@userwhotaggedmebutblocksme
im refferring to sectarianism between abrahamco relgions
Let people worhip what they want, I know I sound like some liberal here but i want less religious violence
Catholicism is the Fullness of the Christian Faith
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@DeusVult
If you are a Christian, it is of the utmost importance. Your very soul may depend on it.
Nope, God determines your soul, not church dogma
Additionally it is a debate website. The same question could be asked of everything on here.
No, sectarianism is practically useless no matter what
Letting people worship what they want caused most of the wars we have. If we all believe in 1 God and worship him in spirit and truth, there would be less or no wars.
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@Dr.Franklin
Nope, God determines your soul, not church dogma
How do you know what you have to do in order to have salvation? Did God leave a Church to lead you to heaven? There are all sorts of questions that must be answered. It is nice to say me and Jesus, but is that what Christ really taught?
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@DeusVult
Christ DID teach that, the truth is your journey with god is personal
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@RoderickSpode
I'm waiting for Athias to show up lol.
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@EtrnlVw
I'm waiting for Athias to show up lol.
Me too! That would be really interesting.
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@DeusVult
Here you have to make the distinction between the individual and official teaching.The doctrine of the Church is without error. Individuals can be in error. So not everything every priest, bishop or Pope says is protected against error.
I didn't mean individual as in a renegade priest. I understand there's a collective agreement involved.
Who decides the official teaching?
However, every Protestant would have to admit that Moses was given the ability to infallibly speak on God's behalf. So if God did it once, is he not able to make sure that the Church he founded does not teach error?
Is God not able to give the same ability to willing or chosen vessels from different bible believing denominations?
In the case of Moses it's apparent that the most of the Israelites were not interested in having a relationship with Yahweh.
As for Peter, he was not teaching that Christians had to follow the Jewish dietary laws. He simply held the personal belief that he had to continue the Jewish dietary laws. He was informed otherwise.
I was thinking more along the lines of associating with gentiles.
The Church is bound to its teachings and doctrine. That isn't to say that individuals have not made errors. So as an example, the Church cannot change its stance on Transubstantiation; it can say that the actions of individuals done in the name of the Church were not right/just/etc...
That's true. And that's why I'm an advocate of not coming to any absolute conclusions on any major doctrines. For instance, there have been Christians who've changed their minds on whether or not a Christian can lose their salvation. They'll say they believed one way, and then saw something in scripture, heard a message, or read a commentary that changed their mind. If they claim that God revealed it to them, then they can't change their mind because God told them. And if for some reason they should change their
mind, they have to confess that they were wrong about hearing from God.
I have an opinion I stand by on the OSAS doctrine, but I could eventually read, see, or hear something that may change my view.
I tbelieve God allows us to think and reason when studying scripture just as with anything else....like science.
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@Stephen
I wouldn't exactly refer to you as a symbol of honesty and integrity.
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@DeusVult
i said there's no evidence of infallibility in the early church, and you just posted vague verses about peter's special role. way off the mark, on your part. it appears you have closed yourself off from truth.
what do you think of those examples of contradictions i posted from the catholic church?
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@Melcharaz
The problem with Sola Scriptura, is the scripture you are reading was chosen by tradition. If we were only to follow the scripture alone, would it not make since that there be writings on which books to follow? The are many, many writings not included in the bible.
Also if we were only to believe in scripture, it would make sense to me that Jesus would have spent a lot of his life writing, but in the scriptures we only get one glimpse of Jesus writing and it was in the sand. Instead he spent most of his life, showing people how to live with his actions...showing the importance of tradition.
Scripture wasnt chosen by tradition but by inspiration of God. Similar to old testament choosing of scripture. You ought to look up how they chose tanach over book of enoch for example.
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@zedvictor4
Religion after all is big business and therefore the perpetuation of the various derivations of the myths is now essential chiefly for this reason.
The majority of U.S. churches are small and low-income.
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@RoderickSpode
Maybe so.
But any business undertaking ,small or large requires income and to be able to sell religion successfully at any level, requires astute marketing of the product.
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@DarthBalls
Instead he [Jesus] spent most of his life, showing people how to live with his actions...
Dying in your early 30's isn't much of a living. And especially in the cruel and sadistic fashion that he is believed to have died.
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@Stephen
Up until about a century or so ago the average life expectancy of a human being was only 25 years, so Jesus didn't do too badly. All these old geezers mentioned in the bible are probably mostly mythological. Though that is not to say that a few people didn't live beyond their fifties, and back in the day 50+ would have been considered old.
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@zedvictor4
Up until about a century or so ago the average life expectancy of a human being was only 25 years, so Jesus didn't do too badly.
That's a matter of opinion., Vic. I thought he done pretty shite myself. His biggest ball drop was that he failed in his mission as the expected Messiah - "the one to come" . He did and said everything opposite to what was expected of a Messiah ( in the open at least). "render unto Caesar" must have sent the Galilean Zealots into a right tizz of frenzy when they heard that. Is it any wonder Judas Iscariot ( Sicarii ) a known Galilean Zealot assassin fell out with him.
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@Stephen
Dying in your early 30's isn't much of a living.
With your limited range of thinking it's amazing you even humiliate yourself in a public forum. Martin Luther King Jr was murdered in his 30's and changed the world, Jesus was murdered at a young age and resurfaced the face of religion and how people relate to God. Get real, their dying age had no relevance to their influence and power. Bruce Lee is another great example although he wasn't murdered per say, I could give you countless examples of major figures that influenced the world yet didn't make it to the age of 40. There's no doubt that Jesus' living and example changed the world in many ways. He really didn't have to live beyond what he did to make that happen, even more so shows his unique influence, he lived more than people who lived to be a hundred not to mention losing the physical body is not losing ones life, only their life in this particular world. It's not how long you lived but the quality of life you live and how you impacted others with that time.
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@EtrnlVw
Dying in your early 30's isn't much of a living.With your limited range of thinking it's amazing you even humiliate yourself in a public forum.
I don't feel humiliated.
Martin Luther King Jr was murdered in his 30's and changed the world,
How. By showing the world how to cheat on your wife multiple times, and get caught in the process? Not to mention fathering billions of bastard children.
" Martin Luther King Jr had extramarital affairs with nearly four dozen women, fathered an illegitimate child and allegedly encouraged the rape of a parishioner by a fellow Baptist minister, according to FBI files".https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/martin-luther-king-had-45-lovers-secret-fbi-cache-reveals-qf0p2fx3b
Jesus was murdered at a young age and resurfaced the face of religion and how people relate to God.
And you have the nerve to talk about ones " limited range of thinking".
Get real, their dying age had no relevance to their influence and power.
I didn't say it did. I said "dying isn't much of a living" ESPECIALLY when one dies so young. Their influence -as misguided as your beliefs are about him - speaks for itself.
I could give you countless examples of major figures that influenced the world yet didn't make it to the age of 40.
So did Elvis Presley and left his mark in a massive way, he died at 42 , which as I have said, isn't much of a living. Your trying to scrape up an argument where there isn't one.
There's no doubt that Jesus' living and example changed the world in many ways.
I think the Christian Church did that more than your god-man Jesus, and not all for the good. And by force for the best part and all against the teaching of Jesus. If Christians hadn't wrapped Jesus in myths lifted from ancient ideas, he would have been just another piss in the wind failed messiah and forgotten about. There were many people claiming to be the Messiah in Palestine at the time. Although I will admit, Jesus THE JEW maybe did have a legitimate claim to the JEWISH throne.
He really didn't have to live beyond what he did to make that happen, even more so shows his unique influence, he lived more than people who lived to be a hundred not to mention losing the physical body is not losing ones life, only their life in this particular world. It's not how long you lived but the quality of life you live and how you impacted others with that time.
And you have the nerve to talk about ones " limited range of thinking". Oh well, you are entitled to your fantasies I suppose.
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@Melcharaz
Inspiration of god would fall under tradition. It certainly doesnt fall under scripture. it still makes no since that if we are to follow scripture only, that there wouldnt be writings on which scripture to follow.
Inspiration of the holy spirit is scripture.
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@Melcharaz
Scripture must be written down. Inspiration that is past down via word of mouth or by action would be represented in tradition.
Inspiration is when ever holy men write or speak the words of God, they arent exclusive
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@Melcharaz
Yes, But scripture is the Written word of God. Still havent shown how sola scriptura makes since if which scriptures to follow isnt written down.
*makes sense*
The scriptures to follow are written down.
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@DarthBalls
@Melcharaz
What is a holy man?
Other than a fairly clever bloke that attempts to convivence the gullible of the fantastical....A story teller in other words.
Scripture is simply a written account of the said story.
The written word of a god.
Nope. A story told by men subsequently written down by men....A god being the central character....A common narrative the world over...Lets be fair and call it a naïve hypothesis...Though some of us are able to realise that human knowledge as somewhat exceeded the original hypotheses.... Nonetheless, the god principle is still sound in terms of an unknown choice between purpose and chance....But definitely not in terms of an ethereal, bearded Caucasian guy in flowing white robes....And no I'm not referring to Gandalf....That's another fantastical story.
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@Dr.Franklin
Christ DID teach that, the truth is your journey with god is personal
Yes. And He also did teach that He had a Church. He also appointed people who could forgive sins. There was a deeply personal aspect and also a deeply communal aspect. To ignore 1/2 of it is to ignore half of the message.
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@DeusVult
and that concludes your point...
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@RoderickSpode
I didn't mean individual as in a renegade priest. I understand there's a collective agreement involved.Who decides the official teaching?
The Church councils. That is the bishops in union with the Pope, definitively declaring what has been the continual teaching of the Church.
The Pope can also do the same, but usually does so through the councils.
Is God not able to give the same ability to willing or chosen vessels from different bible believing denominations?In the case of Moses it's apparent that the most of the Israelites were not interested in having a relationship with Yahweh.
Jesus made that promise to one Church. He lit a lamp and set it upon a lamp stand so to speak. That is like saying couldn't a king give anyone the ability to speak on his behalf? Well yes, but why would he? He has people to do that on his behalf. And the people can know that those ministers speak on his behalf because they are part of the official system that has been established.
The Davidic kingdom was a prefigurement of the kingdom of Christ. In the Davidic kingdom the king had ministers to work and speak on his behalf. Additionally, there was a steward (like a prime minister) who had all the authority of the king himself, save the crown. As this was the system of the Davidic kingdom, this is the system of the Catholic Chruch.
I believe God allows us to think and reason when studying scripture just as with anything else....like science.
Yes He does. However, Jesus also left us a Church with His authority to teach the truth and provide the sacraments.