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@Greyparrot
it's like anything else, the more demand the higher the price, imagine a fully tax funded college system, the cost increases would be UGE.
Should college be free
Posts
Total:
58
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Nah, the Dems would be forced to finally tax poor people at nordic rates, leading to much more public outrage over government fiscal incompetence.
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@n8nrgmi
We could do something like only giving grants for stem degrees. But what would be even better is creating a chart that show how beneficial each job is to society, and whether it's needed or not.
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@WaterPhoenix
what if we gave businesses tax incentives to pay off employ's student debts?
let's say a graduate is hired for a position for which has a large shortage, after the first year x% of their debt is paid on their behalf, after 5 years x% + is paid on their behalf etc.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Huge loophole there, with this procedure in place students could just go as far into debt as they want cause they know the businesses will pay them off if they get hired.
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@WaterPhoenix
I'm not saying the employer must or has to pay it, but could be encouraged or be benefited by doing so.
there are loop holes in everything government, but setting that aside it could be structured to minimize abuse/misuse. For example when healthcare organizations hire doctors, some doctors will negotiate their contracts so employer pays their student loans for them which then lowers their taxable pay. Point being there are already things being done, more could be done without government controlling it directly, disguised by the wrong and misleading term "free"
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
What incentive? The obvious answer would be money but that's a bit stupid.
Education shouldn't be a profit and when they take minorities because they make extra profit, it is a sign that the schools treat students unfairly. I am for making education free with certain requirements in order to receive this. Ofc, masters degrees are paid
Education is too nationalized and personally, a state should be in charge of education
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@Alec
The idea that some product or service should be free, or subsidised, if it involves an allocation of scarce resources, indicates a market failure or monopoly intervention. Price is not merely some economic friction that ought to be reduced as much as possible. The function of price is to allocate labour to where it can be best utilised. In education this is important above all, since it involves such a wide gap between investment of resources and payoff. If education is subsidised by some monopoly firm or political group, then the skills fostered in that labour pool will be dictated by the biases of that class instead of reflecting actual market dynamics.
In short, it is positively important that education costs money, and that this price is determined by the market, because this is what directs choices about what to study.
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@Vader
Education shouldn't be a profit and when they take minorities because they make extra profit, it is a sign that the schools treat students unfairly. I am for making education free with certain requirements in order to receive this. Ofc, masters degrees are paid
Sounds like you are imposing a cost on people and burdening the productive capacity of the economy in the name of a totally arbitrary concept of education and fairness. Why should people be educated for a position to which they are not optimally suited?
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@WaterPhoenix
the incentive for employers to pay for the employees student debt
The obvious answer would be money but that's a bit stupid.
ok so your position is what then? we make slaves teach college in fields with no utilities, supplies etc? how can you possibly do it without money? that's a bit stupid.
if you are going to fund it with taxes you either take the taxes from individuals or businesses, which one would you like?
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@bmdrocks21
You need to pay for my gender studies degree, you fascist!
It's not your degree, it's everyone's degree. People don't get to own things.
Also you presume gender can be studied... The horror, the horror!
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@Barney
Your arguments are a social construct. Begone, capitalist pig!
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@bmdrocks21
You assume my species, and further engage in micro aggression against pigs!
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Ok, let me get your proposal straight. People go to college then find a job that pays off all their debt, and the job pays off all their debt by using money from the government, which comes from taxpayers? That's stupid.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Why is the incentive money that's so stupid. Businesses get money to give money.
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@WaterPhoenix
Ok, let me get your proposal straight. People go to college then find a job that pays off all their debt, and the job pays off all their debt by using money from the government, which comes from taxpayers? That's stupid.
are you purposefully being dense?
the company doesn't get money from the government, where did I say that? where in the world you got that assumption I just can't fathom.
I'll try to make it as plain as I possibly can.
Businesses pay taxes, with me so far? Ok, so, if the business is willing to pay off the student debt under certain constraints etc, they could pay a bit less in taxes (less does not mean no taxes, just so you know)
still with me?
The business attracts top level employees, which they badly need, employee (former student in debt) as part of they compensation package their new employer will pay their student debt based on some formula AND the business also benefits by paying reduced taxes by a % and based on some formula.
Business gets top level employee for difficult to fill position and some tax benefit
employee gets a job and student debt assistance
NONE of this has to be an all or nothing thing ALL of this can be adjusted as a % or whatever.
understand now?
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@rbelivb
There is a certain threshold one would have to cross in order to be involved in free education
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I like how you make it seem like I'm an idiot when you haven't mentioned taxes once this whole time. This is still a bit stupid though. They give money to students so they can give less money to the gov?
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@WaterPhoenix
I like how you make it seem like I'm an idiot when you haven't mentioned taxes once this whole time. This is still a bit stupid though. They give money to students so they can give less money to the gov?
ah you are trolling me haha you got me bravo
read post #13, 31, 34, and the rest of my posts, all talk about taxes
I'm sorry you aren't grasping this topic of "free college" I've addressed it to Alec, perhaps read all the posts from the beginning it really seems you are missing major points in this discussion.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
ok
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@Alec
$516 billion per year./327200000 taxpayers___________________$1579 per taxpayer.
Ignoring the obvious flaws such as the fact that the United States has WAY LESS than 327 million taxpayers and the fact that $1600 a year is a lot of money, I have a more basic question for you:
When people point out to you that regressive headcount taxes such as the ones you constantly propose are ridiculously outdated and harmful do you ignore that because you don't listen to criticism or because the criticism just goes straight over your head? There might be some other possibility but I can't think of any.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Ignoring the obvious flaws such as the fact that the United States has WAY LESS than 327 million taxpayers
I miscalculated. My fault.
When people point out to you that regressive headcount taxes such as the ones you constantly propose are ridiculously outdated and harmful do you ignore that because you don't listen to criticism or because the criticism just goes straight over your head? There might be some other possibility but I can't think of any.
If your referring to the fact that I tend to not respond after like a dozen posts, it's because I don't think I can respond to every post. I'm more likely to respond to the ones that signal me. The rest I assume are posts for other people to respond to.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Also, in this thread, when I was defending free college, it was me playing Devil's advocate.
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@Alec
If your referring to the fact that I tend to not respond after like a dozen posts,
No. I am referring to the fact that you have never to my knowledge responded to people pointing out that the regressive headcount taxes you constantly propose are ridiculously outdated and harmful.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Tax policy is a different issue. Cross thread contamination is against the CoC.
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@Alec
Alec in post 8: We could charge each taxpayer a regressive headcount tax of $1579 each per year.
Alec in post 57: Talking about taxes in this thread is against the CoC.
DD in post 58: Uh-huh... but you are still avoiding my question about how you justify regressive headcount taxation.