What favor did President Trump request of Ukraine President Zekensky?

Author: fauxlaw

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Greyparrot
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@fauxlaw
It's fascinating to see the extents the rabid left mob cherishes the narratives of profit-driven media while at the same time holding the belief that rich people, in general, are evil.

The mental disconnect is so amazing that you have to commend the staggering power of the corporate media to so effectively numb the mind of useful idiots in America who probably have read fewer books in their life than they have fingers. The smart always find a way to profit off of the weak, and the weak are absolutely the young idiots full of college debt and zero tools for personal agency or critical thinking. The fools and their money will always find a way to part.
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@fauxlaw
If you were to ask people on the left if the media cares about the people more than the media cares about their paycheck, most would overwhelmingly insist the MSM "journalists" care about people and are not spinning a narrative for the sake of money.

It's an absolutely hilarious failure of critical thinking and logical reasoning.
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@dustryder
...while there appears to have been sufficient evidence for crime,
Can you name a crime of Trump discovered by Meuller?

the crime itself was not determined to meet the bar for impeachment
Yet the democratic partisan hacks impeached.

To be clear, if about half of the senate... 
The democratic "half".

were willing to have Trump removed,...
And yet he was not removed and the single party case from the house was dismissed. Reality matters Clem.

I'm quite sure at the very least that half of the senate agree that Trump should've been impeached.
So in the vote to confirm or dismiss the impeachment, did half of the Senate vote for impeachment? Your claims don't even give a passing glance to reality.

No wordplay here. The discussion was on whether Trump had done something wrong. You're the one trying to expand the argument.
No sir. I said that the majority of American people did not agree Trump should be impeached. You tried to change "impeached" into "did something wrong". And as yet, just like Meuller, you cannot show us anything Trump did wrong other than your biased opinion.

Well the reality is that Trump did something wrong. Hence the impeachment.
Then why did the founding fathers require the Senate to decide on it? The Senate found that the "impeachment" was a single party coup attempt. Trump was found to have done nothing wrong, and the impeachment was dismissed.

You mean the duly elected house?
No, Democrats are not the house. They are only a single party in the house.

No crimes of Trump.

He did find crimes of Trump.
He did not. And the reality is, you cannot cite a single crime of Trump discovered by Meuller. Reality matters Chet.

The senate members that voted to acquit represent > 50 of the countries people.
I said that a majority of Americans did not think Trump should have been impeached. This is true. Your semantic dancing now will not save you. 

Hence they do not represent the majority.
I said nothing about them representing the majority. I said they were more representative than a single party. The majority of the Senate voted to dismiss. They represented the majority of Americans who also did not agree with impeachment, republicans, democrats, and independents.

Inferences implicitly use evidence. So evidence is used. 
Inferences should use evidence. But you have no evidence other than your bias. So you think you can substitute your bias for evidence.

Since your denial of inference is a denial of evidence,
I did not deny inference. I said inference alone cannot be used to convict anyone.

your standard of evidence excludes evidence and requires a standard nothing short of sworn confession.
Nice try Chet. But as you yourself said, inference should be made from evidence, and I have demonstrated that you have no evidence. You pretend you bias is "evidence". It is not.

This is proven by reality in that Trump remains unconvicted of any crime. The standard you are trying to apply to Trump is the one used in countries like Iran and Congo, not the one stipulated by the US constitution.

The inferences are based upon the thumbprints.
Sorry, Mueller looked, the Senate looked, the Supreme Court looked, and the electorate looked. No thumbprints were found. Your inferences are based on your bias.

And America and in every other first world nation.
You only wish that America was a socialist nation, it is not. No one in America is convicted on inference alone. We have laws that prohibit that. And that is why Trump remains unconvicted.

Personally I'd just call them the uninformed.
The US Senate is uninformed? The constitution calls "them" citizens, and luckily, they are not judged by your biased standard. They have not been informed by your bias, I concede that.

And reality agrees with me, that's why Meuller found no crimes of Trump. And the Senate quashed the fake single party impeachment, and why Trump will be reelected in November.

Only in your delusions
"In my delusion" the Senate quashed the fake single party impeachment? And "in my delusion" Meuller found no crimes of Trump? Lol. OK Einstein.

Ethang5's assertion that very few of the senate agree with me is patently false when slightly less than half were willing to vote to remove.
Untrue. I said that the Senate disagrees with you. The proof is that they dismissed the impeachment. Trying to use the fakery of individual senators is deceptive.

"Slightly less than half" must be your euphemism for "democrats". A single party witch hunt is not democratic, and it is not as representative as a Senate that had acquit votes from both parties.

An exoneration is not predicated on an indictment.
I didn't say it was. Under our law, unindicted people are considered innocent, and innocent people need no exoneration. Your fascism, along with Bernie's socialism, has been rejected by the American people. 

And in November, we will have a rerun of the delusion that gripped you SJW  snowflakes in 2016. But considering your immunity to reality, you'll probably deny that a majority of Americans voted for Trump.

But the reality will remain that Trump is President. Do you know why? Reality matters Clem.
ethang5
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@Greyparrot
It's an absolutely hilarious failure of critical thinking and logical reasoning.
Which seem to be the permanent state of liberals.
fauxlaw
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@Greyparrot
It's the same kind of question one may ask regarding art: What is it? Decent, understanding people will call it the highest expression man can give. Skeptics call it anything man can get away with. It is both sacred and profane.
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@fauxlaw
Perhaps you are right. The level of personal apathy toward bettering one's self has no limits, like Art.

"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

And the greatest trick the left's leaders pulled with the MSM is that they don't exist as aloof wealthy elites.
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@ethang5
Would it surprise you to know MSM "Journalists" get paid $20,000+  a day to perform in front of a camera?

Those elites definitely care about the common man more than money, so you know you can trust any narrative they spin is for your own good.
dustryder
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@ethang5
Can you name a crime of Trump discovered by Meuller?
Obstruction of justice

Yet the democratic partisan hacks impeached.
You're confusing Mueller's investigation with the Zelensky case.

And yet he was not removed and the single party case from the house was dismissed. Reality matters Clem.
Non-sequitur. We were discussing if "Very few of them" believed he should've been impeached

So in the vote to confirm or dismiss the impeachment, did half of the Senate vote for impeachment? Your claims don't even give a passing glance to reality.
No. The slightly less than half did, which is more than "very few of them"

No sir. I said that the majority of American people did not agree Trump should be impeached. You tried to change "impeached" into "did something wrong". And as yet, just like Meuller, you cannot show us anything Trump did wrong other than your biased opinion.
The topic revolves around about whether Trump did anything wrong in terms of Zelensky and public perception of such. Not whether the American people agree that Trump should've been impeached. I mean.. you're wrong in either case. You're just more wrong when you're framing it in terms of impeachment because you've completely missed the entire topic.

Then why did the founding fathers require the Senate to decide on it? The Senate found that the "impeachment" was a single party coup attempt. Trump was found to have done nothing wrong, and the impeachment was dismissed.
1. A vote for acquittal does not mean "done nothing wrong". It means what was done was not found to reach the bar for removal. And this should be obvious given that Clinton clearly committed perjury and yet was also not removed
2. You're entitled to your interpretation of the intent of the senate, but note that it but one interpretation and poorly supported at that.

No, Democrats are not the house. They are only a single party in the house.
Sorry clem. The reality is that the democrats do not decide impeachment, the house does.

I said that a majority of Americans did not think Trump should have been impeached. This is true. Your semantic dancing now will not save you. 
Actually false

I said nothing about them representing the majority. I said they were more representative than a single party. The majority of the Senate voted to dismiss. They represented the majority of Americans who also did not agree with impeachment, republicans, democrats, and independents.
You've just contradicted yourself. The majority of the senate that voted to dismiss represents a minority of americans.

Inferences should use evidence. But you have no evidence other than your bias. So you think you can substitute your bias for evidence.
I'm sorry, but your interpretation of my inferences is wrong. I should know, because they are my inferences.

I did not deny inference. I said inference alone cannot be used to convict anyone.
Well which is it? Do inferences use evidence or do they not use evidence? If they do use evidence, why can't they be used to convict anyone?

Nice try Chet. But as you yourself said, inference should be made from evidence, and I have demonstrated that you have no evidence. You pretend you bias is "evidence". It is not.
I mean.. if by demonstrated you mean asserted without proof. Sorry bud, this is Dart, not a republican town hall meeting.

This is proven by reality in that Trump remains unconvicted of any crime. The standard you are trying to apply to Trump is the one used in countries like Iran and Congo, not the one stipulated by the US constitution.
So one more time, repeat it with me now: A president cannot be convicted of any crime. The fact that he has no been convicted of a crime does not mean a crime has not been committed by him.

Sorry, Mueller looked, the Senate looked, the Supreme Court looked, and the electorate looked. No thumbprints were found. Your inferences are based on your bias.
Well many thumbprints have been found. Again, your biases are getting in the way.

You only wish that America was a socialist nation, it is not. No one in America is convicted on inference alone. We have laws that prohibit that. And that is why Trump remains unconvicted.
Plenty of people in America are convicted on inference alone. I'm sorry you're blind the state of your country.

The US Senate is uninformed? The constitution calls "them" citizens, and luckily, they are not judged by your biased standard. They have not been informed by your bias, I concede that.
No. I think they are just dishonest. The citizens are uninformed however

"In my delusion" the Senate quashed the fake single party impeachment? And "in my delusion" Meuller found no crimes of Trump? Lol. OK Einstein.
Well you are delusional since Mueller did find crimes of Trump. I do believe denial of reality counts as a delusion.

Untrue. I said that the Senate disagrees with you. The proof is that they dismissed the impeachment. Trying to use the fakery of individual senators is deceptive.
You've explicitly said that very few of the senate believed Trump should've been impeached which is what I addressed. This is incorrect. As is most of what you've said

I didn't say it was. Under our law, unindicted people are considered innocent, and innocent people need no exoneration. Your fascism, along with Bernie's socialism, has been rejected by the American people. 
Please look up the definition of exoneration. It might surprise that it's not only used in the context of indictments.
ethang5
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@dustryder
Can you name a crime of Trump discovered by Meuller?

Obstruction of justice
Now quote the report saying so.

You're confusing Mueller's investigation with the Zelensky case.
No sir. Its all the same case with you rabid democrats anyway.

We were discussing if "Very few of them" believed he should've been impeached
"Them" referred to the American people. Now the democrats know that too.

No. The slightly less than half did, which is more than "very few of them"
All the democrats. Your single party coup failed.

The topic revolves around about whether Trump did anything wrong in terms of Zelensky and public perception of such. Not whether the American people agree that Trump should've been impeached.
You have shown nothing other than your bias that Trump did  wrong, and Trumps approval ratings increased after the sham impeachment. Sorry, reality matters.

1. A vote for acquittal does not mean "done nothing wrong".
OK Adolph, but in democracies, trials are to determine innocent or guilt, and unless the defendant is found guilty, the law considers him innocent, since that is what he was before the trial.

..this should be obvious given that Clinton clearly committed perjury and yet was also not removed
Clinton confessed. The evidence was there. The dems played politics. In Trumps case, you had no evidence, just a sham.

You're entitled to your interpretation of the intent of the senate, but note that it but one interpretation and poorly supported at that.
I have reality and law. Reality supports me.

I said that a majority of Americans did not think Trump should have been impeached. This is true. Your semantic dancing now will not save you. 

Actually false
After you've danced yourself out, you'll see that it's true.

The majority of the senate that voted to dismiss represents a minority of americans.
Going by how senators are apportioned, it is impossible for a majority of Senators to represent a minority of Americans. You need a civics class.

And the fact you're trying to dodge is still there. The Senate voted to dismiss the sham impeachment, and most of America agreed with that judgement.
 
I'm sorry, but your interpretation of my inferences is wrong. I should know, because they are my inferences.
You inferences alone cannot be used to convict anyone Clem. You lack evidence. And without evidence, your inferences are just subjective nonsense.

Do inferences use evidence or do they not use evidence?
Your inferences don't because you have no evidence. That is why both the Meuller investigation and the impeachment trial came to the same conclusion. No evidence, so no charges against Trump. Its called reality, Chet.

If they do use evidence, why can't they be used to convict anyone?
If. Your bias is not evidence. Get some real evidence. Something not dependant on your subjective and biased opinion, and Trump will be convicted. Until then, reality will always disappoint you.

Well many thumbprints have been found. Again, your biases are getting in the way.
Not in the way of reality apparently. Maybe Trump will one day be found guilty based just on your TDS. Keep hope alive!

Plenty of people in America are convicted on inference alone.
And when the courts are alerted to such unconstitutionality, they reverse those  convictions.

I'm sorry you're blind the state of your country.
Lol. The state of my country will be fine as long as people like you, who want to convict on accusations and inference alone, never rise to power.

No. I think they are just dishonest.
Right, democrats are honest. Lol.

The citizens are uninformed however
And they will remain uninformed of your loony irrationality with Trump. One drumming of democratic elites was not enough. November has another lesson coming for you.

Well you are delusional since Mueller did find crimes of Trump.
Can you cite those crimes in the report? See, your bias isn't in the report so....

You've explicitly said that very few of the senate believed Trump should've been impeached which is what I addressed. 
You addressed your strawman, not what I said. I said that the Senate disagrees with you. The proof is that they dismissed the impeachment. 

I do believe denial of reality counts as a delusion.
Right, there is tons of evidence but the senate is dishonest, and the supreme court is packed with conservatives, and Mueller was hamstrung, and the American people are dumb.

Do you know what it means when no one but you and Adam Shiff can see your "reality"?

It might surprise that it's not only used in the context of indictments.
OK Clem. Pay attention now. Have you been exonerated?

Feel free to continue dancing.
dustryder
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@ethang5
Now quote the report saying so.
Stop being lazy.

No sir. Its all the same case with you rabid democrats anyway.
Blatant lie. And then goalpost shifting.

"Them" referred to the American people. Now the democrats know that too.
Blatant lie. Or you've confused your own words.

All the democrats. Your single party coup failed.
Deflection.

You have shown nothing other than your bias that Trump did  wrong, and Trumps approval ratings increased after the sham impeachment. Sorry, reality matters.
Deflection.

OK Adolph, but in democracies, trials are to determine innocent or guilt, and unless the defendant is found guilty, the law considers him innocent, since that is what he was before the trial.
Impeachment isn't a criminal trial. Your quibbles are pointless.

Clinton confessed. The evidence was there. The dems played politics. In Trumps case, you had no evidence, just a sham.
And Clinton was acquitted despite the confession. QED Being acquitted does not mean you did nothing wrong

I have reality and law. Reality supports me.
Vacuous statement

I said that a majority of Americans did not think Trump should have been impeached. This is true. Your semantic dancing now will not save you. 
A simple google reveals this to be false. Willful ignorance and denial of reality.

After you've danced yourself out, you'll see that it's true.
Vacuous negation

Going by how senators are apportioned, it is impossible for a majority of Senators to represent a minority of Americans. You need a civics class.
A simple google reveals this to be false. Willful ignorance.

And the fact you're trying to dodge is still there. The Senate voted to dismiss the sham impeachment, and most of America agreed with that judgement.
Vacuous statement and accusation.

You inferences alone cannot be used to convict anyone Clem. You lack evidence. And without evidence, your inferences are just subjective nonsense.
Vacuous statement

Your inferences don't because you have no evidence. That is why both the Meuller investigation and the impeachment trial came to the same conclusion. No evidence, so no charges against Trump. Its called reality Chet.
Repetition of little consequence. False conclusion. Repeated misunderstanding.

If. Your bias is not evidence. Get some real evidence. Something not dependant on your subjective and biased opinion, and Trump will be convicted. Until then, reality will always disappoint you.
Repetition of little consequence

Not in the way of reality apparently. Maybe Trump will one day be found guilty based just on your TDS. Keep hope alive!
Vacuous statement

And when the courts are alerted to such unconstitutionality, they reverse the convictions.
Willful ignorance and denial of reality.

Lol. The state of my country will be fine as long as people like you, who want to convict on accusations and inference alone, never rise to power.
Repeated misunderstanding.

Right, democrats are honest. Lol.
Deflection.

And they will remain uninformed of your loony irrationality with Trump. One drumming of democratic elites was not enough. November has another lesson coming for you.
Vacuous statement

You address your strawman, not what I said. I said that the Senate disagrees with you. The proof is that they dismissed the impeachment. 
Blatant lie and/or confused own argument progression

Right, there is tons of evidence but the senate is dishonest, and the supreme court is packed with conservatives, and Mueller was hamstrung, and the American people are dumb.
Ironically, closer to the truth in satire than ever was in seriousness.

Do you know what it means when no one but you and Adam Shiff can see your "reality"?
Dishonest representation

OK Clem. Pay attention now. Have you been exonerated?
To what accusation? By who?
ethang5
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@dustryder
Now quote the report saying so.

Stop being lazy.
Stop being dishonest. Do you think we spent months and millions of dollars to find a crime, found crimes, and then simply did nothing? Talk about delusion!

Blatant lie. Or you've confused your own words.
It should be easy for you to cite this "lie" of mine that only you and Adam Shiff can see.

OK Adolph, but in democracies, trials are to determine innocent or guilt, and unless the defendant is found guilty, the law considers him innocent, since that is what he was before the trial.

Impeachment isn't a criminal trial. 
But it is a trial, and he was innocent before the trial.

You lack evidence. And without evidence, your inferences are just subjective nonsense.

Vacuous statement
What is vacuous is your claim to have evidence. For 2 years Adam Shiff and others claimed to have evidence too. But just like you, when asked to produce that evidence, you offer only your irrational bias. Both you and Adam have been proven vacuous.

One drumming of democratic elites was not enough. November has another lesson coming for you.

Vacuous statement
This November, with the reality of President staring you in the face, you will again dance the dance of the obtuse.

I said that the Senate disagrees with you. The proof is that they dismissed the impeachment. 

Blatant lie and/or confused own argument progression
Unlike you, I can cite where I said so.

Right, there is tons of evidence ¹but the senate is dishonest, and ²the supreme court is packed with conservatives, and ³Mueller was hamstrung, and the ⁴American people are dumb.

Ironically, closer to the truth in satire than ever was in seriousness.
100% truth. Each of the 4 is a lame excuse you use to deny the reality facing you.

1. The Democrats in the Senate ARE dishonest, as are the dems in the house.
2. The Supreme Court is packed with people who dwarf you in intelligence and integrity.
3. Mueller was not hamstrung in any way, and his report was published.
4. If the American people were dumb, the "reality" you claim would actually be.... well, reality. It isn't.

OK Clem. Pay attention now. Have you been exonerated?

To what accusation? By who?
Doesn't matter. If you haven't been exonerated, then by your logic, you're guilty. Accusations alone convict right?

And by how you're dodging a simple yes or no question, I infer that you're guilty. My inference was based on the "evidence" of you dodging the question.

Ya know, fascism sure makes finding people guilty easy!

31 days later

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@ethang5
CNN: "Trump took TWO SCOOPS of ice cream"

Nazipolosi: "Hold my fridge"