Themeless Mafia 1 - Day Phase 1

Author: Lucky

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@Danielle
I'd like to pressure Ragnar, oromagi, Lunatic or Airmax. 
Pressure them for what? There's no character claims, and everyone's just gonna RC vanilla. Is there specific reason you want to pressure this group of people or is it just because they are "hard to read", and what does this pressure look like? "Vote to lynch airmax because im getting wierd vibes, who's behind me on this?" 

As town I feel like if you are going to apply pressure you have to have a valid reason for it, and in a set up like this the intention should be to lynch. Saying you just want to pressure people for the sake of pressuring them sounds a bit contrived. I don't see what your end goal is with this logic.
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@Lunatic
@coal
#53 coal
lol I did not actually read Lucky's OP (or the role list until after your post) 

I was tempted to not even read my role PM... 
#54 lunatic
I know. And I am glad you admit it, so we don't have to get caught up in that. Especially because I personally don't see it as a scum tell like Zaradi.
what do you mean, then, here:
#154 lunatic
Coal I am switching constantly between a scum read and a town read. Specifically I am trying to discern his personality from his game-play strategy.
[…]
Where I town read him is because he admitted to lying about not reading the OP. If he really is town, and not wanting to get caught up in a pointless argument that would just delay town this was the best course of action. 
but he literally didn't? he "admitted" the opposite? 
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@sui_generis
but he literally didn't? he "admitted" the opposite? 
Yeah I accidentally used a double negative. I meant he admitted to lying about reading the OP. Exclude the "not".
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@Lunatic
#181

it 100% is contrived 

I agree with coal that we should be generating a lot of baseline for DP1 so we can refer back to it later 

I'm pressuring him to engage, give reads, expose his thought process in his interaction styles 

as such, VTL Ragnar for activity
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@sui_generis
Yeah I'm fine with pressuring someone but with applied reasons. Just saying let's pressure so and so or a group of people has no weight behind it.
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@Lucky
how did you link posts by post numbers in #128 
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@sui_generis
the little sideways 8 number looking thing lets you hyperlink post. if you hover over it, it says link I linked your post 186 there
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@sui_generis
please explain your reasoning for #90 / what it means—why would the chronology of Oro's reads matter to Zaradi's pressure play? 
The sequence of what happened there isn't just Oro's reads.  It's Oro's reads, Zaradi's suggesting Oro is potentially scum, and then Zaradi not voting for Oro.   

There are four possible worlds.  Both are scum, one is town and the other is scum; vice versa; and both are town.  

If they're both scum, then Zaradi has to do something in response to what Oro did otherwise he looked scummy; but bussing a team mate early is risky, especially if a wagon forms. 

So in the world where they're both potentially scum, it looked to me like Zaradi maybe had a guilty conscience and while he didn't feel comfortable leading a potential wagon on Oro, he certainly seemed willing to jump on one potentially early so as to preserve himself for later in the game. 

Also in the world where Zaradi is scum but Oro is town, then Zaradi is looking like he's laying the foundation for a mislynch but again he's hesitating; he's not willing to lead the wagon, just jump on board once it's rolling.  

If Zaradi is town and Oro is scum, then where Zaradi thinks he found a scum tell he should be voting for Oro whether Oro is town or scum, even if for no other reason than to apply pressure.   But that didn't happen.  So it's weird. 

But then i've got to consider the alternative world where Zaradi VTL's Oro.  I think that if that had happened, where Zaradi just voted, I would have read that as being very pro-town.  Even if he's grasping straws he would still be generating activity and potentially forcing others to take a position.  But maybe not.  I wouldn't have read it as OMUGS because I don't think as a player Zaradi is about that life.  

The problem here is that I agreed with Zaradi that what Oro did was scummy -- but town makes mistakes like that all the time, because they're uninformed.  That's what uninformed people do.  I also can see how town Zaradi might be thinking that by simply noting the behavior that Oro is up to, he has done his part.   So there is a different play style between him and I; except he has been acutely focused on inconsistency in other people's actions, yet doesn't seem to note the inconsistency in his own.  Does scum Zaradi identify this contradiction and avoid it?  Seems possible, but town Zaradi isn't even thinking about it.  

If this was Zaradi's only action I'd be VTLing him and trying to get a wagon started, but independently of this Zaradi has been scum hunting.  He's been asking provoking questions and he doesn't seem to be discriminating in who he is talking to.  He's generally stayed on point.  The questions he is asking seem to be useful, for the time being.  The interactions with Oro and the sequence of events still stands out to me, but I think i'll be able to get a better sense of what that means and whether it means anything later on -- especially as I see more interaction between those two.  

That's my thinking so far on that limited issue. 
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@Lunatic
#185
yeah well besides generally desiring a healthily well-rounded dose of activity from all in DP1 then Ragnar specifically because he's only posted fluff of the sort that indicates either not really giving a shit, scum, or idiocy :) 

#187 
thanks. 
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@Danielle
Zaradi, the post where he mocked Objectivity for being neutral in his assessment felt town
I agree that was accurate criticism.  Not wanting to post reads that commit to anything could be that he is just not wanting to be wrong; but it also potentially indicates a lack of interest in actually scum hunting.   
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@sui_generis
yeah well besides generally desiring a healthily well-rounded dose of activity from all in DP1 then Ragnar specifically because he's only posted fluff of the sort that indicates either not really giving a shit, scum, or idiocy :) 


Ah, I wasn't dis-agreeing with your pressure just further elaborating on my thoughts on dani's convoluted pressure group. Re-reading your post I think you were agreeing with me.
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Danielle is town.  Good. 
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MOD:  PLEASE POST A VOTE COUNT.
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@coal
In addition to what I have already said, TUF and Zaradi aren't even close to on the same page, and it doesn't look forced. 

They cannot both be scum.  
okay, reread more carefully, and I am on board with this. I'm not sure why I originally had specifically disagreed / read that interaction differently.

#188

thank you. 

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my hierarchicalized reads 

sui
coal [yy] 
lunatic [tuf]
… 
danielle
zaradi
objectivity
oromagi 
airmax
… 
ragnar 

loose list 

haven't devoted much focused consideration on Oro or especially Objectivity yet 

my zaradi read is also still percolating


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@coal
#192

what makes you so sure? not familiar enough with her scum meta 

coal
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@sui_generis
what makes you so sure? not familiar enough with her scum meta
Dani meta, and her activity so far, reads.  Dani is town.  I will write up a more detailed set of thoughts later on but I think I'd rather hear what other people have to say now.  
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I want Zaradi's reads on Max and Dani.

I want Ragnar's reads on everyone; namely Max and Dani. 
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@Objectivity
I want Objectivity to post a list of reads on everyone and to place all players into either a town or scum bucket.

With the understanding that you don't want to be wrong, that you are potentially afraid of being wrong, and worry that someone will misinterpret your actions as potentially a scum tell; take a position on everyone, and give reasons why you are taking that position.  

I need to understand where your thinking is on people and why.
Zaradi
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@coal: what do you think of my pressuring objectivity?
Zaradi
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Specifically starting at 105
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@Zaradi
@coal: what do you think of my pressuring objectivity?
Please indicate which post(s) you are referring to.  I won't ask you to link because I know you're on your phone. 

Also, respond to my non-mafia related Kik message. 
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@Zaradi
Specifically starting at 105
I will review.
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@Lunatic
if you are going to apply pressure you have to have a valid reason for it
Vote: lunatic

Talk about being scared by pressure. That's super unlike you 
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@coal
Also, respond to my non-mafia related Kik message.
Be brave. Sexually harass me in the open. Dont be shy about it.
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Airmax is null, btw. Small town lean to Dani but I wanna see more before I commit with any strength 
Lunatic
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@Zaradi
When did I say I was scared of pressure?
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@Zaradi
I don't think you could've sat more directly on the center of this fence if you tried. Well done.
The above is the text you wrote from #105, and I agree with your criticism to the extent that Objectivity's prevaricating is a problem, objectively from the perspective of what town should be doing and subjectively based on Objectivity's meta. 

Though how you said it is something I am still thinking about. 

What stands out to me is the difference between how you scum read Oro versus how you implied Objectivity's reads were anti-town.  I think there was a difference between the nature of their reads, but with Oro you were reluctantly aggressive whereas with Objectivity you were more bratty/teasing/playful.  Although you only posted this after my prior comments about the sequence of events in relation to your jumping on the lynch (potentially seemingly reluctantly) of Oro, so maybe you're just gun shy because you're worried others may spend more time scrutinizing you if you VTL too quickly?  Seems like that's some kind of paranoia.  

There is also world where I can see a comment like that turning into something that is decidedly anti-town, even if you correctly noted Objectivity's anti-town prevarication (and you did), and seem to understand the potential significance of it.   However, I will refrain from saying more on the subject.   Too early to say anything else useful, beyond that I am open to potentially pressuring objectivity today. 


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@Zaradi
I prefer to sexually harrass you on kik ;)
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@Danielle
Who is orogami? 
*cry*

  • actually, i m not surprised you don't remember me
  • we never friended on DDO, for example
  • naturally,  I remember you but I can't confidently recall any specific interaction
Hi