The fundamental problem with capitalism (as described by Bo Burnham

Author: secularmerlin ,

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  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @fauxlaw
    Stop depending on it. It's not their job. Show me where it is mandated to them.
    Do you believe in a right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    Best method would just be encouraging of ethical and moral 'good amongst people low and high, I'd think. And regulations to restrain greed.
    Here's how you "fix" capitalism.

    If people are starving, they'll work in unsafe conditions at unfulfilling jobs.

    This is called "wage slavery".

    This is also why "capitalists" hate "welfare" so much.  Poor and desperate people will work for scraps and don't expect "benefits".

    (IFF) people were guaranteed a modest and safe life (food, clothing, shelter) (THEN) people would refuse to work for abusive employers in unsafe conditions at unfulfilling jobs UNLESS THEY WERE WELL COMPENSATED.

    NO GOVERNMENT REGULATION NEEDED.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @3RU7AL
    I am talking about charitable giving, and you throw me an industrial fire, with complaint about wages. I don't see the connection, and will not ask for one. I doubt one exists. Try stayng on point.
  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    (IFF) people were guaranteed a modest and safe life (food, clothing, shelter)
    'That sounds like government regulation to me.
    Though I suppose a workers union might manage such themselves, still, laws seem to pop up, and if laws are going to be there, better they lean a way we like.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Lemming
    What is the point of a government regulation? In a perfect world what should it do?
  • Lemming
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    --> @secularmerlin
    I don't believe in a perfect world.
    Except for an odd side idea of this being the best of all possible worlds for 'me, by virtue, I wouldn't be 'me without everything that's happened in my life.
    Though it's not a side idea I take very seriously, just one I had 2 or 3 years ago when I read Candide by Voltaire.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    Ok, perhaps "perfection" is too restrictive.

    Can you please provide a "rough sketch" of your general political framework?

    Or perhaps just a few key "improvements" you'd like to see implemented?
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    That sounds like government regulation to me.
    In this proposal, there would be ZERO regulation of BUSINESS (specifically).
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @fauxlaw
    I am talking about charitable giving, and you throw me an industrial fire, with complaint about wages. I don't see the connection, and will not ask for one. I doubt one exists. Try stayng on point.
    This is only one tiny example of exactly how "charitable" a corporation is when they are "free from regulation".

    There is no reason to try and resort to "hypotheticals".

    Just glance over a few pages of history.
  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    If people are 'guaranteed something.
    Then it implies 'someone is guaranteeing it.

    I'm fairly weak on knowledge of government and economics.
    I suppose that people forming Unions is good.
    The breaking of Monopolies seems good.

    I don't have much of a political framework, well thought out I think.
    I like tradition.
    I like freedom.
    I like limited government.
    I like benevolent laws, but again, 'limited laws.
    I think communities should solve their own problems, and not blame others, or beg help so much.
    I like a balanced amount of economic imports and exports.
    I think America should expand more, less our culture be swallowed. By that I mean an immigration policy the same as economic policy.
    I think guns are a right, to the able and the proven.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    I think communities should solve their own problems, and not blame others, or beg help so much.
    So would you say you're pro-self-reliance and anti-FEMA?
  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
    I figure if communities gave more effort, care, and planning. . They wouldn't 'need the government so much.
    If the heating is out in a school, or it doesn't have much money, what type of community is it, that can't look after itself, or has 'NO members of the community able or willing to solve the problem themselves.

    Not that I'm one for community or charity work myself.
    Just seems to me, people sometimes, perhaps often, have themselves to blame for their circumstance.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Lemming
    I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
    I figure if communities gave more effort, care, and planning. . They wouldn't 'need the government so much.
    If the heating is out in a school, or it doesn't have much money, what type of community is it, that can't look after itself, or has 'NO members of the community able or willing to solve the problem themselves.

    Not that I'm one for community or charity work myself.
    Just seems to me, people sometimes, perhaps often, have themselves to blame for their circumstance
    Communities that are economically disadvantaged are by definition less able to be 'self reliant'. Does that mean that people in poorer areas are less deserving of education, heat and food? Is deciding whose 'fault' it is that some areas are disadvantaged really more important than finding some solution to the problem?

    Also you never answered my question. What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
  • Lemming
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    --> @secularmerlin
    What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
    I don't know. But I'll offer, express the will of the people.
    (Edit) - Perhaps as well regulation for the good of the people, despite their will at times. Though 'careful on that one.

    Communities that are economically disadvantaged are by definition less able to be 'self reliant'. Does that mean that people in poorer areas are less deserving of education, heat and food? Is deciding whose 'fault' it is that some areas are disadvantaged really more important than finding some solution to the problem?
    I do not believe that communities should be 'discriminated against.
    I believe that it is in the interest of communities to help one another, for net gain.
    The solution, sometimes, feels obvious.

    Understanding that one's circumstance rests within our own hands, should give rise to effort, I say.
    Rather than being a 'victim of circumstance.
    My second brother is a drug addict and a bum, one could argue that his circumstances led to this, that it is not important to place the blame on him, but instead to seek ways to help him.
    But I say people should be aware of themselves and their 'own power to endure life, to change it.
    It 'IS, my second brothers fault that he is the way he is.
    And he 'Deserves such circumstance, so far as any person 'can deserve their circumstance.

    We've talked about free will before, and causation.
    But without personal 'Responsibility, what becomes of people?

    I am saddened by my brothers circumstance, and when I speak of deserve, I mean that more in the sense, that you get what you give.
    It's just being practical.
    To say a person deserves, is to say what occurs.
    . . .
    . . .
    Perhaps, I'm not set on such an interpretation. But I am a fan of Ego, Pride, Self Worth.
  • secularmerlin
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    --> @Lemming
    What does a 'good' government regulation look like?
    I don't know. But I'll offer, express the will of the people.
    What if the will of the people is heinous as it was in the southern states before the civil war? Is a government regulation that informs and enforces the will of the people to be prejudiced a 'good' regulation?
  • Lemming
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    --> @secularmerlin
    Seems to me government is the expression of the people, for good or ill.
    Government is a tool, an expression, an avatar.
    To express 'what the people are, is it's nature.
    This may be a tyrant, or a democracy.
    Slaves, or Freemen.

    That we should want the Government to be 'good, is an expression of our nature.
    But in the end, the government is a tool.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    I 'am Pro Self Reliance, though I don't disagree with Federal Aid/Funding/Emergency Relief.
    WTF.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    I do not believe that communities should be 'discriminated against.
    I believe that it is in the interest of communities to help one another, for net gain.
    The solution, sometimes, feels obvious.
    (IFF) you have not the skill or the resources to GROW AND GATHER YOUR OWN FOOD (THEN) it doesn't matter how much "good will" your "community" has, you will be required to beg, bully, and or steal to survive.

    This is what was done to the Lakota.

    All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.

    They didn't want cash-religion-of-money-token$.

    They didn't want "free" (dogfood) hand-outs.

    They didn't want "disaster relief".

    They didn't want "education" (brainwashing and cultural annihilation).

    All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.

    All they wanted from "the government" was to be left alone.
  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    I don't see a problem with the Government helping people out if it's able.
    Though I think people should be able to help themselves out.

    The American people 'are the American government.
    If a city possesses a Mayor, Police. It possesses government.

    I am not familiar with the details of the Lakota's struggle.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    Seems to me government is the expression of the people, for good or ill.
    Government is a tool, an expression, an avatar.
    I WISH.

  • Lemming
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    --> @3RU7AL
    If the government is corrupt, or the government a yoke upon the people.
    Then this too, represents the people of that nation, and their nature.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    I don't see a problem with the Government helping people out if it's able.
    MORAL HAZARD.


    After a storm "the government" pays the wealthy hotel owners to "rebuild" (over and over and over and over again).

    They also maintain the beautiful beaches (with your tax dollars).

    Ask yourself WHY your taxes are paying for private security for airports?

    Ask yourself WHY your taxes are paying for private air-traffic-controllers?

    How much do you think a plane ticket would cost if they had to pay for their own security and their own logistics??
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @Lemming
    If the government is corrupt, or the government a yoke upon the people.
    Then this too, represents the people of that nation, and their nature.
    Well stated.

    "the people" are like sleeping children.
  • 3RU7AL
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    --> @secularmerlin
    What if the will of the people is heinous as it was in the southern states before the civil war? Is a government regulation that informs and enforces the will of the people to be prejudiced a 'good' regulation?
    Actually yes.

    If a county or a state wants to allow certain behavior within their jurisdiction, no matter how "morally repugnant" that behavior is to "outsiders" they must be free to exercise their sovereignty WITHIN their territorial borders.

    When that behavior crosses county lines, it becomes a STATE concern.

    When that behavior crosses state lines, it becomes a FEDERAL concern.
  • fauxlaw
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    --> @3RU7AL
    Just glance over a few pages of history.
    I have a PhD in history, my friend. You don't need to lecture. You?

    History says, even after 50 years of OSHA regulation, that the leading cause of worker death is motor vehicle accidents, and the majority of those is driver error. Next is falls, and the leading cause of that is worker error. That's history. Industry has been fighting against worker irresponsibility since the industrial revolution. Highest issue: training retention. You can lead a horse to water...