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@bmdrocks21
Sure, that probably fits me. I would call myself a libertarian but I don't like being lumped with the borderline anarchist libertarians.
Privatization of Education.
Posts
Total:
60
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@PressF4Respect
Trump may have lost my vote based on how he "managed" these riots, now the courts aren't even working out, moderately disappointing immigration policy, and only a few hundred miles of wall. But let's not contaminate this thread with all of that.
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@Trent0405
Lol, then what's with the Biden pic?
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@bmdrocks21
Biden's da MAN, Bernie is trash, and Trump is just really incompetent.
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@Trent0405
Biden can barely spit out a complete sentence.
And Trump is fairly incompetent, yes.
And Bernie is pretty trash.
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@bmdrocks21
@Trent0405
Ah yes, I vote A because they are the least worst candidate.
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@PressF4Respect
Kinda how the system works these days, not gonna lie.
Ever wonder why voter turnout is so low? Nothing ever changes.
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@bmdrocks21
Yeah, it's a vicious cycle.
The more disillusioned people are about the system, the less likely they are to vote, which makes the politicians who are elected less accountable (as they would be appealing to a smaller part of the nation). Rinse and repeat.
This becomes an even greater issue when it comes to representation. If fewer people of a certain group vote, then politicians would be less incentivized to appeal to that particular group. As a result, that group has no reason to be attached to any particular candidate, except that they are better than the alternative.
Case in point: Despite winning 55% of the youth vote, only 18% of young Clinton supporters reported being "excited" about their candidate. [1]
Doing some simple arithmetic, 18% of 55% of the youth vote is 9.9%.
This means that only ~10% of youth voters actually felt excited about a Clinton presidency, despite 55% of them voting for Clinton.
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@Trent0405
what about outcomes? there must be some kind of comparison between private and public schools with regards to grades, attendance, behavior problems etc?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Seems like the studies find no difference or private schools preforming better for grades when accounting for external factors. Not sure about things like attendance though or behavioural problems.
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@Trent0405
that's interesting, if the private schools are "better" they must be better in some way, you'd think grades or something, maybe graduation rate? gpa? something, or maybe they just aren't any better than the public schools, sounds like an interesting analysis and rabbit hole haha.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
By tracking longitudinally a sample of American children (n = 1,097), this study examined the extent to which enrollment in private schools between kindergarten and ninth grade was related to students’ academic, social, psychological, and attainment outcomes at age 15. Results from this investigation revealed that in unadjusted models, children with a history of enrollment in private schools performed better on nearly all outcomes assessed in adolescence. However, by simply controlling for the sociodemographic characteristics that selected children and families into these schools, all of the advantages of private school education were eliminated. There was also no evidence to suggest that low-income children or children enrolled in urban schools benefited more from private school enrollment. [1]
Discrepancies in grades have a lot more to do with the children that enter into the school than the school itself.
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@PressF4Respect
Discrepancies in grades have a lot more to do with the children that enter into the school than the school itself.
if that's true then people who claim the inner city schools are terrible and want to throw more money at them would be wrong. Examining the drop out rate, math and literacy rates there certainly is a problem and tbh I agree is the students, their parents and the low standards of society. But that's not politically correct or acceptable to place the responsibility where it belongs. There is a huge problems in the schools but perhaps not so much WITH the schools. I think you are right, it does make sense.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Yes, I agree to an extent. However, I don't agree with how certain people (like Betsy DeVos) are tackling this issue. The core issue with poorly performing schools is the relative poverty that the surrounding communities face, and defunding public schools in favour of private ones would only make the situation worse (as those poorer communities would be less able to provide for private education).
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@PressF4Respect
defunding public schools in favor of private would be a band-aid at best I think. creating competition, which is the idea DeVos was going for I think, would work but to such a small extent it wouldn't be practical for the turmoil and unintended consequences compared to whatever benefit it might have.
Do you think if there was a way to reverse the fatherless homes that would help with the societal problems more than pretty much anything the government could do? Poverty and education being a couple of the big ones?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Do you think if there was a way to reverse the fatherless homes that would help with the societal problems more than pretty much anything the government could do? Poverty and education being a couple of the big ones?
The way I see it, fatherless homes are more of a symptom rather than the disease itself.
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@PressF4Respect
but you have to start somewhere, where or what would be the most productive and realistic change that could be made?
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@PressF4Respect
nah man
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I can tell you what the roots are [1], all we need now is a solution that most people will accept.
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@PressF4Respect
well tbh and I don't mean this to come across like it will sound but I'm not word smith, I didn't ask what the roots where, we constantly and readily identify the problems and yet no solutions, maybe it's hopeless and there aren't any, if great strides weren't made in 8 years of a half black president what hope is there really?
How about poverty? do you think reducing that would help?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Problem is, I don't know if conservatives will ever accept these.
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@PressF4Respect
I skimmed it but it reads as throw more money at the problem I think.
Problem is, I don't know if conservatives will ever accept these.
If they think it's a bad idea why should they accept it, that statement reads like they are right and everything else is wrong, might as well say if you disagree your racist.
Explain why it would be better to increase government handouts rather than wages and employment? Other than the leftist would never accept that.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
While I don't think to end it completely would be an easy fix, putting a stop to discriminatory mortgaging practices is a definite first step.
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@PressF4Respect
everything is a credit score so if you have something current which disproves that I'll read, not from 22 years ago.
when has throwing money at problems ever worked? government housing? entitlements? more programs that make people dependant? you'll understand my skepticism about doing the same thing over and over which hasn't worked, not in the long run anyway.
"Plantation politics. Black people in the worst jobs, the worst housing. Police brutality rampant.
"But when the so-called black committeemen came around election time, we'd all line up and vote the straight Democratic ticket.
"Sell our souls for a Christmas turkey."
I'm not interesting in bickering about context because the words apply and speak for themselves. Government money, entitlements and programs keep the blacks on the government plantations. Even Mr. Obama admitted it, believed it was accurate enough and true enough for his book.
give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.
you don't believe that statement to be true? what the left has always advocated and you seem to be, is just giving them more fish.
with all the "black" programs and blacks only still isn't enough? you want to make more maybe? how about black only mortgages? black only lenders, that will fix it.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
when has throwing money at problems ever worked? government housing? entitlements? more programs that make people dependant? you'll understand my skepticism about doing the same thing over and over which hasn't worked, not in the long run anyway."Plantation politics. Black people in the worst jobs, the worst housing. Police brutality rampant."But when the so-called black committeemen came around election time, we'd all line up and vote the straight Democratic ticket."Sell our souls for a Christmas turkey."I'm not interesting in bickering about context because the words apply and speak for themselves. Government money, entitlements and programs keep the blacks on the government plantations. Even Mr. Obama admitted it, believed it was accurate enough and true enough for his book.give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.you don't believe that statement to be true? what the left has always advocated and you seem to be, is just giving them more fish.with all the "black" programs and blacks only still isn't enough? you want to make more maybe? how about black only mortgages? black only lenders, that will fix it.
How is putting an end to discriminatory mortgages "throwing money at the problem"?
everything is a credit score so if you have something current which disproves that I'll read, not from 22 years ago.
Numerous quantitative studies have found that black and Latino borrowers over the past decade were frequently charged more for mortgage loans than similarly situated white borrowers (e.g. Bayer, Ferreira, and Ross, 2015; Been, Ellen, and Madar, 2009; Bocian et al., 2011; Courchane, 2007; Rugh, Albright, and Massey, 2015). Even after controlling for credit scores, loan to value ratios, the existence of subordinate liens, and housing and debt expenses relative to individual income, Bayer, Ferreira, and Ross (2015) found that black and Latino borrowers in all of the seven metropolitan areas they studied were significantly more likely to receive a high-cost loan than others. These results held for both low- and high-risk borrowers and regardless of age. Rugh, Albright, and Massey (2015) similarly found that black borrowers in Baltimore overall ended up paying five percent more for their mortgages than white borrowers, again controlling for credit scores and other background characteristics.
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@PressF4Respect
220 instances out of how many lenders and borrowers exactly?
Loan originators sought out lists of individuals already borrowing money to buy consumer goods in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods to find potential borrowers, and exploited intermediaries within local social networks, such as community or religious leaders, to gain those borrowers’ trust.
from you link, taking advantage I don't consider racism, business will exploit those that let them.
Even after controlling for credit scores, loan to value ratios, the existence of subordinate liens, and housing and debt expenses relative to individual income, Bayer, Ferreira, and Ross (2015) found that black and Latino borrowers in all of the seven metropolitan areas they studied were significantly more likely to receive a high-cost loan than others.
seems rather subjective given no real numbers.
the specific individual-level mechanisms through which discriminatory lending occurs remains largely unexplored. We do not know, for example, how the employees of bank and non-bank lenders identified black and Latino borrowers to target for high cost loans and how they gained those borrowers’ trust.
so in other words they don't really know, but they know it exists, um ok.
it's gone from not giving mortgages to giving them and making money off of them according to your link.
The persistence of high levels of racial segregation combined with structural changes in the lending industry thus facilitated the development of a structurally segmented mortgage market that offered separate and unequal loan products to disadvantaged borrowers located in black and Latino neighborhoods, particularly large numbers of high-cost, subprime loans
sounds like government influence right there doesn't it?
they could have been implemented without racial animus but nevertheless with knowledge that they would have a disproportionate negative effect on non-white borrowers, or they could have been established without any knowledge that they would have a different impact on white borrowers as compared to non-white borrowers.
I've read enough of that. Everything happens to some extent but how much? we don't know, but I would say not very much. in a perfect world it wouldn't happen, but how much does this realistically happen or affect the entire system?
This is but bandaid fix at best, if you could figure out what to fix.
got anything else? don't want to admit independence is better than dependence? how many of those lending institutions or decisions were made by a black or latino person?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
220 instances out of how many lenders and borrowers exactly?
It's a representative sample, but I can find one with a larger sample size if you insist.
from you link, taking advantage I don't consider racism, business will exploit those that let them.
But have you considered why they're easier to exploit, and why, according to the study, the vast majority of these predatory mortgage lending practices are targeted towards minorities?
seems rather subjective given no real numbers.
Did you read the study it cited?
so in other words they don't really know, but they know it exists, um ok.
Just because they don't know the exact mechanisms doesn't mean they don't know what the problem is.
it's gone from not giving mortgages to giving them and making money off of them according to your link.
If minorities do get accepted for loans, then it is more often than not going to be subprime.
sounds like government influence right there doesn't it?
Yes. To be specific, this comes as a result of governmental redlining policies from the 30s to the 70s.
I've read enough of that. Everything happens to some extent but how much? we don't know, but I would say not very much. in a perfect world it wouldn't happen, but how much does this realistically happen or affect the entire system?
The redlining policies that started this issue were systemic and had a huge impact on the entire system.
This is but bandaid fix at best, if you could figure out what to fix.
Ending discriminatory loaning practices would improve the situation drastically. There are laws in place (such as the Fair Housing Act) to prevent discriminatory loaning practices, but unfortunately, it's still happening, mostly because many lenders found ways around it.
got anything else? don't want to admit independence is better than dependence?
How is eliminating discriminatory mortgages fostering dependence?
how many of those lending institutions or decisions were made by a black or latino person?
I don't know how many lending institutions were founded by Black or Latino people, and I don't see why this is relevant.
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@PressF4Respect
Just because they don't know the exact mechanisms doesn't mean they don't know what the problem is.
assuming, conjecture is not the same as knowing.
Ending discriminatory loaning practices would improve the situation drastically.
since that's not possible what % of mortgages for blacks are subprime because the lender is taking advantage? Of these subprime mortgages how many of the applicants have some kind of government assistance, program or guarantee?
since the link admits and you apparently ignored...
they could have been implemented without racial animus but nevertheless with knowledge that they would have a disproportionate negative effect on non-white borrowers, or they could have been established without any knowledge that they would have a different impact on white borrowers as compared to non-white borrowers.
I don't know how many lending institutions were founded by Black or Latino people, and I don't see why this is relevant.
because if that is the case then there is some other reason that they are taking advantage of this group of people right? Like some kind of government backed benefit perhaps?
Typically anything the government subsidizes is going to cost more, that should be obvious. The government portion is guaranteed money and the beneficiary doesn't care about it since it's not theirs. Where all the people paying subprime ignorant to that fact? How many other institutions did they apply to? Lots of questions I don't see answers to.
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@PressF4Respect
Every one of your cited options [post #51] are government agency responses. Until we personally get over our physical differences and ignore them, or, rather, celebrate them as reflections of human diversity and culture, no government program will compensate. And when that happens, no government program will keep up with the personal progress we each make with one another. In other words, stop depending on government to solve our problems, They are terrible at it, and getting worse.
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@PressF4Respect
F-Law..."In other words, stop depending on government to solve our problems, They are terrible at it, and getting worse."....
...."Most of the key words commonly used to describe governments—words such as monarchy, oligarchy, and democracy—are of Greek or Roman origin. They have been current for more than 2,000 years and have not yet exhausted their usefulness. This suggests that humankind has not altered very much since they were coined."
..."So long as humans were few, there was hardly any government. The division of function between ruler and ruled occurred only, if at all, within the family. The largest social groups, whether tribes or villages, were little more than loose associations of families, in which every elder or family head had an equal voice. Chieftains, if any, had strictly limited powers; some tribes did without chieftains altogether. This prepolitical form of social organization may still be found in some regions of the world, such as the Amazonian jungle in South America or the upper Nile River valley in Africa."...
The five nation Iroquis ---basis of USA constitution--- system of governments, was that the women chose their male chief.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11 to 12,0000 years ago, the following took place in Turkey.
..."If anything, a discovery by Israeli archaeologists suggests the Göbekli Tepe construction project was even more complex than previously thought, and required an amount of planning and resources thought to be impossible for those times. Their study of the three oldest stone enclosures at Göbekli Tepe has revealed a hidden geometric pattern, specifically an equilateral triangle, underlying the entire architectural plan of these structures."....
....“Each enclosure subsequently went through a long construction history with multiple modifications, but at least in an initial phase they started as a single project,” the archaeologist concludes. “The implication is that a single project at Göbekli Tepe was three times larger than previously thought and required three times as much manpower – a level that is unprecedented in hunter-gatherer societies.”