Facts are fundamentally just feelings

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

08.08.2020 04:00PM

What people believes, it later becomes the facts.

What people believes is made of feelings.

Facts are fundamentally just feelings.

Facts used to be that God is truth and anything said against God is lies. Facts used to be that Earth is completely flat.

Now they aren't actual facts anymore, mainly that people don't believe that anymore.

Comment your thoughts on this.

WaterPhoenix

Debates: 12

Posts: 2,094

WaterPhoenix

08.08.2020 05:05PM

gravity exsits is an undeniable fact, if you jump up you will fall back down. those aren't feelings that's the most basic of logic.

Topic's author

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

08.08.2020 05:18PM

-->

@WaterPhoenix

Einstein proved that gravity isn’t an individual force, and I can simply deny that gravity exists and that infinitely many ghost hands are subtly grabbing me in the foot and that the textbooks are lying.

What people believe, there lies the truth. Nothing is true until they are.

Dr.Franklin

Debates: 32

Posts: 10,567

Dr.Franklin

08.08.2020 06:46PM

no they are not

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,294

08.08.2020 10:19PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

I can simply deny that gravity exists and that infinitely many ghost hands are subtly grabbing me in the foot and that the textbooks are lying.

Yeah you could but you would be wrong.

Topic's author

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

08.08.2020 10:23PM

-->

@Discipulus_Didicit

I could be wrong because this is not what people think. What people think is true is essentially true in this social world.

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,294

08.09.2020 03:42AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

So if everyone thought that pure water was toxic for humans to drink then pure water would become toxic for humans to drink?

Topic's author

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

08.09.2020 04:10AM

-->

@Discipulus_Didicit

They won’t. That is why it is not the truth. If it is not the truth, then no one will believe in it. Your idea cannot seem to get around people.

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,294

08.09.2020 04:20AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

They won’t.

But if they did...?

#10

Debates: 22

Posts: 11,251

08.09.2020 06:43AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

Hmmmmm.

I feel that your syntax needs brushing up a tad, and that's a certain fact.

Topic's author

#11

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

08.09.2020 12:08PM

-->

@zedvictor4

“I feel that”

#12

Tradesecret

Debates: 2

Posts: 3,342

Tradesecret

08.10.2020 04:11AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

What people believes, it later becomes the facts.

So if I believe that God exists - does that mean it will become a fact? I am talking about God, not my belief.

Or if I believe that what people believe has nothing to do with facts, then will that later become a fact?

What people believes is made of feelings.

When you mean feelings, are you talking about touch, sight, hearing, and smell? Or are you talking about something else? Like, love or sadness, or humility, or fear or something else?

In other words are you using the term feeling to refer to our experience of life or to the emotions that people experience as individuals in response to the things we experience in life?

Facts are fundamentally just feelings.

Please clarify your previous statement - by answering my questions in the previous section.

What is a belief? Is it something we think about philosophically? Is it something that we experience and articulate? Is it an emotional response to what we experience?

I would think that facts are an objective reality within a neutral framework. For example. 1 + 1 = 2. Or wood comes from trees. Or I am sitting at my computer typing.

Yet, our interpretation of those facts can be manifold. Some might argue that 1 does not always = 1. Some might argue that wood comes from the shop. Others might say that I am actually drinking a coffee.

Facts used to be that God is truth and anything said against God is lies. Facts used to be that Earth is completely flat.

Based on your premises, I don't see how this can be the case. It was a certainly a belief that God was truth and anything said against God was in fact lies. But was it a fact? If of course you are correct that beliefs and facts are identical, then perhaps that might be true. Yet, just because I believed that the sun revolved around the world 500 years ago did not make it a fact. It only made it a belief - but not a fact. And in fact if our scientists are correct, then it was never a fact, simply an error on human's part at the time. An error that has been corrected. Similarly, if my mother who lives in a mental asylum's believes she is Cleopatra, that belief does not make it a fact. It, the belief actually reveals that her belief is not a fact. If I believe I can fly, that won't suddenly become a fact, just because I believe it to be the case.

Now they aren't actual facts anymore, mainly that people don't believe that anymore.

Yeah, I disagree with you here. Facts are not determined by whether someone believes them or not. Facts are objective realities. Of course - how these objective realities are observed and understood is subject to subjective realities. I look at a cow and think to myself - hmm a creation of God, to be used by God's people for the purposes of enjoying God. An atheist looks at the same cow and thinks: food, or animal - that has evolved over years to become what it is. We are both looking a cow - seeing with our own eyes - but the cow is a cow whatever we think or believe about it. It is not a dog. It is not a cat. It is not a human. It cannot fly. It does not matter what we believe about it - that wont change its objective abilities and capabilities or characteristics - or if you like the objective facts about it. What we believe won't change whether it was created by God or a process in evolution. Those things - or objective realities stand apart from our beliefs about it.

#13

Debates: 1

Posts: 129

08.16.2020 05:35PM

Empirical facts fundamentally require experiences. But we can imagine a creature that has experiences without feelings.

Non-empirical facts, if they exist, don't require anything if we're including fundamental logical truths such as the LOI.

#14

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,294

08.17.2020 04:26AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

I feel like everything you said is complete nonsense.

#15

Debates: 22

Posts: 11,251

08.18.2020 07:44AM

-->

@Discipulus_Didicit

I second that.

#16

Debates: 9

Posts: 5,294

08.18.2020 03:09PM

So the theory is "whatever most people say is true magically becomes true"

So is the theory wrong because most people in this thread say it is wrong or has the theory always been wrong?

#17

Debates: 6

Posts: 3,205

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

08.19.2020 05:18AM

Well, going by merriam webster, one of the definitions of fact is.

"A piece of information presented as having objective reality"

Seems to me one of the more common definitions really. Information, isn't really a feeling though.

Ben Shapiro's even well known for saying "Facts don't care about your feelings."

Sure you can argue against that, though it becomes semantic reasoning eventually, I think.

Not that it's not 'worth doing, or can't teach a person a bit of humbleness when using facts,

"1500 years ago, everybody 'knew that the earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody 'knew that the earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you 'knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll 'know tomorrow." - MIB

But plain speaking, I think of facts as what's Reasoned/Recognized as true.

#18

Debates: 1

Posts: 129

08.21.2020 09:59AM

(P1) If all facts are just feelings then there won't be any examples, at all, of a fact that isn't just feelings.

(P2) It's a fact that we don't have libertarian free will.

(P3) The fact that we don't have libertarian free will is an example of a fact that isn't just feelings.

(C1) Therefore, facts are not just feelings.

80 days later

#19

Theweakeredge

Debates: 33

Posts: 3,457

Theweakeredge

11.09.2020 06:15PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

You are confusing perceived fact with fact, they aren't synonymous.

#20

Conway

Debates: 0

Posts: 278

Conway

11.09.2020 07:06PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

I use knowledge to convey a perception of reality that one has the utmost faith in.

That is what it means to know, to be faithful to the perception of truth, or have complete faith in God.

Facts are verifiable knowledge, a useful distinction in the transfer of knowledge. Facts may be accepted by a jury as indisputable evidence.

#21

Sum1hugme

Debates: 37

Posts: 1,014

Sum1hugme

11.13.2020 02:52AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

"Einstein proved that gravity isn’t an individual force, and I can simply deny that gravity exists and that infinitely many ghost hands are subtly grabbing me in the foot and that the textbooks are lying."

It's my understanding that gravity is the result of mass bending the geometry of spacetime. So ghost hands is fundamentally an unscientific idea bc it's untestable, unfalsifiable, and pales in comparison as an explanation of "why things fall" than the theory of gravity.

#22

Mopac

Debates: 4

Posts: 8,050

Mopac

11.13.2020 03:21AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

Sounds like nihilism.

Even these feelings are meaningless.

Chunk it all into the black hole.

I completely disagree with this making arbitrary of truth, but of course, you could simply just dismiss what I say as a feeling. Then I could dismiss what you are saying as a feeling.

Then it can all be dismissed.

Chunk it all into the black hole.

Nihilism. The doctrine of negation.

453 days later

Topic's author

#23

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

02.09.2022 08:14AM

smh

Topic's author

#24

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

02.09.2022 08:20AM

Facts do care about feelings, because in order to make it a fact, you have to feel that it is correct.

And no, facts can be subjective. Put a man on the other end of a 9 statue and put a wall also so he can't go to the other side, and he will say that this is a 6. For a person elsewhere, it is a 9. It is a fact to you because YOU believe it is true.

Gravity? Yeah sure. You jump up, you throw the ball, it goes down. Gravity! That is Proof! If you are born in in 0G and there is no video or proof showing that gravity indeed exists, to you it seems like as if it doesn't exist.

Facts cannot not care about your feelings. If you don't feel this is true, it isn't a fact for you. You could be convinced though, by means that you think is actually "proof".

And for the "perceived fact" thing, no, you think it is a fact because you think you have proof of it being true. The world has no obligation to be true, you are the reason that it exists for you. For others, if they even exist at all, their world may be different. Hallucinations and illusions are just different perceptions of the world.

#25

Debates: 6

Posts: 3,205

02.09.2022 08:29AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

Eh, I just don't agree with your logic.

A person may desperately want, desire, feel that something fact 'must not be,

And yet, only by denying their eyes, logic, reason, and rationale,

Can they deny the truth.

Personel Facts are a mix of senses, experiences, logic. (Edit, and Choice, I suppose.

Objective Facts are different, and unknowable, I suppose 'some might argue.)

'That much I'd be willing to admit,

But when people talk of 'feelings, the mind usually goes to no logic, the most basic and primitive unreasoning animals.

Maybe you're using the wrong words to make your argument?

Topic's author

#26

Debates: 167

Posts: 3,837

02.09.2022 08:49AM

-->

@Lemming

That is because in order for something to become a fact, all you have to do is to feel that it is true.

#27

Debates: 6

Posts: 3,205

02.09.2022 08:50AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

What do you mean by feel?

#28

FLRW

Debates: 0

Posts: 5,102

FLRW

02.09.2022 07:51PM

The definition of a fact is something that is true or something that has occurred or has been proven correct. An example of a fact is that the world is round. An example of a fact is the detail about a driver texting while driving that is told to the court and reported in a news story.

#29

Debates: 22

Posts: 11,251