What would it take for Donald Trump to be a racist?

Author: Ragnar ,

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  • Ragnar
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    This is a question intended for Trump supporters. It is about proofs and standards of proof. Please note the question is just "racist," not "Literally Hitler."

    As an example, I'm a speciesist. This is evident by my consumption of cows, but not of dogs. I could apply the standard of restrictive consumption to any other person, and label them as positive or negative related to this test. If one test is insufficient, I could review other factors of comparative treatment.
  • Lemming
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    --> @Ragnar
    Simply by recognizing differences between races?
  • Ragnar
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    --> @Lemming
    I disagree with that standard.

    If someone recognizes that differences exist, and then declares one grouping is overall superior (or another inferior) based on those differences, that would cut it.
    And significant difference in fair/unfair treatment based on those differences, would certainly be indicative.
  • Lemming
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    --> @Ragnar
    I agree that my definition is probably too simply, but for whatever reason (I don't know why). It's what I addressed.

    Recognized differences, results in different treatment I'd argue.
    Doesn't matter if it was just something as superficial as the color of a car.
    People argue that certain color cars get pulled over more.
    Certain car colors are more in vogue, and thus more expensive than other colors.
    Just the color of a car is enough to start a myth about “drivers of red cars have to pay higher premiums”.

    Seems to me all the more, would peoples behavior change, if they believed certain races, by dint of genetics or culture, 'possessed differences from one another.
    . . .
    'Dint. . I've been using that recently a fair bit. Fun word.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Ragnar
    For him to declare any person is either qualified or incompetent in any way due to the color of their skin, regardless of any particular shade of skin.
  • Ragnar
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    --> @Lemming
    I'll agree with you that belief in race is on the slippery slope that can lead to overt racism.

    However, as with your car analogy, believing cars are painted different colors, differs from the orcish belief that Red Paint will make the car inherently go faster.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Greyparrot
    For him to declare any person is either qualified or incompetent in any way due to the color of their skin, regardless of any particular shade of skin.

    You mean by practicing affirmative action?
  • Lemming
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    However, as with your car analogy, believing cars are painted different colors, differs from the orcish belief that Red Paint will make the car inherently go faster.
    Heh, Warhammer.

    Alright then, more conventionally, I'd agree with what Greyparrot said earlier.
    For him to declare any person is either qualified or incompetent in any way due to the color of their skin, regardless of any particular shade of skin.

  • Greyparrot
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    You said it not me.
  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @Ragnar
    I would think to consider him or anyone a "racist", it isn't merely just holding a racist belief. To let that be a defining feature of you (to actually be a "racist"), you must allow it to guide your actions. So, if his policies had obvious racist intent, then I would say he is probably racist.

    Like not hiring someone because of race would make you a racist. Thinking that some race of candidate is less likely to be a good candidate (because of education statistics, culture, etc.), but then judging them fairly would mean that you are not racist.
  • Lemming
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    --> @Ragnar
    Was it racist and sexist of Biden, to make Kamala his running mate?
    Due to how he thought America would respond to that pick.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    Arguably Trump's support of HBCU's and Opportunity zones are borderline racist.
  • HistoryBuff
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    --> @bmdrocks21
    I would think to consider him or anyone a "racist", it isn't merely just holding a racist belief. To let that be a defining feature of you (to actually be a "racist"), you must allow it to guide your actions.
    saying something racist is an action. 

    Like not hiring someone because of race would make you a racist. 
    trump illegally lied to black people to keep them from living in his buildings. That seems to easily meet your definition. 
  • oromagi
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    RACISM is the belief that groups of humans possess different behavioral traits corresponding to physical appearance and can be divided based on the superiority of one race over another.

    My observation is that everybody is racist to some degree.

    So when the immortal Bob sings:

    Disillusioned words like bullets bark
    As human gods aim for their mark
    Made everything from toy guns that spark
    To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark
    It's easy to see without looking too far
    That not much is really sacred

    "flesh-colored Christ" is meant to evoke a pinky peachy color- what white people call" white."  Therein lies the claim of superiority, right?  Sure, flesh comes in many mottled variations between brown and pink but only one of those variations, the color most closely associated with northern Europeans' skin gets to be "flesh-colored" exactly and therefore the "correct" color of flesh  Consider the domination asserted in that single adjective: flesh-colored.

    "but that's not the color of my skin" says all but a small global minority.

    "never mind" says the small minority, "we are the ones who decide what colors are called."

    Such assertions, such small but profound acts of domination are so pervasive that even Dylan drops a little racism in his most famous critique of Capitalism.

    So if Bob is racist and I am racist, I think it is almost impossible not to presume Trump is racist, too.

    "Although the masters make the rules
    For the wise men and the fools
    I got nothing, Ma, to live up to"


  • zedvictor4
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    --> @Ragnar
    We all recognize differences..... But this does not necessarily prejudice us......This would depend greatly upon our formative conditioning, and so I would confidently conclude that Donald Trump was probably and unavoidably conditioned to be prejudiced.....We can certainly modify our behaviour in response to a changing and more tolerant society, but it is difficult to re-programme our underlying influences completely.





  • Death23
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    --> @Ragnar
    Prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

  • bmdrocks21
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    --> @HistoryBuff
    saying something racist is an action. 
    Actions speak louder than words. All he does is pander to minorities.

    trump illegally lied to black people to keep them from living in his buildings. That seems to easily meet your definition. 
    This is a question about Trump as president. You are referencing a 1973 lawsuit that was settled out of court. Are we assuming that everyone is static and that nobody can change opinions or attitudes after almost 50 years?
  • Greyparrot
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    Are we assuming that everyone is static and that nobody can change opinions or attitudes after almost 50 years?

    According to Critical Race Theory, having white skin makes you an unconscious racist at all points of your life.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Death23
  • Ragnar
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    --> @Greyparrot
    According to Critical Race Theory, having white skin makes you an unconscious racist at all points of your life.
    When interpreted that way (yes, as many well educated people seriously do...), you can just call it racism leading toward a final solution.
  • Greyparrot
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    --> @Ragnar
    Also when considering yourself a speciest, there can be no exemptions. For example, Hitler would never have knowingly allowed a Jew to serve as part of his cabinet under any circumstance, as you would never knowingly decide to eat roast dog.
  • Death23
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    --> @Greyparrot
    Eh, the incidents were all sourced and I remember most of them. It didn't look like fake news. Trump's probably racist. I don't really see any point in denying it. I mean, the more interesting conversation would be what the impact of it is, and I think it's along the same lines as the impact racism in the GoP has long had. It's generally policies that are bad for the poor are supported because if something's bad for the poor then it's bad for blacks. It gets wrapped up in libertarian nonsense and other sophistries for political reasons.
  • Ragnar
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    --> @Greyparrot
    I used speciesist as an extreme analogy to compare to racism. ... Granted, Hitler would fit that as he considered Jews to be sub-human; so anyone speciesist against any other group of humans, is definitely also racist against them.

    Weirdly, Hitler was a vegetarian. Presumably, he did not want animals to suffer, and yet loved the idea of humans suffering as much as possible.
  • Greyparrot
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    I'm sure anyone with a biased opinion can document that opinion well.

    Because that's all these "incidents" really are, documented opinions to the intent and the overt psychic mindreading of the president absent of the documentation of the like of Mein Kampf expressing Trump's beliefs on race. 

    All properly "fact-checked" as politically correct opinions of course.

    Wikipedia and the MSM have collected a few negative statements about "they" and "them" and it's up in the air what Trump is really talking about. Is he talking about Criminals that happen to have  Black skin or is he saying all people with Black skin are Criminals? Who knows? it's not documented. It's left to a politically correct interpretation.

    For example, we know clearly that David Duke and Richard Spencer are racists because we have documentation, not guesswork opinions.


  • Ragnar
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    Trump's probably racist. I don't really see any point in denying it. 
    I started this thread after talking to a couple Trump supporters who absurdly denied there is any possibility of their hero having something negative about him. One of them when unable to invalidate a Hitler comparison, responded by declaring that just meant Hitler could likewise not be racist.

    I remember the closing of a classic real world debate about Atheism vs. Christianity, in which the final question was something like 'what would it take for you to change sides?' To which one side proudly proclaimed insanity, while the other was just 'show me evidence of...' (paraphrased).