For Stephen - Prophecy is Reasonable and Logical to Believe

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09.28.2018 03:09AM

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@disgusted

I never said that. I said that those who are not regenerated (born again) have a nature that is hostile to God. They will not submit to who He is, to what He says. Instead, they rebel and live their own way. Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world.

#92

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09.28.2018 03:54AM

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@PGA2.0

Not true. Truth is exclusive. 2+2=4 is exclusive. It does not equal 5, 7, 89, 203.

When Jesus said:

John 14:6
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'

That is exclusive and it is either true or it is false. It can't logically both be true at the same time and in the same manner false.

That's called a creed, every religion and every spiritual path has creeds, that's what makes them special and that is what helps keep the soul focused and true to its teachings but all spiritual sources serve the same purpose for the soul and all have creeds to follow. The passage above is also true because that collective society does in fact exist beyond this physical world so it's true for those who desire to follow it and wish to exist within that spiritual collective society. The same principle is true concerning the creeds and practices of other religious paths and their creed to follow within their collective society. That is where they wish to sojourn when they leave the physical body.

You would be surprised what actually exists in the eternal God-worlds, and it's not just two places or nothing lol, not even close so you should stretch your horizons a bit and understand the creative nature of the soul and the Divine. It's not a limited one-dimensional reality.

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

This is true, in terms of being "saved". If it's your desire as a soul to be saved from whatever it is you want to be saved from.

Again, this is an exclusive statement. If it is true then your claims are false.

That's not true, only if that is the only thing that exists and it is obvious that it is not. The teachings of Jesus are principle oriented and spiritual laws and principles are universal among all of God's creations, but they are many and they are various and that is something fundamentalists will have to get used to. If the soul (which comes out of the heart of God) wishes for other things and other experiences within the created realms God doesn't condemn them to some dirty torture pit unless their actions dictate that.

Also, as you say Man-made religions are just that. They are all work based (what you do to be right with God). Christianity is different. It is what God does for you that you don't deserve, yet because of His mercy and grace, He supplies a means for a relationship with Him through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

No Christianity is not different in terms of our actions and what we do as we reap what we sow, there are countless verses which apply to our conduct and the consequences of our actions so don't give me that baloney. Only in terms of whether a soul desires to be saved and exist within that collective society. Not all spiritual paths have a "savior" or redemption...some have the same underlying principles that achieve the same things for the soul.....which is for the soul to progress spiritually.

#93

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09.28.2018 04:43AM

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@Outplayz

If this is the same as OBE's or astral projection, yes. I have never done it consciously without the help of a hallucinogen, but with one, Salvia, i have had 5 experiences... all the same which is rare for this drug, bc i always go to the same place. The thing with this one is that it also makes me believe i have died so it is scary as hell and i haven't done it again. Weed has also given me a slight one once but not all the way.

Astral projection is a form of soul travel but not exactly the same. The astral body is only the first layer over the soul as it leaves the physical body and can travel within that astral plane just like the physical realm. So astral projection is learning to switch your attention to the vibratory rate of that realm and the astral body.

However soul travel is the ability to project the SOUL anywhere within any of the multiverses or God-worlds and there are five worlds or realms that correlate with the five layers that cover the soul, these are astral, causal, mental and etheric planes so the soul has potential to experience five different universes within the worlds of duality.

It get's even better because the worlds above duality are the pure conscious worlds, these are the realms above the forces of positive and negative where they split off. Each realm above the physical is less and less restricted and even more creative as the soul transcends in its journey and upward into the higher experiences.

So the astral body is actually not the soul and not the souls only experience. The soul is the one observing through ALL those layers and worlds potentially not only the astral, it depends on the soul and what they are ready for. This is all something that can be achieved without drugs, but it takes practice as well.

The natural ones i have done are all with lucid dreams. I've had a dozen or so when i was trying. It's really hard to do... and messes with my sleep so i haven't done it for awhile. But i remember the most intense one i literally stood up out of my body, looked at myself sleeping and thought... "i can do anything right now" ... that thought was so exciting it woke me up lol. It was super vivid and i think i even remember feeling my hands... which was part of what gave me an adrenaline rush that woke me up.

Yeah really you only want to play with lucid dreaming to acquire information you may want that you can't reach normally. It is conscious activity though and so it too can be controlled and or learned from on another level. Many souls are unaware that forms of communication can come through dreams...for those that don't like to ever listen inwardly lol.

I really want to do a natural one but i haven't been able to. I can only do it in sleep or drugs, but have never done it when i was semi-conscious. I've tried but haven't got it. I haven't tried many times though so maybe if i try it consecutively i might get it. If you know any techniques let me know, i'm open to try it. I've heard you can have astral sex... i wanna, lol.

You can try simple exercises but it takes discipline and effort/time and practice. Like working out, it takes time to build up and it takes awhile to pull away from thought, emotions and the mind......distractions ect ect. You can start with the astral body and work even deeper to the other subtle bodies and even all the way back to the soul. But it is important to first learn to quiet the mind and pull your attention away from it by not following thoughts and get confident in that area where it's not a struggle. Concentrate on the observer and picture or focus your attention just above or behind you, as if you were looking at yourself. It can be real subtle at first but again, this takes practice like anything else to keep yourself away from the body. Basically you want to direct your attention to another area in the room you're in without moving the body, you can start by using your intuition to move around with only thought, feeling your away around by your memory but you want to train your awareness to move there where you want it and before you know it, your outside the body. It's similar to moving by thought, only it's your conscious awareness not just thought alone.

#94

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09.28.2018 05:03AM

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@PGA2.0

Cite where you said that.

#95

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09.28.2018 05:06AM

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@PGA2.0

Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world.

Is committed by godists.

#96

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09.28.2018 04:52PM

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@PGA2.0

When Jesus said:

How do you know i am not interpreting it correctly? That all Jesus meant was to believe in his story? That is what "through me" sounds like to me. To live life with his story as an example. So... how am i wrong about that? It also makes more sense since it isn't a tribal or narcissistic interpretation to believe that way.

Um... you didn't answer any of my concerns that make me of the belief the Bible as a whole and/or religion is wrong. This is called conceding and gives me no reason to believe anything you say. I told you i have evidence to the contrary... you have done nothing to challenge that.

#97

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09.28.2018 04:56PM

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@EtrnlVw

Astral projection is a form of soul travel but not exactly the same.

O, okay i see. I will give it a try. I heard a method that sounds like it would do what you're saying. It was to lay down and imagine an invisible rope in front of you. Then to with your minds eye see yourself pulling your soul out of your body from the rope. To grab and keep pulling until your soul is out. I think i can try that one. I think if i want to have one of these experiences the best way for me is with drugs. I don't find drugs to be a cheat... it's just another tool. So i'm not against the idea... but, the thing with drugs is that you can have any variety of experiences... and these spiritual experience are even rare with them... i don't do them bc i am afraid of a bad trip.

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#98

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09.28.2018 05:34PM

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@EtrnlVw

Not true. Truth is exclusive. 2+2=4 is exclusive. It does not equal 5, 7, 89, 203.

When Jesus said:

John 14:6
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'

That is exclusive and it is either true or it is false. It can't logically both be true at the same time and in the same manner false.

That's called a creed, every religion and every spiritual path has creeds, that's what makes them special and that is what helps keep the soul focused and true to its teachings but all spiritual sources serve the same purpose for the soul and all have creeds to follow. The passage above is also true because that collective society does in fact exist beyond this physical world so it's true for those who desire to follow it and wish to exist within that spiritual collective society. The same principle is true concerning the creeds and practices of other religious paths and their creed to follow within their collective society. That is where they wish to sojourn when they leave the physical body.
You would be surprised what actually exists in the eternal God-worlds, and it's not just two places or nothing lol, not even close so you should stretch your horizons a bit and understand the creative nature of the soul and the Divine. It's not a limited one-dimensional reality.
- ETRNLVW

You can call it a creed but it is a saying of Jesus. The purpose is to convey an eternal truth that there is ONLY ONE WAY to God. Thus, it is EXCLUSIVE. The reason for one way is because we as human beings are imperfect. We have sinned against our holy and pure Maker. Thus, there is a penalty for our wrongful actions. That penalty is separation from a close and intimate relationship with Him, for how can our pure and holy God accept willfully rebelious persons into His presence and remain just? Jesus provides a way to reestablish that relationship and be in right standing before God AND IT IS NOT BY WHAT WE DO, but what He has done. Thus, there is no bragging or boasting about our righteousness in saving ourselves from God's wrath and judgment. The whole credit goes to Jesus

Chist

and His work done on our behalf.

Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”

That is true, in terms of being "saved". If it's your desire as a soul to be saved from whatever it is you want to be saved from.
- ETRNLVW

The Bible teaches that if you are not saved, and changed, your actions will separate you from the fellowship and relationship with God. That is the "whatever."

Again, this is an exclusive statement. If it is true then your claims are false.

That's not true, only if that is the only thing that exists and it is obvious that it is not. The teachings of Jesus are principle oriented and spiritual laws and principles are universal among all of God's creations, but they are many and they are various and that is something fundamentalists will have to get used to. If the soul (which comes out of the heart of God) wishes for other things and other experiences within the created realms God doesn't condemn them to some dirty torture pit unless their actions dictate that. - ETRNLVW

It is true to the words of the Bible and your reaction is exactly what those who oppose this revelation do, per that same revelation. They say, "Did God really say?" "Can you really trust the words?" "Are not our words equally valuable, even though they say the exact opposite?"

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#99

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09.28.2018 05:34PM

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@EtrnlVw

Continue:

Also, as you say Man-made religions are just that. They are all work based (what you do to be right with God). Christianity is different. It is what God does for you that you don't deserve, yet because of His mercy and grace, He supplies a means for a relationship with Him through His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.

No Christianity is not different in terms of our actions and what we do as we reap what we sow, there are countless verses which apply to our conduct and the consequences of our actions so don't give me that baloney. Only in terms of whether a soul desires to be saved and exist within that collective society. Not all spiritual paths have a "savior" or redemption...some have the same underlying principles that achieve the same things for the soul.....which is for the soul to progress spiritually.
- ETRNLVW

It is not "our actions" that restore our relationship with God, per the biblical/NT teaching. That makes it different from other world religions. Restoring our relationships depends on the perfect/sinless actions of another done on our behalf. That is why faith in Him is crucial to the biblical teaching. By trusting Him, He changes our nature of hostility to God to one of love for Him. Those who do not accept His testimony, per that account, are separated from His presence, for they are unwilling to let God be God. They want to usurp that authority by their own WILL. I see that as exactly what you are trying to do here.

I think Romans 1:18-25 expresses it well:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

So, you have a volition to believe what you want to believe, but you had better be sure it is true to what is, rather than some spiritual FEELING or preference that you think is right because it FEELS good or right to your finite mind.

Which brings me to the question of why would I believe what you are espousing here since I don't see any confirmation but your personal feelings?

It brings into question what are the checks and balances for what you believe, other than your personal likes? I believe I can justify my belief against JUST personal feelings.

#100

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09.28.2018 05:45PM

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@Outplayz

O, okay i see. I will give it a try. I heard a method that sounds like it would do what you're saying. It was to lay down and imagine an invisible rope in front of you. Then to with your minds eye see yourself pulling your soul out of your body from the rope. To grab and keep pulling until your soul is out. I think i can try that one. I think if i want to have one of these experiences the best way for me is with drugs. I don't find drugs to be a cheat... it's just another tool. So i'm not against the idea... but, the thing with drugs is that you can have any variety of experiences... and these spiritual experience are even rare with them... i don't do them bc i am afraid of a bad trip.

Yes exactly, it's practices that help the soul to release and free its attention squarely on the physical perceptions, so many things could work like you said the rope pull, I like that one. I also like the technique of first using your intuition or memory to move around the room, it's difficult to keep your focus on it without moving back to the body or mind. Ultimately one does not need to wait until they die to experience outside the material form.

Maybe if you need to use drugs stay away from hallucinogens and maybe just some weed.....they can interfere with what it is you really need, because after all this is not for just a game. This is a serious practice and your focus should be your desire to learn and grow spirituality and how these experiences could help that process. You do have to be someone cautious because you won't be the only entity around, some people freak out because they realize they have visitors they didn't know where there. I have always loved the Creator and spiritual things so that's kinda my guide and strength. The beings in the higher realms can be quite intimidating, they have abilities and knowledge that far exceeds our current abilities and what we know.

There's another one where you just relax and stop the mind (meditate basically) and focus on the third eye or spiritual eye, which is just above the eyes right in the center, this is actually where the soul enters the womb and physical body through the gateway of the pineal gland, which is also your observation point when you close the physical eyes. Anyways if you focus on that area and let that come into focus it will begin to appear as something like a deep bluish roundish circle with colors around it like maybe orange or reddish. This is actually the doorway into the spiritual realms and if you hold your focus you can eventually work your way through that colored circle. These are all just things to help the soul release and let go. Don't be afraid though, just relax and know you mean no harm to anyone or anything. It's always very simple to return right back to the body whenever you feel like you want to. Or just wait until you practice being alone and quiet until you are confident with that sensation.

This would be why I wouldn't want to use any drugs especially strong ones, as it could interfere with things in a negative way, but all in all this is all for you, God created the multi verses for all of us to have experience through, it's yours just as much as anyone else's.

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#101

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09.28.2018 06:20PM

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@disgusted

Cite where you said that. - DISGUSTED

Please provide more of the context next time, otherwise, I have to go fishing.

Here is the context:

POST 91 - I never said that. I said that those who are not regenerated (born again) have a nature that is hostile to God. They will not submit to who He is, to what He says. Instead, they rebel and live their own way. Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world. - ME

My "that" responds to your statement in POST #89:

POST 89 - Why are you hostile to god? - DISGUSTED

That does not correspond to my current position.

My objection to that comment is that I am NO LONGER hostile. I trust the Bible as being His word. I trust that I cannot save myself because the "righteous standard" in my life does not meet God's righteous requirements (for instance, the Ten Commandments and/or the Beatitudes). I trust Jesus Christ has saved me, according to His word and my repentance to God for my sin and rebellion.

I said that those who trust in Christ Jesus and trust His sacrifice are no longer hostile. Then you said, "why are you [am I] hostile to God?"

I am no longer hostile if my faith is sincere. Those who have not trust Jesus Christ are hostile. They will not let God be God. They want to usurp His authority and call Him a liar (i.e., the words that are attributed to God in the Bible are not true).

Why does one have to die first to "live" forever? - STEPHEN
Because your nature towards God needs to change. You need to die to the old sinful nature and be transformed by God's Spirit.

God regenerates (i.e., the new birth, the spiritual birth) the spirit of those who put their faith/trust in Jesus Christ as Lord. We are no longer hostile to God but love Him for who He is and what He has done.

That was POST # 87.

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#102

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09.28.2018 06:32PM

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@disgusted

Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world. - ME
Is committed by godists - DISGUSTED

Not all, and debatably even most.

The worst crimes of genocide in the twentieth century are from secularistic and atheistic governments (estimated over 100 million killed/murdered by such regimes in the 20th-century alone). But if you want to include 'godists' in the list I will accept it with a caveat. Religion, for the most part, is a man-made creation, with the exception of one religious belief since they all say different things and can't all be true. It defies logic. Also, what is done in the "name of" Christianity does not always match its teachings. Most of the time it does not, IMO.

Nevertheless, the cause of crime, greed, sexual misconduct, sin is, as the Bible says, man's rebellion towards God.

Without evoking God you still have to explain all these wrongs and I have world stats on genocides that back my claims that are stated above.

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#103

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09.28.2018 06:40PM

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@Outplayz

How do you know i am not interpreting it correctly? That all Jesus meant was to believe in his story? That is what "through me" sounds like to me. To live life with his story as an example. So... how am i wrong about that? It also makes more sense since it isn't a tribal or narcissistic interpretation to believe that way.

Um... you didn't answer any of my concerns that make me of the belief the Bible as a whole and/or religion is wrong. This is called conceding and gives me no reason to believe anything you say. I told you i have evidence to the contrary... you have done nothing to challenge that. i am not interpreting it correctly? That all Jesus meant was to believe in his story? That is what "through me" sounds like to me. To live life with his story as an example. So... how am i wrong about that? It also makes more sense since it isn't a tribal or narcissistic interpretation to believe that way.

- OUTPLAYZ

I know your interpretation is suspect because you read into the text things it does not say nor communicate. There are logical rules for interpretation (heurmenutics). What you do is called eisegesis.

We can only derive meaning from what is stated. All else is speculation.

Supply your evidence. It is usually copied and pasted from atheistic sites that carry their own bias.

You add a personal experience, not a factual account. Anyone can do that and come up with a zillion different personal feelings.

#104

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09.28.2018 09:29PM

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@PGA2.0

It is usually copied and pasted from atheistic sites that carry their own bias.

No i haven't. It is how it reads to me the first time i read everything about Jesus. This translation was never suggested to me but obvious when i heard Jesus' story. It protects and universally applies to everyone with love in their hearts... instead of the human translation that damn's people for simply not submitting. That is clearly man-made ego and territorial bull. That is how i know i am right and you can't show me anything that doesn't follow my translation. Just bc a bunch of people translate it different doesn't make it right and is a fallacy to say it does... it just proves humans are fallible.

Again... you have challenged nothing and now you have a new challenge that you are lacking in again. Every response from you is proving to me i am correct about the Bible due to zero meaningful refutations from you to prove otherwise.

I have given you a list of concerns now and all you have done is say that you're right and i'm wrong. And... people like you are the ones that translate the Bible, wow. And you expect atheists and other beliefs to not see through this bull?

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#105

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09.28.2018 11:29PM

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@Outplayz

It is usually copied and pasted from atheistic sites that carry their own bias. - ME

No i haven't. It is how it reads to me the first time i read everything about Jesus. This translation was never suggested to me but obvious when i heard Jesus' story. It protects and universally applies to everyone with love in their hearts... instead of the human translation that damn's people for simply not submitting. That is clearly man-made ego and territorial bull. That is how i know i am right and you can't show me anything that doesn't follow my translation. Just bc a bunch of people translate it different doesn't make it right and is a fallacy to say it does... it just proves humans are fallible.

Again... you have challenged nothing and now you have a new challenge that you are lacking in again. Every response from you is proving to me i am correct about the Bible due to zero meaningful refutations from you to prove otherwise.

I have given you a list of concerns now and all you have done is say that you're right and i'm wrong. And... people like you are the ones that translate the Bible, wow. And you expect atheists and other beliefs to not see through this bull? - OUTPLAYZ

Obviously, you consider your OPINION more valid than my views, which I offer biblical and historical evidence for what I state, but if all you use is your personal feelings as the test, why is that any better than any other subjective, relative human opinion? And I don't buy the ego thing because I see your ego at play as much as anyone else.

I have challenged, and no one, other than SkepticalOne, has responded to my arguments. All they, and you, have done is hijack the thread onto other topics, avoiding an engagement.

Here is the topic of contention: Prophecy is Reasonable and Logical to Believe.

I don't translate the Bible, I interpret it according to rules such as who is being addressed (the relevant audience), what is the time frame, what does it mean to the culture of the times and us, as a secondary audience of address, what does the author mean, not what I want to read into the text.

Those who have translated the Bible have done so from the ORIGINAL languages into the different languages. The NT is translated from Greek to English, or Greek to Spanish, or Greek to French, or Greek to Chinese. It is not translated from Greek to English, then from English to Spanish, then from Spanish to French.

#106

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09.29.2018 01:17AM

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@PGA2.0

And I don't buy the ego thing because I see your ego at play

I never said i don't have an ego. I'm just as fallible as the next. My ego is quite healthy. I just see inconsistencies with the Bible that redirect my belief to something else. I am talking to you as an expert, since it is your religion, to put my concerns to bed... you haven't.

I have challenged, and no one, other than SkepticalOne

And, what is his views? You are being blindsided by me, i can tell. You aren't use to having a conversation with someone that is spiritual. That is why you think the topic is being derailed. It's not... it's moving towards where it has to when you talk to someone like me.

Here is the topic of contention: Prophecy is Reasonable and Logical to Believe.

And you're not listening. Are you not understand my views? I told you that i am all to aware of prophecy. I've personally done it... and, actually, i can tell you exactly specifics about the far out future and what this world will be like. I'm am 90% sure i can. If i wrote it down and it became true... would that make me a prophet? How about all the other people that have fulfilled prophecy that aren't Christians... do they get any credit?

This is what you aren't getting. I don't contest spiritual experiences. I've personally witnessed them, and i have heard and studied stories of many others. I have even had a "healing" spiritual experience and the only other person that comes to mind is Jesus... so, i out of the few others, believe this stuff can happen. I just don't think they give any credit to a single religion's god... since they happen across multiple faiths, including mine. My spiritual platform answers why... yours doesn't.

This is why our conversation will naturally go towards you having to then prove why these prophecies would mean anything in regards to proving your religion. This requires analysis of other claims... which is why you might think i am derailing but i'm not. I'm spiritual, not an atheist... well i am an atheist towards religion but it isn't the same as the atheists your use to.

Those who have translated the Bible have done so from the ORIGINAL languages into the different languages.

Oh don't try to pull a wool over my eyes, man. This is just a cop-out. Okay... here i'll say it like this... even in its original form i will still read it as Jesus' story being and example to live by... not a demand to submit. And, it's not just my feelings... it's more logical since it doesn't burn good people in hell for simply not submitting.

#107

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09.29.2018 05:20AM

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@PGA2.0

My mistake, why WERE you hostile to god?

#108

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09.29.2018 05:29AM

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@PGA2.0

This is what you said.

"Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world."

Over 90% of the worlds population is godist therefore al the crime greed and sin is committed by godists, your reference to spurious historical accounts not with standing.

Billions of godists performing billions of crimes and sins every year for thousands of years prove you wrong.

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#109

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09.29.2018 09:10PM

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@disgusted

My mistake, why WERE you hostile to god? - DISGUSTED

I was hostile to God because I lived as though He did not exist. I lived disobediently, and contrary to His word, doing what was wrong without repentance or consequence for my actions.

To this day, I am not perfect in myself but I have One who stands before me in my place (my Advocate) who is perfect and who has lived perfectly righteous before God. Not only this, by trusting in Him and in His sacrificial life my sin (past, present, and future) has been atoned for. The teaching of the OT is that every time the nation or an individual sinned a sacrifice was necessary to restore a relationship with God. That sin sacrifice was taken care of forever with the one time sacrifice of Jesus that the believer may have an everlasting relationship with God.

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#110

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09.29.2018 09:43PM

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@disgusted

This is what you said.
"Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world."
Over 90% of the worlds population is godist therefore al the crime greed and sin is committed by godists, your reference to spurious historical accounts not with standing.
Billions of godists performing billions of crimes and sins every year for thousands of years prove you wrong. - DISGUSTED

No, you misunderstand my view of religion, or as you call them - godists. As I said before, most religion is human-made. True religion, as per James 1:27, is to look after the orphan and widow in their distress, to keep your thoughts pure from those of the world, and to worship God as He really is. If you don't worship God as He is (John 4:23-24) then you are guilty of idolatry. "Good deeds" is an effort by humanity to do what they believe is necessary (their "good works") to atone for their own sins. They figure that if their "good deeds/actions" outweighs their "bad deeds" then they have saved themselves from the wrongs they have done.

The Bible makes it clear that that is not the case, that God is perfect, pure, righteous, just, and will not turn a blind eye to sin. The soul that sins will die/be separated from the presence of God. If they have ever lied, committed adultery (and see Jesus definition of it in the NT), dishonored their parents, murdered (again regard Jesus' definition of it), stolen, or coveted something that was not theirs, or taken His name in vain, is guilty before God of sin. In fact, both testaments tell the reader there are no righteous human beings, meaning none without some kind of sinful action. Ask yourself the same question. Have you ever stolen something, lied, coveted something that was not your own, or dishonored God by not giving Him the praise and majesty He deserves? If so, then you are guilty before Him.

As I said, much of the death, greed, crime, sin against humanity in the 20th-century is a result of secular, socialist regimes. I mentioned the genocide by some such regimes in resulting in an estimated 100,000,000 deaths in that century. If you want to look at injustice then look to socialist/communist states and dictators or oligarchies that suppress the freedoms of the population to exploit them (a power game where they become million and billionaires at the expense of their peoples). It is an example of what happens when God is abandoned. More bloodshed and injustice than ever before. Abortion since Roe v. Wade has resulted in the biggest genocide of human beings in the history of the world to date - 1.5 billion deaths. It is a crime against humanity.

Then there are the man-made religions that compete against each other and each believes they are the right religion.

#111

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Posts: 4,959

09.30.2018 08:08AM

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@PGA2.0

Billions of godists committing multi billions of sins, greed and crimes daily and you blame the few non believers for committing all of those things, reality is not somewhere you have ever visited is it?

Astonishing what godists can be convinced to believe, usually utter tripe as we can see.

#112

ethang5

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Posts: 5,875

ethang5

09.30.2018 08:37AM

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@PGA2.0

Isn't it funny? They substitute their own interpretation and then call it stupid.

#113

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09.30.2018 11:35AM

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@ethang5

Funny as......................keep up the vaudeville.

Topic's author

#114

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

09.30.2018 06:50PM

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@disgusted

Billions of godists committing multi billions of sins, greed and crimes daily and you blame the few non believers for committing all of those things, reality is not somewhere you have ever visited is it?
Astonishing what godists can be convinced to believe, usually utter tripe as we can see. - DISGUSTED

Again, your comments are groundless. I distinguished between man-made religion and all its evil v. a true belief. I also listed a generality of what happens when humanistic beliefs become the mainstay of societies. The twentieth century has been the bloodiest to date when God is forgotten and humans become the pinnacle of morality.

You see what you want to see and hear what you want to hear, governed by your worldview bias.

Topic's author

#115

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

09.30.2018 06:59PM

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@ethang5

Isn't it funny? They substitute their own interpretation and then call it stupid.

I learned a long time ago that you can't convince someone against their will. They will find every justification not to hear or understand what is being said. Unless the Spirit is working in their life to convict them, reasoning is futile, except to prick their conscience (i.e., plant a seed). Denying God is a defense mechanism. The same is true with Scripture. People read in all kinds of beliefs that are not justified by the Authors meaning. That includes everyone, but the justification is Scripture itself - God's word. There is a true interpretation to be had from it and the task is to find it. Once it is found Scripture comes alive. That is why the new birth is so important. The natural man/woman is in rebellion to God. They don't want to give up their supposed autonomous thought and actions.

Topic's author

#116

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

10.01.2018 12:57AM

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@SkepticalOne

Please, would you break down the relevant points you want me to glean for Post # 38? If you lay out the specifics I will take a stab at them.

Daniel was written in the 2nd century BC, and the "prophecy" it records is actually history. It is also thought Daniel was not speaking of some distant future but of his own. As to the passage from Deuteronomy, it speaks of "towns" (plural). I fail to see how this can be the temple (singular). It seems to me, this passage tells believers they can not get away from the wrath of god

One more point here. You said that it was "thought Daniel was not speaking of some distant future," yet Daniel 9:24 gives a period of 490 years. That is not near but far away. Other prophecies in Daniel also speak of the far distant future. In fact, there are many prophecies that speak of the far distant future from Daniel's time, like Daniel 2:44, or Daniel 12:4

4 But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”

8 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, “My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?” 9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.

13 But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.”

I believe most prophecies in Daniel point to a very specific time in the future.

Daniel 10:14 Now I have come to give you an understanding of what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision pertains to the days yet future.”

Do you know anything of the last days or latter time statements in Scripture?

#117

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Posts: 4,959

10.01.2018 04:05AM

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@PGA2.0

All religions are man made. Billions of godists committing multi billions of sins every day destroys your pathetic attempt at propaganda.

"Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world."

Your words, your tense.

Topic's author

#118

Debates: 7

Posts: 3,179

10.01.2018 05:55AM

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@disgusted

All religions are man made. Billions of godists committing multi billions of sins every day destroys your pathetic attempt at propaganda. - DISGUSTED

"Thus, all the crime, greed, sin in the world." - ME
Your words, your tense. - DISGUSTED

Anyone can take a verse from a context, isolate it, and give the impression that is the entire argument. Why don't you read the rest of the context (i.e., Post # 114)?

POST 114:

Again, your comments are groundless. I distinguished between man-made religion and all its evil v. a true belief. I also listed a generality of what happens when humanistic beliefs become the mainstay of societies. The twentieth century has been the bloodiest to date when God is forgotten and humans become the pinnacle of morality. - ME

#119

SkepticalOne

Debates: 9

Posts: 1,720

SkepticalOne

10.01.2018 12:22PM

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@PGA2.0

One more point here. You said that it was "thought Daniel was not speaking of some distant future," yet. Daniel 9:24 gives a period of 490 years.

Does Daniel give a period of 490 years ....or does the passage mention 490 unspecified units? It is the latter, yes? In translations where interpreters have provided units of time, the seventy sevens refers to weeks. How is it not a very charitable reading which undersrands years here?

#120

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Posts: 4,959