Gun Control is dead after riots

Author: Dr.Franklin

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ILikePie5
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@HistoryBuff
lots of things. primarily being that the US is the biggest economy in the world. Those people are relying on that market to make that money. if they want to continue to make money they need do business in america. Not to mention that they are US citizens, so that is certainly leverage. 
A market is accessible to foreigners as well. Foreign nationals who earn income in the US have a 30% income tax rate. Unless you wanna jack that up to and lose foreign investment further harming our economy. So no, they can maintain infrastructure in the US and still have a tax rate of 30%. Greed supersedes everything right?

ok. but you are painting a fantasy scenario. Rich people can't just pick up everything and leave. the way they make their money requires them to be in america for the most part. It isn't possible for them to just abandon their country en masse, assuming they were so greedy and cowardly as to do do.
You’re assuming they are greedy, not me. I think they’ve earned their money the right way and through legal means written in tax codes. If you were in their place you’d do the same thing. Money can be liquidated. Banking system would collapse. It becomes a chain reaction. All it takes is a spark to do so. Plus we’re not even considering the fact that if they stayed the higher tax rates would translate to less employees or higher costs of goods. Americans sure as hell aren’t ready for that. Higher taxes for the rich means disaster economically. It’s simple economics. 
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But anyways I’m not gonna argue with a person who can’t even vote in an American elections
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But at the end of the day, the government has to fear us because we have the votes to remove them.

Wrong wrong.

At the end of the day, you don't get to remove them because people that could replace them get 1 percent in the primary, or get bought off like Bernie did as he supported the status quo. Does Pelosi look scared? Have you seen her showcase her icecream lately?
TheDredPriateRoberts
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@HistoryBuff
 the right to own lots of guns means there are tons of guns available to commit crimes.
false
 it might not be your guns that commit the crimes. 
so then you shouldn't have a problem of me owning them.
But the gun laws being lax and allowing everyone to have them means that it is virtually guaranteed that criminals can get them really easily. 
lax laws and punishment can/could be addressed and has nothing to do with my rights.
not everyone is allowed to have them, your ignorance on this subject is staggering.
therefore your rights are killing people every single day.
is the same true for those that own knives, hammers etc?







Dr.Franklin
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1.the crime levels would be higher

2.kives are used more than AR-15, yet there is no crusade on them

3.a loophole suggests there is something legal, nothing about it is legal-guns have to be registered

4.drugs and guns arent the same substance yet they show a rule-if you ban them, they do not go away

5.there is no systematic racism, it is all culture, with the economic factor- I have to agree and it is a major factor of crime, NOT GUNS
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2 things.

1) drugs are a morality and lifestyle issue. You can easily buy and use drugs in your own home and who is going to know. Guns are nothing like that. No one gets addicted to guns. No one is just using their gun inside their own home without the cops being called. And once you buy some guns, you probably don't need to keep buying guns. There are only so many guns you can use/hide. Drugs need to be constantly consumed and then you buy more, so the demand is endless. 

2) because the drugs are grown outside the US and smuggled in. The vast majority of guns in the US are manufactured in the US. And then they are also smuggled out to other countries. Once you get gun laws in place to control the domestic civilian market, you can also clamp down on arms manufacturing to dry up the amount of guns on the market. 
I'm addicted to guns ^_^

When you buy guns, you need to keep buying ammo.

Criminals will always need guns to have an advantage over their victims.
Gun-running from foreign countries is a big problem, just like drug-running.
Therefore, arm people to defend themselves. "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and all that.
Simple as.
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@HistoryBuff
why would it? all the cop has to do is say they resisted arrest. Now they can just say whoever they want is guilty. 

Body camera footage. Police car video. 

imagine that. Abused people dislike and strike back at their tormentors. 

Hm.... cops dislike people because they are attacked and harassed by them. Imagine that.

Such vIrTuOuS people striking back at the only people keeping their neighborhood from looking like Zimbabwe.


true, and that is exactly what they are fighting to accomplish by dismantling the systemic racism that suppresses them. 

So because the system is "racist", that makes them murder and rape people? Please explain.

but that would be a lie. Police will still mistreat people of color even if they do everything right. But even if it were true that they would be fine if they did everything right, that would still be massively unfair. A white guy flips off a cop and nothing happens. A black guy flips off a cop and he gets curb stomped or pepper sprayed. 

Proof of white guy flipping them off and being fine and black guy flipping them off and getting curb stomped?

Proof that if they comply and they will be fine? Because I see the black community defending Rayshard Brooks who stole a taser, fought cops, and shot the taser at them.

I have no idea what even you are describing or if it even happened. 


Or the classic LA Riots Reginald Denny.

Plenty of examples.

you consider anyone who tries to fight for the rights of black people to be savages. sounds like racism to me. 

I'm not sure if you are just not listening to me or if you consider rioting and looting to be a valid form of "fighting for the rights of black people", but that sounds like a whole lot of foolishness to me.

of course not, unless there are countless loopholes, or a constant stream of readily available black market weapons. Alot of gun shops don't care who you are, they just want to sell their guns. 

That is a 100% lie. Gun shops require you to pass a background check to legally own a gun. It is quite obvious that you have never bought a gun before.

And as for the black market.... yes. That is why you need legal means for good people to get guns.

ok, but that almost never happens. But people getting shot by some civilian with a gun happens almost every day. 

Most of the murders are committed by the very people that make up these mobs, too. Why should the fact that one small group commits most murder prevent the vast majority of gun owners from protecting themselves?

People defending themselves with a firearm happens every day, too.
Dr.Franklin
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dude historybuff is taking on 5v1 and thinks he is winning
HistoryBuff
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@Greyparrot
Wrong wrong.

At the end of the day, you don't get to remove them because people that could replace them get 1 percent in the primary, or get bought off like Bernie did as he supported the status quo. Does Pelosi look scared? Have you seen her showcase her icecream lately?
so your argument is that it is hard to hold politicians accountable, so the solution is to hand power that we have no power over at all? That will solve our problems? That is dumb. 


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@HistoryBuff
At the end of the day, you don't get to remove them because people that could replace them get 1 percent in the primary, or get bought off like Bernie did as he supported the status quo. Does Pelosi look scared? Have you seen her showcase her icecream lately?

so your argument is that it is hard to hold politicians accountable, so the solution is to hand power that we have no power over at all? That will solve our problems? That is dumb. 

Feel free to think outside of the box to discover what smug Pelosi is actually afraid of.
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@Greyparrot
good point
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
 the right to own lots of guns means there are tons of guns available to commit crimes.
false
how do you figure? there are more guns in america than there are people. Having the country that saturated in killing machines makes them very easy to get. 

 it might not be your guns that commit the crimes. 
so then you shouldn't have a problem of me owning them.
If we were talking about one specific person, then maybe you would have a point. The problem is that if you have that right, then everyone does. And if everyone does then you end up with more guns on the streets than there are people. 

lax laws and punishment can/could be addressed and has nothing to do with my rights.
true. but the fact that there are guns everywhere that are readily available to anyone who wants one makes keeping guns out of the hands of criminals completely impossible. 

therefore your rights are killing people every single day.
is the same true for those that own knives, hammers etc?
This is that same sad, tired arguement. IE people will have access to a less deadly weapons, so we should let people have more deadly weapons. Extend it the other direction. IE, there are already guns everywhere, so why not let people have rocket launchers, or nuclear weapons. I mean there's already guns, so what is the difference?

Do you see how silly your argument is?
HistoryBuff
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@bmdrocks21
I'm addicted to guns ^_^
no one is addicted to guns. It is physically not possible. 

When you buy guns, you need to keep buying ammo.
Only if you are firing them. In the hypothetical scenario where guns are not legal, then no one would be firing them. Because if you did you would get arrested. You can do drugs without people knowing. You can't fire guns without people finding out. 

Criminals will always need guns to have an advantage over their victims.
Gun-running from foreign countries is a big problem, just like drug-running.
True. it will never be possible to 100% eradicate guns from the hands of criminals. But if you can seriously impede the supply of them, you can force the price of them way up. therefore putting them out of the price range of most criminals. Organized crime will likely still find ways, but your average criminals won't be able to get them. 

Therefore, arm people to defend themselves. "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" and all that.
Simple as.
civilians are not police. Police require significant training in how to use their firearms responsibly. Expecting random civilians to stop crime is how it was dealt with in the 1800's and crime was rampant. 

Body camera footage. Police car video. 
and the camera was mysteriously off, or pointed in the wrong direction, or the footage went missing etc. These tools are helpful, but only if the people in charge of those tools intend them to be used correctly. If the people in charge of those tools are ok with cops abusing people, then those tools are useless. 

Hm.... cops dislike people because they are attacked and harassed by them. Imagine that.

Such vIrTuOuS people striking back at the only people keeping their neighborhood from looking like Zimbabwe.
Ok, so you understand that cops get upset when they are abused and you are fine with that. But when black people are abused by cops you think they should have just submitted to the abuse by the cop? How do you not see the problem with that?

Proof of white guy flipping them off and being fine and black guy flipping them off and getting curb stomped?
there is no footage of "white guy is totally fine because nothing happened". Who films that? I've shown you the footage of a black protester flipping off a cop and they grab him and like 4 of them beat him. You ignored it. So i'm not going to put in the effort to find it again since you completely ignored it last time. 

jesus christ, that driver damn near killed people. I'm glad he was arrested. But if you can't see why those people would be pissed after that guy almost ran them down then I don't think we watched the same video. 

I'm not sure if you are just not listening to me or if you consider rioting and looting to be a valid form of "fighting for the rights of black people", but that sounds like a whole lot of foolishness to me.
the problem is that you are parroting back fox news bullshit. You see rioters and think that is the same thing as protesters. It isn't. They are largely separate groups. There are people protesting, and then there are people rioting. 

That is a 100% lie. Gun shops require you to pass a background check to legally own a gun. It is quite obvious that you have never bought a gun before.
Here you go. Some common and easy ways criminals can get guns from a gun shop. 

Most of the murders are committed by the very people that make up these mobs, too. Why should the fact that one small group commits most murder prevent the vast majority of gun owners from protecting themselves?
I don't even understand why you think that is a good question. I mean you are basically saying, "why should I do anything to prevent crime?". People giving up their guns would help prevent gun crime. It is really simple. 




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@Greyparrot
Feel free to think outside of the box to discover what smug Pelosi is actually afraid of.
The left. She is afraid of the left. She doesn't give a shit about the republicans. They trade power back and forth every few years. When the republicans win, she just fund raises  saying how terrible republicans are and that people need to give her millions of dollars. She has made a huge amount of money off trump too. The funraising practically writes itself. 

What really worries her is the left. If the left starts actually using it's power, she is screwed. 

TheDredPriateRoberts
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Having the country that saturated in killing machines makes them very easy to get. 
have you tried to get one?  what does very easy mean?  you have to have the will and desire to kill someone right?  do you think people who have the will and desire could be a huge problem?

The problem is that if you have that right, then everyone does.
nope, minors and criminals don't have that right, certain other exclusions apply as well.
the fact that there are guns everywhere that are readily available to anyone who wants one makes keeping guns out of the hands of criminals completely impossible. 
we should do away with limits and background checks then since it's completely impossible.  if by anyone who wants means, they have to steal or otherwise obtain a gun illegally then I guess so.

less deadly, more deadly 
lol like the princess bride?  he's mostly dead?
so why not let people have rocket launchers, or nuclear weapons.
those would not be used for self defense generally, not to mention they are probably classified so as you say...

Do you see how silly your argument is?

remember when G.B. outlawed knives and home invasions spiked?  this fantasy you have of putting the genie back in the bottle is just that, an impossible fantasy. 



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@TheDredPriateRoberts
you have to have the will and desire to kill someone right? .
that depends on what you are referring to. People are killed by accident with guns all the time.

do you think people who have the will and desire could be a huge problem?
sure, and if you think it is easier to change the fundamental nature of the human species than to restrict access to deadly weapons, I would love to hear your plan for how to do that. 

The problem is that if you have that right, then everyone does.
nope, minors and criminals don't have that right, certain other exclusions apply as well.
true, but if guns are widely available then criminals will have no problem getting them. They can just get someone to buy one for them, or find a gun dealer willing to do it illegally, or a private sale, or steal etc. There are countless ways for minors and criminals to get guns if they are available to everyone. 

we should do away with limits and background checks then since it's completely impossible.  if by anyone who wants means, they have to steal or otherwise obtain a gun illegally then I guess so.
why would doing the worst possible thing be a solution? The issue is that restrictions are not working at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. Your suggestion is to get rid of all restrictions and just let criminals buy all the guns they want?

those would not be used for self defense generally, not to mention they are probably classified so as you say...
Do you see how silly your argument is?
I do, that is my point. Letting people have incredibly dangerous weapons that would be used to kill people is silly. You are making that same argument. IE knives are dangerous, so everyone should be allowed to have literal killing machines. It is a silly argument that you are making. 
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People are killed by accident with guns all the time.
all the time?  really? wow, how do those deaths compare to accidental poisoning or accidental o.d. on medications?
it is easier to change the fundamental nature of the human species than to restrict access to deadly weapons, I would love to hear your plan for how to do that. 
this has been discussed many times in many threads, ie. nuclear family, employment etc.
There are countless ways for minors and criminals to get guns if they are available to everyone. 
there are countless ways for anyone to do anything.
 restrictions are not working at keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.
correct so why have them then?
Letting people have incredibly dangerous weapons that would be used to kill people is silly
can I have moderately dangerous weapons that won't be used to kill people?  what might that be btw.  and you'd ban all hunting right?  I mean how could you not advocate for that too.
IE knives are dangerous
they are so why shouldn't they be banned like in England?
bmdrocks21
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Only if you are firing them. In the hypothetical scenario where guns are not legal, then no one would be firing them. Because if you did you would get arrested. You can do drugs without people knowing. You can't fire guns without people finding out. 

Ever heard of a suppressor?

True. it will never be possible to 100% eradicate guns from the hands of criminals. But if you can seriously impede the supply of them, you can force the price of them way up. therefore putting them out of the price range of most criminals. Organized crime will likely still find ways, but your average criminals won't be able to get them. 

Man, it'll be hard to take down organized crime when you take funding from the police.

And let's not just limit this to defending yourself from another person with a gun. What if you're a small woman being attacked by a group of men or someone with a knife?

civilians are not police. Police require significant training in how to use their firearms responsibly. Expecting random civilians to stop crime is how it was dealt with in the 1800's and crime was rampant. 
I said nothing about a private, civilian police force. I said that you should be able to have a gun because the criminal won't wait 15 minutes until the cops get there when they broke into your home. So, you shouldn't have to wait around with a violent criminal in your house when you can defend yourself.

Ok, so you understand that cops get upset when they are abused and you are fine with that. But when black people are abused by cops you think they should have just submitted to the abuse by the cop? How do you not see the problem with that?

No. You can get upset on either side. However, you are not entitled to resist arrest because they are rude to you. You need to "submit" to individuals responsible for enforcing the law.

jesus christ, that driver damn near killed people. I'm glad he was arrested. But if you can't see why those people would be pissed after that guy almost ran them down then I don't think we watched the same video. 

Maybe don't be a bunch of violent miscreants blocking an intersection? This isn't the first riot: they know these savage animals will pull you out of your car if you stop and beat you.

Last I checked, it wasn't legal to block a public highway.

Here you go. Some common and easy ways criminals can get guns from a gun shop. 

Yes, straw purchases are illegal for a reason. Most gun crimes are committed by illegal owners of the guns (gun was obtained in straw purchase, stolen, black market, etc.).

Still don't see why ALL gun owners should be punished when the VAST majority of legal owners never use them in a crime.

I don't even understand why you think that is a good question. I mean you are basically saying, "why should I do anything to prevent crime?". People giving up their guns would help prevent gun crime. It is really simple. 

Now you're sounding like Britain. They got rid of guns because "they are the problem". Now they are banning knives because "they are the problem".

How about you actually understand that this is a people problem and not a "gun problem"? Aren't you the one that earlier advocated for spending money on social services to "fight the problems that cause crime"? Or do you not actually believe that?
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@bmdrocks21
Humans are a problem because guns are a problem because humans are a problem....So to alleviate these associated problems, which is the most reasonable solution ....Get rid of humans or get rid of guns?

And if you were able to rid society of all the problems that cause crime....Do you think that humans would then happily give up their guns?....Nope ....They would just find another excuse not to....Because social disparity and associated crime is not the real issue.

In short, the real issue is the power trip.
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@zedvictor4
Even under the assumption that we could get rid of all guns for civilians and that would prevent deaths, a major reason we own them is so that we could overthrow our government if they become despots. Of course, there is the self-defense portion of it.

Perhaps time for a lil productive racism:

White people are the biggest gun-owning group. 50% of them live in a household that owns a gun and are a country majority. https://www.statista.com/statistics/623356/gun-ownership-in-the-us-by-ethnicity/

Now people like to point out how our homicide rate is much higher than European countries. However:

According to the FBI, the WHITE group (including hispanics and caucasians) committed 4,188 homicides. Take out the 1,462 under the latino category and you get 2726. With just under 200,000,000 population, that brings us to 1.38 homicides per 100,000 white people. Even if you kept Latino homicides and didn't adjust for their population, you would get 2.12. These rates are very comparable with European countries.

Black Homicide Rate: (5,025/43,978,800)*100,000= 11.4

Now, whatever you want to blame this on, whether that be fatherless homes/poverty/genes/culture, it is clear that there are some factors at play causing this disparity, and this shows that you can live in a peaceful country WITH half of your country owning firearms. You just need to fix the problem causing these murders, if it is possible to fix.

Power trips aren't the issue, and there are many uses for guns outside of self-defense. :^)
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@bmdrocks21
banning is much easier than making people stop killing each other apparently.  the average "lifespan" of an illegal gun on the streets is 14 years (before it's recovered in a crime).  guns are passed around, stolen, purchased etc in the black market.
they aren't exactly solving a whole lot of crimes in Chicago which had another banner weekend.
even if they could suddenly stop the legal sales of guns they are stolen from police and military bases now, I would think that would just increase.  Though after a few hundred years you might see some change, maybe, but since crime has been decreasing anyway I'm not sure you could really say why, we won't be around to discuss it anyway.

it's always easier to blame the thing than to place responsibility where it rightfully belongs, that's the American way.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Absolutely. People never put the responsibility of death where it actually belongs. It can’t be because he joined a gang and robbed a house. Nope, it’s the guns fault.

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@bmdrocks21
Ever heard of a suppressor?
Well presumably if this sort of law were passed, suppressors would also be super illegal. I mean there is absolutely no reason why a law abiding citizen should need to be able to fire a weapon suppressed. 

Man, it'll be hard to take down organized crime when you take funding from the police.
why? It would probably make it easier. When you remove tasks that they are unsuited for you both take funding away from them and refocus them on actual policing tasks. 

And let's not just limit this to defending yourself from another person with a gun. What if you're a small woman being attacked by a group of men or someone with a knife?
ok but the inverse is also true. What if you are a small women being attacked by a group of men with guns? If you draw your weapon you are likely to be killed. Adding guns into that scenario does not improve the outcome. 

I said nothing about a private, civilian police force. I said that you should be able to have a gun because the criminal won't wait 15 minutes until the cops get there when they broke into your home. So, you shouldn't have to wait around with a violent criminal in your house when you can defend yourself.
I have never said that  a person shouldn't defend themselves. What I have said is that you are much better off if neither the intruder or you has a gun. You keep insisting that knives are just as dangerous as guns don't you? Why can't someone defend themself with a knife? or a baseball bat? 

No. You can get upset on either side. However, you are not entitled to resist arrest because they are rude to you. You need to "submit" to individuals responsible for enforcing the law.
wait, aren't you the same person always railing against abuse of authority by the government? Why are you fine arguing that people should just submit to police when there is no reasonable reason for them to have to? Police have to have a lawful reason to stop you, search you etc. They are not allowed to harass anyone they want. 

Maybe don't be a bunch of violent miscreants blocking an intersection?
ok, so people are peacefully protesting, then a guy tries to murder them, they attack the guy who tried to murder them. And you think the peaceful protesters are the issue? Not the driver trying to run people down?

Yes, straw purchases are illegal for a reason. Most gun crimes are committed by illegal owners of the guns (gun was obtained in straw purchase, stolen, black market, etc.).

Still don't see why ALL gun owners should be punished when the VAST majority of legal owners never use them in a crime.
 because the fact that they are so readily available makes sure that it is impossible to keep them out of the hands of criminals. No matter what laws we put in place, what checks we do, as long as guns are so readily available they will always be available to criminals. 

How about you actually understand that this is a people problem and not a "gun problem"? Aren't you the one that earlier advocated for spending money on social services to "fight the problems that cause crime"? Or do you not actually believe that?
Absolutely we need to fight the underlying causes of crime. But the 2 things go hand in hand. They are in no way contrary to each other. You need to work to fight the causes of crime, but no matter how well we do there will still be crime. So we need to make sure that those criminals have as much difficulty as possible in securing deadly weapons. 
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Well presumably if this sort of law were passed, suppressors would also be super illegal. I mean there is absolutely no reason why a law abiding citizen should need to be able to fire a weapon suppressed. 

Well, you can use an oil filter as a suppressor. Are you banning those, too?

why? It would probably make it easier. When you remove tasks that they are unsuited for you both take funding away from them and refocus them on actual policing tasks. 

Gangs poisoning children with drugs, doing drive-by shootings, and robbing stores/people does sound like actual policing tasks.

Or do you need counselors to take down organized crime?

ok but the inverse is also true. What if you are a small women being attacked by a group of men with guns? If you draw your weapon you are likely to be killed. Adding guns into that scenario does not improve the outcome. 

Assuming the intent is to cause bodily harm, she would be better off than if none of them had guns. At least she would have a chance if she had a gun.

Why can't someone defend themself with a knife? or a baseball bat? 
Because guns are an "equilizer". No matter how small you are, you can adequately defend yourself against any attacker if you have a gun. That isn't the case with a golf club, bat,etc as those depend on your dexterity, size, and strength.

wait, aren't you the same person always railing against abuse of authority by the government? Why are you fine arguing that people should just submit to police when there is no reasonable reason for them to have to? Police have to have a lawful reason to stop you, search you etc. They are not allowed to harass anyone they want. 
Police do have to have a reason to stop you. If they don't, they can't legally arrest you. They should be punished for arresting people without reason.

But first off, do you really think these teenagers know they didn't break any of the thousands of laws in their state when they are resisting arrest? Tell me, what good comes from telling people that they shouldn't have to submit if they think they didn't do anything wrong? That is when people get violent with cops and get shot or beaten.

ok, so people are peacefully protesting, then a guy tries to murder them, they attack the guy who tried to murder them. And you think the peaceful protesters are the issue? Not the driver trying to run people down?

He stopped the truck. If he tried to murder someone, he would have kept going and even swerved to try to hit people. He wouldn't have blared his horn to warn them to get out of the way. Stop being silly.

You have no right to block roadways. They are known for pulling people out of cars and beating them.

 because the fact that they are so readily available makes sure that it is impossible to keep them out of the hands of criminals. No matter what laws we put in place, what checks we do, as long as guns are so readily available they will always be available to criminals. 

A cost of freedom worth the risks.

Just make examples out of straw purchasers and gun runners. If those guns are used to kill somebody, give them both the death penalty.

Absolutely we need to fight the underlying causes of crime. But the 2 things go hand in hand. They are in no way contrary to each other. You need to work to fight the causes of crime, but no matter how well we do there will still be crime. So we need to make sure that those criminals have as much difficulty as possible in securing deadly weapons. 

As I pointed out in an above post, white people own way more guns and have a homicide rate of less than 1.5 per 100,000. Black people own less guns and have an 11.4 per 100,000 rate. Obviously, guns aren't the issue. They are a tool.

Fixing the issue of killing somebody because they wear a different colored bandana would be a good start.
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Well, you can use an oil filter as a suppressor. Are you banning those, too?
If someone is attempting to modify a weapon to suppress the sound it makes, I think that should be illegal. So i would support that. 

Gangs poisoning children with drugs, doing drive-by shootings, and robbing stores/people does sound like actual policing tasks.
Those are absolutely police tasks. But those make up a relatively small percent of what police spend their time doing. Stats can be hard to come by because lots of police forces don't report on this. But here is an article discussing how police in these specific locations that actually report on this, spend about 4% of their time dealing with violent crime. A large percent of what they spend their time doing could be better handled by other agencies. 

Assuming the intent is to cause bodily harm, she would be better off than if none of them had guns. At least she would have a chance if she had a gun.
so you turn a situation where she may get hurt into a situation where she is very likely to be killed. I don't see that as an improvement. 

Because guns are an "equilizer". No matter how small you are, you can adequately defend yourself against any attacker if you have a gun. That isn't the case with a golf club, bat,etc as those depend on your dexterity, size, and strength.
so you admit that guns are much more deadly than a knife?

Police do have to have a reason to stop you. If they don't, they can't legally arrest you. They should be punished for arresting people without reason.
agreed. But that is a core part of the problem. Police do this all the time. Many police see being black as a reasonable reason to stop, question or arrest people. They need a reason to do this, but since there is little to no enforcement of this, they can make up any flimsy pretext they want to question or arrest someone. 

But first off, do you really think these teenagers know they didn't break any of the thousands of laws in their state when they are resisting arrest? Tell me, what good comes from telling people that they shouldn't have to submit if they think they didn't do anything wrong? That is when people get violent with cops and get shot or beaten.
I agree that resisting arrest rarely ends well for anyone and that they shouldn't do it. But the core problem is that they shouldn't be in a situation where they need to. The police harassing them, questioning them or arresting them when they have done nothing wrong is causing the problem. 

He stopped the truck. If he tried to murder someone, he would have kept going and even swerved to try to hit people. He wouldn't have blared his horn to warn them to get out of the way. Stop being silly.
he drove directly into a crowd of people. That is reckless endangerment. That driver was arrested for this. 

A cost of freedom worth the risks.
ok. so we should have the freedom to own nuclear weapons? I mean it will be the end of the human race, but hey, at least we will be free as we die. 

Just make examples out of straw purchasers and gun runners. If those guns are used to kill somebody, give them both the death penalty.
Strict penalties on their own are completely worthless. They don't work. People don't think they will get caught, or they wouldn't have committed the crime in the 1st place. Just slapping harsher punishments on them will do nothing. You need to actually get the guns out of circulation. 

As I pointed out in an above post, white people own way more guns and have a homicide rate of less than 1.5 per 100,000. Black people own less guns and have an 11.4 per 100,000 rate. Obviously, guns aren't the issue. They are a tool.
They aren't the only issue, but i have never argued that they are. The underlying causes of crime also need to be fought. But the guns themselves are a problem too. Nuclear weapons and grenade launchers are also "tools". But they also would cause way more problems than they solve if we were allowed to own them. 

Fixing the issue of killing somebody because they wear a different colored bandana would be a good start.
agreed. And that is why we need progressive public policy to address those issues (although Republicans will fight tooth and nail to prevent that happening). But that sort of thing will never eliminate crime altogether. If we want to stop people being killed by guns, we need to do something about the guns. 
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record setting gun sales again, shortages of guns and ammo  :(

NY defunding works?  um

I wonder why the rush to buy guns?
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I wonder why the rush to buy guns?
people fear change. establishment figures love to fear monger. If they can convince you commies are coming to kill you, you will sign up for whatever horrible, corportist policies they want to pass.

The rush to buy guns has more to do with the insane nonsense being spread by fox news than by actual reality. 

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The rush to buy guns has more to do with the insane nonsense being spread by fox news than by actual reality. 



or it could be that waves of people are looting businessess and towns all over the country
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you think?  how about the 12 year old boy knocked down by the big black man?  the guy being attacked while at work?  there's an awful lot of instances aside from rogue cops and white supremacist that would motivate first time gun purchasers, many of which, ironically are learning that the laws they supported are now biting them in the ass.
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or it could be that waves of people are looting businessess and towns all over the country
it could be, but since that didn't happen it definitely isn't. But since you are probably getting your info I can understand why you would think that. You also probably think Obama was a secret kenyan muslim and that caravans from mexico are invading america.