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@TheRealNihilist
@Pinkfreud08
ok then
I think Warren's vicious smear of Bernie might be the final nail in her campaign.
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@Vader
Bernie is probably the least Orangemanbad candidate in the race.
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@Greyparrot
But Bernie can't win. He comes across like a grouchy old crackpot. That anyone can think he would make a good candidate against Trump is amazing.
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@ethang5
You have offended the Bernie Bro!
Seriously, you probably did.
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@SirAnonymous
I'm sorry. I really am. I think Bernie is sincere. But we need someone who will not wreck the economy.
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@ethang5
I agree. I'm not a Bernie Bro.
Bernie and Warren supporters were going to inevitably come to a clash sooner or later
Warren supporters think that she has the most well thought out policy proposals and can unite both the liberal and moderate wings of the party behind her.
Sanders supporters think that he is the true flag-bearer of the liberal wing of the party who had the balls to campaign against Hillary for the primary in 2016 while Warren didnt and ended up endorsing Hillary at the end anyways.
With Buttigieg sliding combined with Bloomberg and Steyer polling in the 5%'s, this is going to crack open the race for Biden who already has old people, black voters, and the southern states effectively on lockdown in his corner.
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@Imabench
Warren is superior to Bernie.
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@RationalMadman
Any response to the thread topic or nah?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I heard from news that Bernie raised a few million from supporters after this incident.
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@HistoryBuff
He is largely immune or at least resistant to alot of the attacks that trump has/would use.
This is irrelevant because only one needs to stick for it to be memed on. Basically saying well Bernie can't die from a heart attack and I am saying it only takes one life threatening occurrence for him to die.
Being a "socialist" is basically meaningless at this point because as far as the republicans are concerned everyone is a socialist. He isn't part of the establishment so he isn't part of the "swamp". He appeals to the same anger against the establishment that made trump win so he is actually much better positioned to win over voters who otherwise would stay home.
There is two ways this can go:
1) Trump doesn't even use that insult.
2) He does use it and Bernie will agree to it and literally lose majority of the right . Race over Trump wins.
2020 is going to be an election about turnout. You can't convert trump's base. You can only make sure you turn out more of your own base. The people who would turn out for biden are the same, if not less, people who turned up for hilary. We know that doesn't work. We need to appeal to people who want change.
People who voted for Trump wanted change. He won because of the swing states. Your statement makes no sense when all he has to do is win those swing states because they are not diehard Trump supporters because the states could've gone to Hillary or Trump.
hillary didn't lose because of conspiracy theories. Hilary lost because most of the country didn't really care about her. She wasn't going to change much or fix anything. She was going to continue the same neo-liberal policies that have been screwing over poor people for decades. She couldn't get people to turn up to vote.
Evidence? She lost because Trump was more appealing. Trump was more to blame on his victory than Hillary. Hillary could've done nothing wrong and still the right would've found something wrong about her. "neo-liberal policies" don't matter when people don't vote based on policies. What world are you living in?
He's not going to fix anything because he was integrally involved with breaking them. Sanders can get new voters and young people to turn up and vote, biden cant.
What does fixing got to do when they can lie about him unless of course Bernie the almighty transcends right wing lies? Do say that before I know how deluded you are.
but in a cycle where youth turnout has had record highs and some of the candidates are extremely popular among young people, this method under counts youth because based on previous cycles, the stats say they don't turn up to vote.
This is false. They have already adjusted for this. They realize voter turnout is on the increase between 18-29 year olds. Your own links shows them this data. All they got to do is to see that data.
Here is your link.
Just read it. If they were able to accurately poll Hillary V Trump they can do so now because if you haven't heard there was "record highs" in 2016 as well.
See answer above explaining weighting.
Still want an answer to this "nor are they going to vote for Bernie. "
You would also need to explain why the polls were right with Hillary V Trump even though that also showed a positive trend as in an increase among 18-29 years old voters unless of course that you haven't thought that through.Because neither candidate was more popular with young people
What are you even saying? I am saying even though there was "record highs" during the 2016 election the polls accurately predicted what would occur. Are you saying young people weren't a factor in the race if so why would Bernie win now when he didn't beat Hillary?
I did. Hilary was not particularly liked by young voters.
Evidence. I literally have data to say 55% of young people voted for Hillary over Trump which had 37% voting for him.
Another link.
Under this would have the data points about her appealing to young voters more than Trump.
"A few key data points that show this is a real, honest-to-goodness thing:"
lol you asked for proof that bernie has a history of doing better than his polling. I provided examples where he did better than his polling. now you want to move the goal posts.
Moving the goalposts when you are cherrypicking data? Okay. Lets not take into account there was 26% undecided in the Marrill Poll which only translated too only 0.3% only voting neither when it was finished.
Do you want me to cherrpick states that Bernie didn't do better than the polls or do you accept that you are cherrypicking?
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@TheRealNihilist
There is two ways this can go:1) Trump doesn't even use that insult.2) He does use it and Bernie will agree to it and literally lose majority of the right . Race over Trump wins.
In what way is this relevant? Trump has like a 90% approval rating on the right. None of the dems care ever going to get enough votes on the right to make a difference. The only way to win is to get the base on the left to actually show up and vote. If you pick an exciting candidate that people want to vote for, like sanders, that will happen. If you pick a shitty neo-liberal it wont and trump will win.
People who voted for Trump wanted change. He won because of the swing states. Your statement makes no sense when all he has to do is win those swing states because they are not diehard Trump supporters because the states could've gone to Hillary or Trump.
exactly, they want change. So why would picking a candidate that wants to go backwards appeal to them at all? Biden will lose the states because he was part of the government that made them want trump in the 1st place.
Evidence? She lost because Trump was more appealing. Trump was more to blame on his victory than Hillary. Hillary could've done nothing wrong and still the right would've found something wrong about her. "neo-liberal policies" don't matter when people don't vote based on policies. What world are you living in?
People vote on whether or not their lives got better. People vote on whether or not they will be dragged into a war. Neo-Liberalism is a massive failure for most of the country. Hillary was heavily involved in creating the system that fucked over much of the country. No one particularly cared about her so alot of people just stayed home which let trump win.
What does fixing got to do when they can lie about him unless of course Bernie the almighty transcends right wing lies? Do say that before I know how deluded you are.
again, the right are going to lie about anyone and everyone. They will do it to sanders, they would do it to Biden. So if everyone is going to be lied about, it is not a useful factor to take into account for picking a candidate.
This is false. They have already adjusted for this
please provide evidence that polling companies have adjusted for this. That link is for the US Census Bureau, not a polling company. I was using it to show you what weighting was since you seemed to be unaware.
If they were able to accurately poll Hillary V Trump they can do so now because if you haven't heard there was "record highs" in 2016 as well.
I explained this already. Higher than average youth turnout rate wouldn't throw off the poll if both candidates are equally appealing (or unappealing) to youth. So in a contest between a neo-liberal and nut job, neither one got higher support among youth. In a contest between Biden and Sander that is very, very different. Biden has virtually no support among younger voters, Sanders has massive support among younger voters.
What are you even saying? I am saying even though there was "record highs" during the 2016 election the polls accurately predicted what would occur. Are you saying young people weren't a factor in the race if so why would Bernie win now when he didn't beat Hillary?
Bernie beat his polling by several points in alot of states in the primary. This is because of under counted young and 1st time voters. It wasn't enough to make him win then, but the polls were definitely undercounting his support. In the 2016 general election youth turnout was not particularly high. As you can see in this graph the youth vote was up a bit from 2012, but significantly down from 2008.
Still want an answer to this "nor are they going to vote for Bernie. "
I don't understand. Are you looking for the polling that shows bernie has the large majority of support with younger voters?
What are you even saying? I am saying even though there was "record highs" during the 2016 election the polls accurately predicted what would occur.
There was record high turnout in 2018. Not in 2016. Hilary was a shitty candidate. Voter turnout was like a 20 year low.
Do you want me to cherrpick states that Bernie didn't do better than the polls or do you accept that you are cherrypicking?
lol so you put out polling that is completely useless, then attack me for daring to question polling. I show you polling that shows the exact phenomenon I am trying to explain to you and you attack me for using polls. do you not see how intellectually dishonest you are being?
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@Greyparrot
I heard from news that Bernie raised a few million from supporters after this incident.
Gained the sexist vote from that one!
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@bmdrocks21
Gained the sexist vote from that one!
Bernie has fought for women's right's for decades. We has fighting for women while warren was still a republican. I think most people see through the stupid, clumsy attempt at a smear.
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@HistoryBuff
Lol, it was a joke. Saying all of those millions came from new sexist voters.
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@HistoryBuff
In what way is this relevant? Trump has like a 90% approval rating on the right.
Did you know Trump literally won because of the swing states? All that democrats need to do is appeal to swing voters. Literally don't even know what occurred in 2016 even though I have used that as an example multiple time here. The "90% approval rating on the right" is irrelevant.
If you pick a shitty neo-liberal it wont and trump will win.
If you pick a shitty dem-soc who agrees with the label of socialist then the democrats have lost if he is the facing against Trump.
Biden will lose the states because he was part of the government that made them want trump in the 1st place.
Biden appeals to the swing states and that is how you win. Swing states won't accept self-identified socialist Bernie because of the labeling he uses. Biden is Obama's VP which is a lot easier to sell than Bernie. No one cares about policy so please stop bringing it up, they only care about how their side can win. Swing voters are literally the best bet not because they care about policy. If you persuade them that their interests are more close to the Democrats than Trump the Democrats win.
People vote on whether or not their lives got better.
Nope. I have countless examples of poor right wingers voting against their own interests by not voting Democrats for healthcare. Lol this is far from the truth. It is party over rationale.
People vote on whether or not they will be dragged into a war.
Evidence that people are going to drafted or they care about foreign policy.
Neo-Liberalism is a massive failure for most of the country. Hillary was heavily involved in creating the system that fucked over much of the country. No one particularly cared about her so alot of people just stayed home which let trump win.
Lol neo-liberalism has helped more than it has hindered but here you are literally ridiculing it. I would love to see the facts on the negatives outweighing the positives.
again, the right are going to lie about anyone and everyone. They will do it to sanders, they would do it to Biden. So if everyone is going to be lied about, it is not a useful factor to take into account for picking a candidate.
So Bernie the almighty doesn't transcend right-wing lies but you still think he will do good in the meme debates? Okay.
please provide evidence that polling companies have adjusted for this. That link is for the US Census Bureau, not a polling company. I was using it to show you what weighting was since you seemed to be unaware.
They had adjusted it in the 2016 polling which is why it was correct so don't expect me to provide evidence of something that is not even questionable they are wrong about.
Higher than average youth turnout rate
Your link shows an increase in 2016 but were the polls wrong? No.
Bernie beat his polling by several points in alot of states in the primary.
No he didn't. Those were swing states meaning they could've gone either way.
Are you looking for the polling that shows bernie has the large majority of support with younger voters?
Sure
There was record high turnout in 2018. Not in 2016. Hilary was a shitty candidate. Voter turnout was like a 20 year low.
2012 Voting turnout: 54.9%
2016 Voting turnout: 55.7%
20 year low??? Literally beat last years so it is not even right for the first 4 years.
2016 Voting turnout: 55.7%
20 year low??? Literally beat last years so it is not even right for the first 4 years.
lol so you put out polling that is completely useless, then attack me for daring to question polling.
You literally cherrypicked data do you want me to do so as well?
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@bmdrocks21
Bernie the incel vote. lolGained the sexist vote from that one!
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@TheRealNihilist
Did you know Trump literally won because of the swing states? All that democrats need to do is appeal to swing voters. Literally don't even know what occurred in 2016 even though I have used that as an example multiple time here.
what would make you think that a failed neo-liberal would appeal to swing voters? They didn't show up to vote for hilary. They wouldn't show up to vote for Biden either. Your argument is basically we need to do exactly what failed to work last time.
If you pick a shitty dem-soc who agrees with the label of socialist then the democrats have lost if he is the facing against Trump.
Trump won because people want change. Swing voters want change. Picking a candidate that was integrally involved in creating the system people want to fix is not a winning strategy.
Biden appeals to the swing states and that is how you win.
Why would you think that Biden appeal to swing voters? He just wants to return to the failed policies he has been pushing for decades. People want change. Biden wants to go backwards. He would get the same result hilary got. The left stays home and trump wins.
No one cares about policy so please stop bringing it up, they only care about how their side can win.
This might be the stupidest thing you've ever said. People care about who is going to make their lives better. That is policy. They might not have a detailed understanding of the various plans, but to say they don't care about policy is just dumb.
Swing voters are literally the best bet not because they care about policy. If you persuade them that their interests are more close to the Democrats than Trump the Democrats win.
If you campaign on going backwards and not fixing anything, then trump will win. Why would progressives show up to vote for someone when they aren't going to do anything positive. The democrats need to stop taking their base for granted. If you only worry about appealing to people who don't support you, then your own supporters won't show up. That is why the dems lost 1000 seats under obama.
Nope. I have countless examples of poor right wingers voting against their own interests by not voting Democrats for healthcare. Lol this is far from the truth. It is party over rationale.
That is still policy though. They don't support a specific policy. They are dumb to not support it, but they still care about it.
Evidence that people are going to drafted or they care about foreign policy.
One of trump's main campaign promises was getting out of the middle east. It was a big hit.
So Bernie the almighty doesn't transcend right-wing lies but you still think he will do good in the meme debates? Okay.
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say.
They had adjusted it in the 2016 polling which is why it was correct so don't expect me to provide evidence of something that is not even questionable they are wrong about.
please provide evidence they adjusted for it.
Your link shows an increase in 2016 but were the polls wrong? No.
my link shows a small increase, but still way down from 2008.
Bernie beat his polling by several points in alot of states in the primary.No he didn't. Those were swing states meaning they could've gone either way.
lol the polls said he had X support. He got more than X support (in some cases by alot) but you don't want them to count. this is just sad.
Are you looking for the polling that shows bernie has the large majority of support with younger voters?Sure
Here is one from california where Sanders has 45% and Biden has 12% support between 18-29. They vary by how much Sanders is crushing everyone else in this category, but I don't think I've seen any polls that have Sanders not winning in this age group.
20 year low??? Literally beat last years so it is not even right for the first 4 years.
my apologies, I did have a source that said that. But it would appear it was incorrect.
You literally cherrypicked data do you want me to do so as well?
As far as I can tell that is what you do all the time.
Fun side note. A poll of the popularity of senators just came out. The most popular senator in america is Bernie Sanders with a 65% approval rating and 29% disapproval. Warren was the 9th lowest rated with 50% approval and 40% disapproval.
She might have wanted to look at this kind of information before getting into a he-said she-said argument.
It also disproves the idea that warren (or in my opinion Biden) could unite the country. Warren's approval ratings are way lower.
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@TheRealNihilist
Hillary spent a large amount of campaign time in California to raise money. Trump never once went to California, so we have the predictable outcome of Hillary raising more money and winning Califonia by over 3 million votes. And losing the heartland.
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@HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
If she did do that it was a poor tactic. Elections are won by swing states.Hillary spent a large amount of campaign time in California to raise money. Trump never once went to California, so we have the predictable outcome of Hillary raising more money and winning Califonia by over 3 million votes. And losing the heartland.
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@TheRealNihilist
It's a matter of historical record, not an opinion.
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@Greyparrot
Is it historical record that she did bad or she spent a large amount of time in California?It's a matter of historical record, not an opinion.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You replied to my reply.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You replied to my reply.
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@Greyparrot
Makes sense to me. Something like this would really piss me off if I was a Bernie supporter. Pretty predictable outcome really.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Most of Bernie's supporters are still raging over the superdelegate bullshit of 2016.
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@Greyparrot
Well to be fair that shit pissed me off immensely despite not being a Bernie supporter. I think it should have pissed everyone off honestly, especially the blue ties.