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@fauxlaw
Callous? I think the callouses cover your eyes and ears. Wake up.
Personally I think the attitude of "Just live with it" in response to a pandemic is reasonably callous yes.
You really want to vote for Hidin’ Biden?
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@dustryder
I live with risks every day with a smile. How about you?
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@dustryder
"Just live with it"
So it is no longer "People are learning to live with it," but is a more subjective "Just live with it?" You cannot correct me, then make a similar misquote. But, if you're happier with "People are learning to die with it," and accept Biden's "Dark winter," be my guest. I'm certainly not stopping you. Pessimism is an approach, but it is not mine, andf appears Grayparrot agrees with my more positive position. Wring your hands, or put them to work to help.
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@fauxlaw
It is better to light a candle than to curse the Dark Winter.
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@fauxlaw
So it is no longer "People are learning to live with it," but is a more subjective "Just live with it?" You cannot correct me, then make a similar misquote.
I wasn't quoting him, but summing up his general callous attitude. I think "Just live with it" is fairly reasonable given his encouragement of opening up the economy.
Pessimism is an approach, but it is not mine, andf appears Grayparrot agrees with my more positive position. Wring your hands, or put them to work to help.
It's one thing to make the most out of a poor situation. It is another to recognise the realities of the situation.
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@dustryder
It is another to recognise the realities of the situation.
Everyone knows the risks of Covid and the realities of the misery of Lockdowns. Unless you have been hiding in a bunker.
The Cure cannot be worse than the disease. It's the main reason why people in fracking swingstates flip the bird at Biden's 100 trillion dollar curative plan to defuel America just so China can feel good about emitting 3 times the CO2 of America. You better have a more compelling reason why Global warming and Covid justify all that bullshit.
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@Greyparrot
The Cure cannot be worse than the disease.
I don't disagree. However at this time, the virus is continuing to spread and has continued to spread for more than half a year.
So the question is, is the cure (a sufficiently long lockdown period followed by aggressive contact tracing) actually worse than the previous months of the disease and future months more?
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@dustryder
Good question. Did a complete lockdown help Spain (a country purported to have the most draconian lockdown policies) as far as death rates go?
Did Countries with no Lockdown have significantly higher death rates than Spain?
That's how you decide if the Disease justifies the draconian Cure.
Spain has 35,000 deaths (just a tad bit more than New York)
With a population of 47,431,256. compared to 328,239,523 Americans. 1/7 the population. 7 times 35000 = 243,670 extrapolated Spanish Covid Deaths adjusting for population.
Americans that know this know the risks of Covid and the realities of Lockdowns.
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@Greyparrot
It would certainly be interesting to examine why countries that implemented lockdowns failed to contain the disease. But in theory, a well implemented and adhered to quarantine is an absolute defence against the spread of disease.
If you only strive for the results found on the bottom rung of the ladder, sure, the cure may arguably not justify the disease. But then you have cases such as New Zealand and Korea. In those countries, the "cure" was obviously better than the disease so perhaps aim for that bar?
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@dustryder
Or, alternatively, perhaps the cure is a lot less about lockdowns and quarantines for people not at risk and a lot more about quarantining and protecting at-risk people.
Something New York obviously did not do. It's an important distinction.
Shutting down schools was a retarded placebo. It absolutely contributed to the unnaturally extended flu season.
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@Greyparrot
Depends what you're aiming for. If it's strictly the amount of deaths, sure. But reducing deaths is not equivalent to the normalcy you get from a well-implemented lockdown right?
Because you still have the disease rampaging throughout the country. You wouldn't be able to travel anywhere without being a pariah. Even if you aren't at risk, you aren't immune from the disease. Long term impacts of even mild cases still haven't been fully examined. And of course, at risk people form a significant amount of the population so when will they come out of quarantine if ever?
As an aside because you mentioned the flu, I don't know if you've heard, but New Zealand has near eliminated the flu as a consequence of the covid-19 lockdown.
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@dustryder
I repeat:
Trump shutdown travel from China and Europe within 10 days of the first US virus case.
Trump encouraged response from private industry to manufacture ventilators, masks, and protection for front-line health workers.
Trump initiated daily update news conferences to keep us informed.
Trump distributed a four-phase attack and recovery stategy
Trump accelerated the effort to achieve a vaccine in record time.
Trump provided emergency tents for Covid treatment.
Trump dispatched two retrofitted hospital ships to NYC and LA.
Callous? I think the callouses cover your eyes and ears. Wake up.
These accomplishments may be the crux of Biden's plan, but Trump has already done them. Biden repeats them as if they have not yet been done. Can't he think of something original?
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@fauxlaw
Personally I think the attitude of "Just live with it" in response to a pandemic is reasonably callous yes. I'm not sure why a list of bare minimum actions changes this.
Let's look at Biden's stated goals for his presidency:
eliminate business activity to stop Covid
eliminate oil & nat gas in favor of wind/solar
eliminate the border wall to allow free flow of immigrants
eliminate Trump tax breaks, plus raise taxes to pay for the above resolutions
eliminate the Court that has been consistently 9 justices for 152 years
eliminate the sunshine to have a dark winter
Sounds like Hidin' Biden is getting a lot of practice eliminating by staying in the basement. Hope the toilet doesn't back-up.
To bad his candidate predecessor didn't just eliminate Trump, and his cohorts have failed to do so, since.
Maybe Biden should start giving a positive message, for a change. We haven't heard of a positive message since "Hope and change," which certainly changed a lot, but didn't do much for hope. Democrats just don't know how to deal with good news.
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@fauxlaw
I'm not going to lie, you sound rather deranged when you talk in such hyperboles and constantly shift topic to Biden.
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@dustryder
As an aside because you mentioned the flu, I don't know if you've heard, but New Zealand has near eliminated the flu as a consequence of the covid-19 lockdown.
It's a morbid thing to study since researchers believe most of the people who would have died from the flu are dying from Covid before the flu can take hold.
Sadly, Cancer and heart disease still makes Covid look like kiddie land.
3 million Americans died every year without a passing mention before the media decided to instruct us to be paralytically afraid of 200,000 Covid deaths.
4 million people are born every year in America without a single happy mention from the media either.
Perspective isn't rational or necessary if you are trusting the corporate media to do your personal risk assessment for you. And there are certainly no shortages of sycophants to the American Tech Giants.
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@dustryder
You will notice that this thread is mine, and the subject is Biden. Rather deranged? Only to people who don't pay attention. Simple matter of knowing where you are.
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@fauxlaw
If the conversation is about whether or not Trump was callous towards Covid-19, and then you randomly switch topics to Biden's positions when that topic was never previously breached, that's one thing.
But when you then conjure up random strawman Biden positions?
Deranged.
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@Greyparrot
It's true that heart disease and cancer are much more severe threats, however there are several differences here that justify the response over Covid-19
1. Heart disease and cancer aren't contagious. So ordinary people can go about their lives without the threat of being impacted by heart disease and cancer from other people
2. Linked to 1, heart disease and cancer are fairly well understood in comparison to Covid-19. It's not the best idea to let something rampage through society without knowing the full extent of long term impacts.
3. Linked to 3, because they are well understood, we already have solutions for them. We have done what we can for those particular conditions. In comparison, there is an absolute defence against contagious disease propagation which has been ignored, so clearly more can be done in that regard.
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@dustryder
We have done what we can for those particular conditions.
Funny thing is, the best cures for Heart disease is also the best defense for Covid. Funny how that works. Diet. Exercise, manage your health risks, live a less stressful life ignoring what CNN demands you to get stressed out over. Those things.
heart disease and cancer are fairly well understood in comparison to Covid-19. It's not the best idea to let something rampage through society without knowing the full extent of long term impacts.
An absolutely rational approach. The vast majority had no problems with a lockdown till about May when the numbers were available to better evaluate death risks, at-risk groups, and also better evaluate hospital surges. To know who really needed hospital care and who could go home and fight it off.
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@Greyparrot
Funny thing is, the best cures for Heart disease is also the best defense for Covid. Funny how that works. Diet. Exercise, manage your health risks, live a less stressful life ignoring what CNN demands you to get stressed out over. Those things.
Those certainly reduce risk, but obviously the best defence is to not get it at all. Because reducing risks are not a guarantee and regardless of what you do, risks associated with age will always be prevalent to some degree.
An absolutely rational approach. The vast majority had no problems with a lockdown till about May when the numbers were available to better evaluate death risks, at-risk groups, and also better evaluate hospital surges. To know who really needed hospital care and who could go home and fight it off.
This is a good argument as to why the views of the vast majority are irrelevant in such specialised matters. Obviously people generally aren't concerned with the health of the nation as a whole. Nor are they well-informed of the long term impacts of a disease.
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@dustryder
but obviously the best defence is to not get it at all.
You can literally claim that for all of the .1% chance things out in the world that can kill you. That doesn't mean people are not motivated to make a judgement call between risk mitigation and opportunities to enjoy the limited years they have on Earth.
There's a reason kids choose to ignore their parents and authorities admonitions when they come of age.
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@Greyparrot
I'm not criticising individuals. While I think those who think that a month lockdown is worse than many months more of an epidemic are shortsighted dumbasses, ultimately if they don't have the framework or leadership it's hardly their fault. I'm criticising the government. I don't think the government should bend over for the whims of selfish individuals when it's a matter of public health.
While I think those who think that a month lockdown is worse...
How about 12 months of lockdown?
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@dustryder
If the conversation is about whether or not Trump was callous towards Covid-19
If? Sorry, that "if" is not the thrust of this thread. Read my post #1. Yes, there are a couple of mentions of Covid, but neither from a Trump perspective. This thread is Biden, Biden, Biden [as initiator of the thread, that's my call]. If you want to make it about Trump, that's your choice, but do not impose your choices on me.
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@Greyparrot
Unnecessary for any disease.
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@fauxlaw
As the thread creator, you set the initial conversation topic. However you have no say over how conversations evolve within a thread. And if a conversation devolves into whether powdered donuts or glazed donuts are better, it is one thing to rightfully call out such a conversation as off topic, it is another to randomly spout out false Biden strawmans like a unsocialised retard.
Hence deranged
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@dustryder
Hence deranged
Your powdered vs glazed donuts, notwithstanding, you will note that my last two posts offered a list of what Trump has done with Covid 19 [not just said what he would do, which is all Hidin' Biden can do, since he hasn't shown a propensity to do much over his 47-year career [look at his Senate experience in proposing bills, let alone his voting record. I have. Have you?]. The last post listed what Biden has said he will eliminate. A rather negative guy, in my view. So, lets not bitch about my taking the recent conversation on a one-way track. yeah?