I would expect from the player base would be, at the very least, boycotting a mod that did such a thing, unapologetically and doesn't really seem to care that they engaged in such behavior.
I do.
The issue isn't whether or not "not blocking people" should be a rule in mafia. The issue is whether mods, in the middle of the game (in the middle of a day phase, no less) should create rules directed at the behavior of a single person out of spite. If it was like that from the beginning of the game, I wouldn't have blocked you in the first place. If he decided to make it a rule in between phases for whatever reasons, well I can't say how I would have reacted. But it is still wholly different to having a disagreement with a mod, and the mod going, "fine, if you don't like it I'm making a new rule" that just happens to target something you've done in the game.
Point, is the general take away is that this is just a joke to be laughed off. And I am not Okay with that.
As far as you and me...Yes, you've said a thousand times you have no ill will. It's not about your will, it about how, for whatever reason, how you argue ticks me off. Whether it just happens to be that way or whether you do it intentionally, I realize is immaterial. Point is, engaging with you was hurting my game play. So rather than continue to be tempted to engage with you, I decided to block you as a deliberate strategy to try and rebuild credibility in the game.
As far as your comment in the mod discord, I can't see that as anything else but an intentional zing at me. After all, why go there?
You already had existing lines of communication with the mod via your role PM and the mafia discord PM to ask questions. Yet you deliberately chose to use the discord you knew I was in, despite being quite on the record that you didn't like using the mod discord. You basically went out of your way to ask it there, rather than in your existing line of communications. Nor did you simple take it and leave it once you actually got the answer to your question, you had to make a directed comment about me. However petty or mild anyone judges this, it was still unnecessary and about a game in progress. It's not acceptable no matter which way you cut it.
So, yeah. Like I said. I am not going to play in a mafia community where this is even remotely acceptable and doesn't seem to bother anyone in the slightest.
People quibbling over irrelevant word choice as if that's the crux of the issue. IT WAS A RULE CREATED TO SPITE A PLAYER IN THE GAME.This is 1000% unacceptable behavior for a mod and the reaction I would expect from the player base would be, at the very least, boycotting a mod that did such a thing, unapologetically and doesn't really seem to care that they engaged in such behavior.Why the fuck are people completely ignoring this point and instead quibbling about fucking grammar?!
The issue isn't whether or not "not blocking people" should be a rule in mafia. The issue is whether mods, in the middle of the game (in the middle of a day phase, no less) should create rules directed at the behavior of a single person out of spite. If it was like that from the beginning of the game, I wouldn't have blocked you in the first place. If he decided to make it a rule in between phases for whatever reasons, well I can't say how I would have reacted. But it is still wholly different to having a disagreement with a mod, and the mod going, "fine, if you don't like it I'm making a new rule" that just happens to target something you've done in the game.I don't think it was done just to spite you.
And I agree it would have been better to state this at the beginning of the game, but I don't think you can fault speed for not specifying this as a rule, because I don't think this has ever happened in a mafia game before. I usually don't highlight rules that I don't forsee becoming an issue either, it's more likely he didn't assume this would even happen, because it's a little crazy that it did happen...
As far as you and me...Yes, you've said a thousand times you have no ill will. It's not about your will, it about how, for whatever reason, how you argue ticks me off. Whether it just happens to be that way or whether you do it intentionally, I realize is immaterial. Point is, engaging with you was hurting my game play. So rather than continue to be tempted to engage with you, I decided to block you as a deliberate strategy to try and rebuild credibility in the game.Fair enough, but I think if you were up front about this from the get go people would be understanding of it. I mean blocking someone seems pretty serious, so it stands to reason that I said something that had personally offended you pretty badly.
So, yeah. Like I said. I am not going to play in a mafia community where this is even remotely acceptable and doesn't seem to bother anyone in the slightest.It's a pity you feel that way, but it's your decision. If you don't want to be apart of the community that's one thing, but removing the role list seems kind of like you are trying to punish us for a dis-agreement. Why do that?
Assuming you were objectively right here, and the mod did do something that was unnacceptable, I think you are over reacting to the way it should be handled. I don't boycott mods for doing something wrong, though I think in the heat of the moment I may have threatened to do so in the past.
Supas south park game for example I reacted that way, yet I've played in two supa games since then. Mharman also messed up bad in a game on DDO. I actually still don't sign up for his games, but I don't think he should be boycotted. Mafia isn't that serious. Well multi-accounting for mafia I do take offense to, but that is so rare it doesn't matter.We dis-agree about what constitutes as game talk, but even then you yourself are only saying I should be "reminded" so I think you agree that rules in mafia shouldn't be enforced with an iron fist. Why is speed an exception?
Sir objects now that I've explicitly made this a sticking point, but given a chance to respond initially, he was more concerned about grammar.
The grammar thing was a joke. The reason I didn't react until you made the rule a sticking point was because I didn't expect you to make a sticking point out of it.
Based off what I know, Speed probably shouldn't have done that. However, you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. You could have protested the rule immediately and talked through it with Speed. I think you know that he's not a bad or unreasonable person. He would have listened to you. You could have worked it out. Instead, you chose to delete your role list, threaten to leave the site, and throw around overgeneralized accusations about how people aren't supporting you.
Sure, Speed probably messed up. He's human. It happens. One mistake isn't enough cause for everyone to boycott his games; it's cause for him to improve how he mods games and be more careful rather than reacting in the heat of the moment.
Your accusations that people aren't supporting you because they aren't making a big stink about it are honestly ludicrous. I'm not trying to be mean or belittle your concerns. I get that you think you were treated unfairly and are mad. That's ok. But you are seriously overreacting here. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it either.
To be clarify my previous post, I think you're right that Speed was wrong to do that. I just disagree with your reaction to it.
He's all but admitted it:
I can and I do fault him. If only because there is no reason for it to be a rule and also because he explicitly did it in response to me arguing with him.
In the middle of the game that would have been counter productive and it got superceded by Speed's actions. Again, I just want to emphasize that Speed's is the greater offense here.
Because I'm not going to support a community that doesn't support me. First, the only person that actually seemed to give a shit was MisterChris who contacted me to see how I was doing. Second, the only person to actually see that the Speed created spite rules and speak out against it (without having to be argued to do so) is oro. I am truly shocked and disheartened that nobody sees this for the objectionable behavior that I see it as.
That's sure a nice soft ball to lob him there. But even if Speed comes in response to that and takes the bait and explicitly says it wasn't done in spite, there just is no other reasonable interpretation of the rule given the conversation we were having.
At least that's something. That's a reaction.
Because offenses of different levels of severity should be responded to with proportionate levels of reaction?
Usually, when someone is the target of a wrongful act the focus on the person who committed the wrongful act in telling them what they should have done differently.
And yet he hasn't given any indication that he thinks he's done anything wrong that needs improvement.
I wish I didn't have to convince people that this was a wrongful act or argue with people that this is something that should be reacted to and resisted.
But if this treatment is what is considered acceptable in Mafia games around here (and no one is saying it isn't)
then I don't want to play those Mafia games.
It'd be really nice if someone told that to him.
Speed, when you say "fair enough" I take it you agree that a mod shouldn't make a rule to spite another player, but you are saying you didn't do that correct? I think drafterman mis-interpreted this post, but I want to hear it from the horses mouth.
It was partly in spite, yes. I had been thinking of making the rule beforehand but decided to during the convo with drafter
I can understand being frustrated about people not seeing eye to eye on you with this, but to insinuate that people don't give a sh1t about you because of this is really just wrong. You are very loved and respected in the community regardless if people agree with you on every topic or not.I can use my recent interaction with the mods as an example here: I was pretty vocal about thinking the mods were wrong in regards to their decision about banning rationalmadman, someone who I don't even neccesarily like. I argued with them for a few days about it until ultimately they stopped responding and told me they were gonna do what they wanted to do regardless. My first impulse wasn't to say fvck everyone in the community then, I am leaving. I acknowledge that we don't see eye to eye on the issue but I ultimately was happy that they even listened to my appeal and talked to me about it. At the end of they day I know they are trying their best and it's impossible for them to get it right all the time. I don't think that they don't give a sh1t about me because they don't agree with me on this.Same with you. I guarantee you that if you messaged most of the mafia community and asked you what they thought of you, they would have nothing but good things to say about you. Hell, I think it's safe to say that mafia wouldn't even exist on this website without your efforts to revive it, same with your noob game initiative on DDO. You've done more for the mafia community than anyone else, so why abandon all of that because a few people dis-agree with you on one thing?
There was an issue that you created in the game where to players couldn't interact with each other. This isn't something that commonly occurs, and was a rule adjusted on the fly. You didn't like that rule and left. No one can force you to play if you don't want to, but I don't think his intention was to spite you or to "get one up on you" or anything like that, it was so that we can move forward with the game. Mods have made up rules on the fly in the past, it's not unreasonable they would have to do that when a new issue occurs that hasn't happened in the past.
Why would it have been counter productive? I actually think you being up front with that would have avoided the whole issue. In fact if you would have just told me that you would block me if I continued to say stuff that pissed you off, I would have respected that and requested out myself.
You are acting as if the issue doesn't have two debatable sides here, and I think that's a little silly. You aren't objectively right about this, and your mad that not everyone messaged to you and catered to your belief? I can understand being frustrated about people not seeing eye to eye on you with this, but to insinuate that people don't give a sh1t about you because of this is really just wrong. You are very loved and respected in the community regardless if people agree with you on every topic or not.
Same with you. I guarantee you that if you messaged most of the mafia community and asked you what they thought of you, they would have nothing but good things to say about you. Hell, I think it's safe to say that mafia wouldn't even exist on this website without your efforts to revive it, same with your noob game initiative on DDO. You've done more for the mafia community than anyone else, so why abandon all of that because a few people dis-agree with you on one thing? Also one 9 player game isn't the "whole mafia community". There's probably a lot of poeple who don't even know what happened, but are also being punished by you with you removing your guide and list that was a commonly used resource for both new and old players.
I doubt you care what I have to say, but I hope you take this advice with a grain of salt, if not now, maybe after calming down and reflecting: I really think you should re-consider leaving over this incident. You are well liked and respected here and have done great things for the community. If one person is making the game un fun for you, I am willing to take a break for a few games to let you play without worry of my "bickering ways" as oro calls them. I don't want to ruin your good time because of this. At the end of the day this doesn't have to be that serious unless we make it a serious thing.
A boycott is pretty extreme level of reaction, that even the worse mods don't get. Mharman literally rage threw a game because he was pissed, and even he still doesn't get boycotted.
