not doing everything to its most efficient amount causes deadweight loss. I am completely on board with low regulation and low taxes. However, at the point in which you suggest shipping the entire third-world into our country to destroy our wages, culture, and way of life, I begin to have a problem with your plan.
TheRealNihilist
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@bmdrocks21
Well, don't use revisionist history. That is why I said to accept the good and the bad. Revisionism is usually used to ignore or downplay the bad, but it can also be used to downplay achievements. Both are bad. Just accept what actually happened.
You said "Accepting this history" makes you an American. Is Nick Fuentes still an American if he deals with Historical Revisionism?
Well, that was because I said we don't all have to agree on everything to be unified.
Give me a specific simple example that Americans are unified on something.
The conditions would be:
- Has to include every single American
- Unified as in everyone agrees on something.
If this is not met there isn't a single thing that all Americans agree on.

If you are going to say Christmas. Think about it and if you want to add that in again then do it but know that I already have a counter to that.
Are you saying that, to be unified, we must all agree on everything? I think any good democracy needs to have its disagreements.
Unification is essentially 1 not 1 - 0.21 = 0.79. 0.79 is not a complete number as in everyone does not agree. The numbers should be self-explanatory given you didn't challenge them earlier. 

In order to be unified on anything Americans must have a single thing that they all unify under. I don't respect I would say an unintentional change of what I am asking. Please read what I said earlier. I specifically asked for 1 as in a thing not everything. Meaning "Are you saying that, to be unified, we must all agree on everything?" is an unfair characterization of what I am asking.
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@TheRealNihilist
You said "Accepting this history" makes you an American. Is Nick Fuentes still an American if he deals with Historical Revisionism?

I don't know what Nick Fuentes said. If he is knowingly lying and wrong, I'd say that is rather anti-American of him.

Give me a specific simple example that Americans are unified on something.
The conditions would be:
- Has to include every single American
- Unified as in everyone agrees on something.
If this is not met there isn't a single thing that all Americans agree on.

If you are going to say Christmas. Think about it and if you want to add that in again then do it but know that I already have a counter to that.
There is nothing that every single American agrees on. Some people think the earth is flat and vaccines give people autism and those are easily disproven. So, I cannot say a thing about culture that every citizens can agree about. You mentioned Christmas...90% of Americans celebrate it. It isn't uniquely American, but it is something that most of us agree to celebrate.

I didn't mean to mischaracterize and say we need to agree on everything. You mentioned things Americans disagree on, and it appeared you were saying that disagreements mean we aren't unified.
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@bmdrocks21
In a multicultural un-assimilated society, you will have cloisters of people disagreeing with the Constitution mostly because they have not lived in the country long enough to appreciate the constitution. They might enjoy unique freedoms as Americans but have no clue why they are allowed to have them.



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@bmdrocks21
I don't know what Nick Fuentes said. If he is knowingly lying and wrong, I'd say that is rather anti-American of him.
But isn't he still an American?
There is nothing that every single American agrees on.
So your statement that Americans are unified cannot be substantiated?
and it appeared you were saying that disagreements mean we aren't unified.
How can Americans be unified if you can't point to a single example of unification of any kind? 

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@TheRealNihilist
--> @Greyparrot  Countless cultures and civilizations were lost due to open/weak borders. Open borders only favors the stronger and more aggressive cultures.
--> @TheRealNihilist  What is so good about a culture or civilization if it can't survive against other more survivable cultures? 

The answer to that 14 hundred years ago would have probably been  'no good at all and its peoples only fit for servitude and slavery.'



It is a good question that sends us back to realms of  'survival of the fittest'. In the case of modern day humans   it would mean survival of the most technologically advanced nations as apposed to a nation and peoples who have been kept in the dark and held back by there leaders from all kinds of knowledge.  Such as those deemed to be Islamic countries.The Islamic terrorist groups name - Boko Haram - for instance is said to mean -  "Western education is a sin"  Although, I don't  believe that there are any countries now that are in the business of total annihilation with the exception of The Islamic state Iran. 


"Israel should be wiped off map, says Iran's president".

Iran's new president created a sense of outrage in the west yesterday by describing Israel as a "disgraceful blot" that should be "wiped off the face of the earth". Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who is more hardline than his predecessor, told students in Tehran that a new wave of Palestinian attacks would be enough to finish off Israelhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran


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@Stephen
If a culture can't survive then it is bad if we value survival. Simple. If almost every single culture has survivability checked then we can talk about other things we value. 
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@TheRealNihilist
How can Americans be unified if you can't point to a single example of unification of any kind? \
Their paranoia and xenophobia though not universal is approaching it.


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@disgusted
Sure that might reach it but then people will just move onto other subjects of disagreement and argue over that. I don't think there will be a time when there is nothing to argue about. 
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@TheRealNihilist
But isn't he still an American?


In terms of literal citizenship, yes. In a more philosophical sense, he could or could not be. I don't know if he is maliciously lying or if what he said was wrong at all.

So your statement that Americans are unified cannot be substantiated?t
Not by your definition, no. Like I said, there are even big disagreements among conservatives. There are disagreements among Jews and Christians. These are groups of millions. America has 317 million people, so it would be incredibly difficult to find something they all agree on. Not to mention, you would have to interview 317 million people to actually know if they are 'unified' which would be very difficult to do.

How can Americans be unified if you can't point to a single example of unification of any kind? 

How about after the 9/11 terrorists attacks. That was a time of national unity. But you'd say that because one jihadist in our country was happy about it, that means we weren't unified.

Name one thing an entire country consciously agrees.