Themeless Mafia 1 - Day Phase 1

Author: Lucky

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@Danielle
Ragnar says he knows the mafia has a role blocker.

That's not what Ragnar said.   What Ragnar said is that IF MAFIA HAS A POWER ROLE, then it's the role blocker -- which is important.   He left it at the conditional, which stands out to me because he is either suggesting he knows mafia have a role blocker (because it's him or his scum partner), or he is assuming there is a role blocker based on his role. 

The fact that he is both acting like he knows there is no doctor in the game and he is formulating his strategy on the basis that there is no doctor in the game suggests either that he is fake claiming because he knows at least one of the role(s) he's alluded to having isn't in the game but he doesn't know what that role is, at least exactly what that role is, yet, but he knows someone else in the game might be able, through how they react to his fake claim, to tell him what role actually is safe to hard claim so that when he's actually at L-1 he can convincingly fake claim while coming up with fake results the next day.  

And it already looks to me like there is some coordination to that effect going on.  Potentially with TUF.  Though I still think there will be useful information to be gleaned from Ragnar's lynch and I think the DP has already made that clear.  

But the reason I agree with you that TUF's affiliation can't be confirmed based on Ragnar flipping town or scum is because of the nature of TUF's reaction.  TUF reacted like he knew, exactly, what Ragnar's role was -- which is just totally impossible with the setup unless TUF's perspective is informed.  The only way TUF knows exactly what Ragnar's role is, is if TUF is Ragnar's scum mate or if he is a mason with Ragnar.  But TUF had absolutely no idea what Ragnar's role was because he did a complete 360 after Ragnar's actions.  When TUF was writing his response, which was something like "If you don't unvote TUF and see why that must happen after what Ragnar just said then you won't be getting any follow from me" or something like that.  It was a strong reaction.   If TUF knows what Ragnar's role is then TUF is scum, unless the two are masons, and I just do not see any world where that happens. 

On the other hand, the Ragnar/Zaradi mason team is looking more viable based on my reconsideration of the situation.  That would be consistent with Zaradi's strong scum read on TUF that, for the most part, was pretty unwavering, and the thoughts Zaradi had on Ragnar's lynch.  But I think if Ragnar flips town then Zaradi must be town, and then TUF has to be scum -- and that is why Zaradi was scum reading TUF and doing so in a way that approximated tunneling.  And consistent with their past play -- again assuming I'm right here -- Zaradi isn't going to stick his neck out for Ragnar, and frankly I don't think he should because I think Zaradi is confirmed town if Ragnar flips town.  

It is a miracle I'm town reading you since you are not playing to your #1 town meta which is tunneling me.  
I think it's been three years since I've played with you in a game of Mafia.  Maybe four.  I was a bit more gung ho back then.  Now I'm apparently old enough to be called daddy by a 23 year old.  
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I'm gonna throw this out there: if Ragnar's lynched today and I get shot tonight, I think there's strong merit to pressuring coal. Because holy shit I don't think I can say it any different way without hardclaiming.
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@Danielle
But the reason I agree with you that TUF's affiliation can't be confirmed based on Ragnar flipping town or scum is because of the nature of TUF's reaction.  TUF reacted like he knew, exactly, what Ragnar's role was -- which is just totally impossible with the setup unless TUF's perspective is informed.  The only way TUF knows exactly what Ragnar's role is, is if TUF is Ragnar's scum mate or if he is a mason with Ragnar.  But TUF had absolutely no idea what Ragnar's role was because he did a complete 360 after Ragnar's actions.  When TUF was writing his response, which was something like "If you don't unvote TUF and see why that must happen after what Ragnar just said then you won't be getting any follow from me" or something like that.  It was a strong reaction.   If TUF knows what Ragnar's role is then TUF is scum, unless the two are masons, and I just do not see any world where that happens. 

That paragraph didn't make any sense. I'll rephrase. 

There are three possible worlds relevant to TUF's reaction to Ragnar.  In the first world, TUF is town and had no idea what Ragnar's role was.  In the second world, TUF is scum and knew exactly what Ragnar's role was.   In order for me to believe the first world, then I have to also believe that TUF doesn't understand either what Ragnar said or what it meant because Ragnar's claim was at a level of generality that left the door open to multiple possibilities -- unless TUF has information to narrow those possibilities.  Which, maybe he does, which is the second world, where TUF knows exactly what Ragnar's role is because they're scum mates and trying to develop a fake claim to prevent a lynch of a mafia power role on DP1.  But the third world where TUF knows exactly what Ragnar's role is, is where Rangar is town and TUF is scum.  Knowing which of the three categories we are in already based on the setup, scum are the only team who can get Ragnar's exact role by process of elimination.  

Which brings us to TUF's reaction.  Maybe it was genuine.  But maybe TUF realized he was on a wagon getting ready to mislynch a townie and he knew, for absolute certain, that lynching Ragnar was going to make him look guilty.  I don't know that it actually would have, but once you know stuff it's hard to NOT know it; which is why I am now considering that TUF slipped without realizing it.  Something to think about ....  TUF is looking more like an option for me today.  




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@Zaradi
Calm your perky little tits, boyo.  Ragnar isn't getting lynched.  At least not today.
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The scum team is TUF and likely an inactive.   Maybe Ragnar, maybe not.  TUF is today's lynch, though. 

VTL Lunatic
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@coal
After how many times you said I am not today's lynch? lol
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My reaction to ragnar's claim was perfectly normal.
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So I think I have FOS'd basically everyone other than Zaradi and Danielle, today.... what a day phase.  

I have been thinking this through as I'm typing though.  And yes, we are lynching TUF today. 
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@Lunatic
Well then since the cat's out of the bag walk me through your thought process. 
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@coal
It's not all that complicated. Ragnar's claim is obviously a power role, doctor, cop, Jailkeeper, tracker, or mason. 
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@Lunatic
My reaction to ragnar's claim was perfectly normal.
Your reaction is also NAI, so trying to turn it in for towncred doesn't really work.
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@Zaradi
I mean you've had your mind made up about my affiliation from pretty early on based on purposefully misrepresenting my position. So I am not expextimg big ideas out of you pal.
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Note From Archive Creator: This game will not be in the DART archives for mafia. This was an invite only game and did not follow typical procedures for game signs ups. Only games that have been through proper sign ups for the site are considered "official DART mafia"

Carry on
Lunatic
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I think my town read on coal was wrong. In fact I am starting to go the direction of a coal/Dani scum team. Both seemed to have a hard time lettimg go of their ragnar mislynch and are redirecting it on to me for not helping them lol. I'm getting the vibes that coal will tale just about any mislynch he thinks he can get at this point. How do you go from "lunatic is town" to being convinced by zaradis half baked misrepresented case of "lunatic might be scum but he's not getting lynched today" to "lunatics todays lynch" the second he stops convienently following his lynch. I've been plaued a bit and should not habe bought into much of what coal has said so far and probably gave him more town credence than was due.

If I have a chance to later I will go into detail about my new theory of dani/coal. But right now it looks like coal is pretty happy with just about any mislynch he can gets his hands on. Same with Dani. And I don't get the vibe either want a no lynch today even after objectivitys death.

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Sorry for the spelling. I'm half asleep and on my phone. I'll post more this afternoon about what I've said.
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And if this is a dani/coal scum team town is probably pretty screwed. I'm not sure the rest of the town is active enough to get a lynch on either of them if im lynched. I can just see coal and dani gloating their victory and talking about how easy this game will be in their scum PMs the more I'm convincing myself its true lol. If we can lynch coal today though I think we will have a chance.

Unvote vtl coal.
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@coal

The fact that he is both acting like he knows there is no doctor in the game and he is formulating his strategy on the basis that there is no doctor in the game suggests either that he is fake claiming because he knows at least one of the role(s) he's alluded to having isn't in the game but he doesn't know what that role is, at least exactly what that role is, yet, but he knows someone else in the game might be able, through how they react to his fake claim, to tell him what role actually is safe to hard claim so that when he's actually at L-1 he can convincingly fake claim while coming up with fake results the next day.  

And it already looks to me like there is some coordination to that effect going on.  Potentially with TUF. 
Ragnar is soft claiming cop or mason. At this point, with Objectivity dead it would be far more helpful to town to confirm two townie masons rather than allowing us to mislynch one of them today. TUF hasn't said jack shit about being mason or hasn't suggested how we could work together to confirm people. For instance, if Ragnar is soft claiming cop, then why not have doc be on Ragnar tonight and ask Ragnar for results? At this point, with him claiming a power role he is drawing attention to himself so we should be figuring out how to work around that and confirm him if we aren't going to lynch him. But that's not happening.

Ragnar is either blatantly scum or a horrible town player. If it's the latter, I would imagine TUF as town would be reassuring us that his sus behavior is just his meta and throwing out there how we can confirm him. Instead, TUF is just ignoring how bad Ragnar is playing and now trying to turn attention on other people while providing zero instruction on possible ways for town to move forward. This doesn't read town to me. I'm starting to think he's scum regardless of Ragnar's flip (like I said) especially based on his last few posts. 
Danielle
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@Lunatic
Lol. Your post reads so desperate. coal says the only person he hasn't FOS'd today is Zaradi and I. "Oh they must be scum together! Har har! They're active and can't wait to gloat." It's more likely that you'd just wanna end the game because scum was found so easily. This is such a novice (and bad) attempt at game psychology by the way -- it's not getting under my skin. Just making you read scummy. 

I'd also like to note this assessment is BS since I'm the only one who has been consistently on Ragnar. coal has delayed lynching him, prodded others and voted for others so he isn't tunneling; I am. Ergo you are looking for a BS way to link coal and I and you failed. 

If you're a mason, claim so we can avoid mislynching Ragnar and we can put you in the town pile.

Otherwise everything about Ragnar's game play has been retarded and I have no problem lynching you today for trying to turn the tables on me when he reads so scummy. He is blaming me for telling the mafia... exactly what he said himself? None of his whining about that makes sense either. If he is town and I am scum, then as scum I would have figured out exactly what he meant because *HE* said it. So bitching about me regurgitating what he already said is similarly desperate to you trying to turn attention towards people that have been actively participating, scum hunting and not being so blatantly anti-town. 

You're not even trying to draw attention to inactives; you're literally choosing the two most active people and have not been able to respond or discredit a single thing I posted -- instead just saying I might be scum lol. Very convenient. 

Please explain what you mean when you declare Ragnar a definitive mislynch. How do you KNOW he is town? 




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With Danielle actively trying to help mafia with deduction (could be obsessed with looking clever instead of playing smart, but highly suspect), I'm also leaning less Coal/Sui and more Coal/Danielle. Obvious common denominator.

Coal is the most anti-town person in the game, which again could be due to his longstanding documented obsession with me. Honestly, I would not have joined had I known ahead of time my old stalker was going to be here; but when the day started and we were both on the list, I thought I would give his ability to grow the benefit of the doubt.  That he's calling, my infinite rejections of him "juvenile," rather than just accepting that No Means No, indicates I was wrong to give him a sliver of faith as a human being.

Unvote,
VTL Coal
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Official Vote Count

coal [2]: Lunatic (646), Ragnar (649),
Lunatic [2]: Zaradi (204), coal (635),
Ragnar [1]: Danielle (180),
Danielle [1]: oromagi (80),
Objectivity [0]:
oromagi [0]:
Zaradi [0]:
airmax1227 [0]:
sui_generis [0]:

Not Voting [2]: airmax1227,  sui_generis (505),

With 8 in play, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends at 7:10pm EST Friday, May 22nd.

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@Barney
With Danielle actively trying to help mafia with deduction (could be obsessed with looking clever instead of playing smart, but highly suspect)

There is nothing I could deduce that you didn't put out there. Stop blaming me because you did a horrible job at flying under the radar or defending yourself. You told the mafia that you had a power role, and you literally  narrowed down which one you have LOL unbelievable... you do realize that if you're town, the only people you gave info to was scum, right? Because the rest of us have no idea if you're lying or not so you stupidly gave them info and us nothing but speculation. Now you're blaming me for speculating when you gave the mafia direct info about your alleged role. I'm the one trying to figure out a way for you to confirm your role, while you have't done jack shit to try and confirm yourself. Nothing about your behavior is pro town and if you're not interested in saving yourself then I'm not either. I look forward to lynching you or Lunatic today. 


@Mod, replace Oro plz. 
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@Danielle
How many times now have you asked whomever the other power role is to out themselves? Doing so would tell the mafia exactly who to kill.

Again, you've chosen looking clever, over actually playing smart. Sure, I could have stayed silent and allowed a mislynch on me by not outing myself. Apparently I am a complete idiot for not doing that... Instead I shared useful information town would have otherwise not received until the mislynch.

Looking at your behavior from the outside, anyone can see that me flipping town indicates the people obsessed with this wagon are the most likely scums. If I flip town, do you agree to VTL yourself tomorrow? I doubt it.
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Mod Note: Oro has messaged me about limited access as per

- If you anticipate being gone longer than 36 hours, then you may declare Vacation / Limited Access either in the game thread or through PM.
He was given a temporary extension to the activity deadline, which expires at 2:15pm EST, roughly 2 hours from the time of this post.
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@Barney

I've never been active on this site before lol, we didn't "tag" people on ddo. it wasn't any attempt to be sneaky fer sher

Danielle
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@Barney
How many times now have you asked whomever the other power role is to out themselves? Doing so would tell the mafia exactly who to kill.
If you are claiming to be a mason then you can either have someone confirm you which would admittedly make you targets for a NK, but also spare you (and them) from being mislynched during the day. This is helpful to town. 

Or you can hurt town by allowing us to mislynch you, not confirm another player, and oh yeah basically waste the entire point of the fucking role since a mason role is basically useless if not for confirming each other. It's not pro town to stay hidden at this point. Use your head. 

And if you're claiming cop, then say something intelligent like you can investigate while the doc is on you. Your refusal to do this implies you aren't claiming cop and just claiming a mason role that you want to waste. I don't understand this at all. 

The only reason I could see someone not confirming you as a mason is #1 it would prove you both guilty if one of you is caught, or #2 the other mason is inactive. If Airmax or Oro don't confirm you soon then I'm going to assume you're scum. 


Again, you've chosen looking clever, over actually playing smart. Sure, I could have stayed silent and allowed a mislynch on me by not outing myself. Apparently I am a complete idiot for not doing that... Instead I shared useful information town would have otherwise not received until the mislynch.

I don't choose to look clever. If I am coming off clever then it is au naturel. I'm playing smart by looking to minimize  our potential to mislynch. You've done absolutely nothing by outing yourself if it leads to your lynch today. If you do have a town role, whatever it is, you are not using it effectively. 


Looking at your behavior from the outside, anyone can see that me flipping town indicates the people obsessed with this wagon are the most likely scums. If I flip town, do you agree to VTL yourself tomorrow? I doubt it.
No, because this logic is piss poor (very low level thinking) so now I'm concerned that you're actually just not a strong player and don't know what you're doing. 

If I were scum, tunneling you would be stupid. I have been given many opportunities to flip flop, pressure inactives, waiver or feign confusion at how weird your "claim" was, etc., but instead I have been focusing on how anti town your behavior is and have given you many options and clues about how to potentially save yourself despite that.

You're saying that if there is another mason to confirm you, they should stay quiet so they aren't NK'd (knowing you are already a NK target). But if there is another mason, their role is utterly useless without you and your role is useless without them confirming you. So congratulations on outing yourself as one of a few power roles and making it a completely null advantage. In theory it would have been best to not know who the masons were right away, but at this point, since you already outed yourself then yes if there is another mason the ONLY utility of the role would be confirming each other as town.

Danielle
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@sui_generis
@oromagi
@airmax1227
If Sui, Airmax or Oro don't confirm Ragnar as a mason, then we should lynch Ragnar today.

He is soft claiming mason but no one is confirming him. I would imagine if Lunatic were the other mason, he would realize that staying quiet about it now (with Ragnar so close to being lynched before) would be stupid as it wastes the utility of a mason role. The whole point of the masons is they can confirm each other as town. By wasting this ability they are effectively making the entire town vanilla and allowing us to mislynch Ragnar when he can be confirmed. Again, confirming the other mason is the entire point of the role.

So either Ragnar is scum LYING about being a mason, or the other mason is inactive. I'm tagging the people that need to post ASAP. 


Danielle
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@Barney
How many times now have you asked whomever the other power role is to out themselves? Doing so would tell the mafia exactly who to kill.

Oh, just to clarify on this point - I'm only asking the mason to out themselves because that is the point of the role (confirming the other mason) if in fact masons are the power roles. Otherwise, per your own soft claim you are saying that you're the cop in which case I do NOT want the doctor to out themselves. However it begs the question of why you wouldn't just claim your role and investigate at night with the doc on you.  This leads me to believe you don't actually know which town roles are in the game. I think you're scum. 
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Hi, I'm here.  I take care of my sick mom who's been in hospital for a month.  In theory, I'm only allowed to visit one hour/ day and have little else on my schedule.  In practice, every few days there's some new crisis and I try to spend as much time with her as I can get away with.  I should have the rest of today for myself to sit at computer which is how long it may take me to catch up but no guarantees.

Anybody want to give a summary while I read up?
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@oromagi
Anybody want to give a summary while I read up?

Ragnar soft claimed mason but no one is confirming him. If you are a mason just respond by saying so ASAP so we can move on.