I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

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11.12.2020 09:34AM

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@Mopac

For the record, the bible doesn't say to murder. Murder is an unlawful killing.

That's correct. It is a penalty of death for being what you are and made by god , no less! But god never made anything bad at all in the world according to Christians. Except for the earth for instance. It has and always will be an unstable planet and becomes more unstable as it moves through the solar system and when it comes into close proximity with other planets. We know that the movements of the other planets have an adverse effect on our own planet causing the deaths of millions, AND SO Did those controlling priests of old, didn't they?

Indeed it was much more simpler then in past times of ignorance and fear,when priests faced less doubt and opposition to totally control a persons daily life not to mention to enable them to extort ones hard earned earthly goods.

The laws in the bible that prescribe these punishments had to do with the secular government of the Hebrew people.

But Christianity had adopted this god creator of all things and adopted all those words that "he breathed into the book" that causes no one to do anything, according to some , well one that I know of. So by adopting an ancient vile , jealous warmongering god from a culture that they know absolutely nothing about is the burden they must bare . (maybe for their sins, who knows?)

That being the case, executing sodomites was a lawful thing,

Was it a law that you agreed with?

Capital punishment.

Which is still a strict a command all the same and from the same ancient god.

God and homosexuality has been done many times on this forum and is all you will ever get is Christians dancing around the obvious and denying that their god would sanction such a punishment. Such as here #9 and here #22 where we have in one case a qualified Pastor and Chaplin telling us that god actually loves you and doesn't actaully want you dead even though your are an "abomination " in his loving eyes. Christians will even deny these verse actually mean what they say and will rewrite them in the hope of playing down such barbarity . Or to mean the act is much worse that simply engaging in a homosexual act.

It is just as well that you have distinguished between murder and a sanctioned execution. But your mistake was asking the wrong question in this particular case.

You should asked the more posing question of "would you EXUCUTE me as per your gods commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "

The fact is GOD! - in his own words - finds you "an abomination"! Leviticus 18:22. And because you are an "abomination in his eyes", you are to be put to death. That is the strict command of the Christian god, no matter how much they want to deny he would order such a barbaric punishment.

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11.12.2020 09:45AM

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@MisterChris

If god told me to do anything, I'd have a heart attack and die from surprise

So would I especially if I ended up in "heaven"!

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11.12.2020 10:13AM

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@SirAnonymous

Levitical Law does not apply to Christians

Why ever not?

because Christ fulfilled the law with His death (see Romans 3-4 and Hebrews 7).

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17

This does not mean that homosexuality isn't a sin, although it does mean that we aren't commanded to execute gay people.

Is this the typical biblical rewrite we have come to expect from Christians trying to defend the indefensible. Try reading Leviticus 20:13

" abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Your gods command is clear.

we all deserve death according to the Bible. [.........] we learn that everyone is a sinner. [.........]the penalty for sin is death. In short, you deserve death. So do I. So does everyone. Your question is somewhat misleading because it singles out gay people. The Bible doesn't single anyone out; it tells us that we're all guilty and deserving of death.

This is typical playing down the punishment that simply doesn't fit the crime? This is you simply saying were are all sinners and will all going to die and that we are all in this together while ignoring the bleeding' obvious difference THAT one death is INTENTIONALY terminated before time while another can live a long healthy life. But you simply want to swerve that fact , don't you. You are just another arrogant Christian that believes anyone not religious is simply backward and uneducated without morals and principles or integrity that won't see the obvious flaw in your stupid argument.

Your question is somewhat misleading because it singles out gay people.

Yes, it singles homosexuals out. It singles them out for the death penalty. i.e an early death. There is nothing misleading about it.

Another related point is that the Bible condemns extrajudicial killings.

That's right because that would be murder. We are talking execution here, the purposely intended ending of ones life prematurely and on the order of a RELIGIOUS court that follow the commands and the law of GOD. Your god. Stop trying to bat this vile practice away as if it has nothing to you with god or religion or YOU! YOU adopted this god and his punishments, warts an -all.

Thus, if I were to hear some voice tell me to go murder that person,

Most of us reading here understand perfectly well that we are not talking murder, but execution, the taking of ones life prematurely.

Thus, if I were to hear some voice tell me to go murder that person, I would immediately know that it wasn't from God because God condemns murder.

And what if your god told you to "execute" someone for being say.... homosexual? As per his commands at Leviticus 20:13 . Or even Leviticus 20:9.

I am waiting for that big swerve now.

#34

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11.12.2020 10:40AM

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@Tradesecret

But God would not tell an individual to put to death another person. He might well tell the State to.

Yes well I believe that most reading here understand this is what is meant. God lays down the law. The accused is tried by the priests in a religious court and sentence is handed down. and if the accused is found to have committed the "abomination" of an homosexual act, s/he is to be sentenced to death and executed..

So you wriggle on this bs line for as long as you like but the commandments written into law and into your book by "the breath of god" is gods law according to your own scriptures.

And Jesus said : “If you love me, you will keep my commandments".

#35

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11.12.2020 10:48AM

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@Intelligence_06

Can someone who has more guts than me tell BrotherD to leave? He is being hateful to everything.

Yes well I have noticed that it is becoming common practice these days to accuse anyone telling the truth or stating facts- in this case biblical facts- to be accuse of "hate speech".

Tell me, is quoting "hateful" verses from the bible " hate speech"? Take this as an example : " Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".

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11.12.2020 10:54AM

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@Theweakeredge

I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

It is just as well that you have distinguished between murder and a sanctioned execution. But your mistake was asking the wrong question in this particular case.

You should asked the more posing question of "would you EXUCUTE me as per your gods commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "

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11.12.2020 11:45AM

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@Stephen

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks

I don’t see the reason that this exists.

#38

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@Intelligence_06

Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks
I don’t see the reason that this exists.

But exist it does, and in those very "god breathed" scriptures that theist stand by. Psalm 137:9

And you forget answer my question. Why?

Tell me, is quoting "hateful" verses from the bible " hate speech"?

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11.12.2020 11:56AM

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@Stephen

Yes. No matter who said it, hateful language is hateful.

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11.12.2020 12:03PM

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@Intelligence_06

Yes. No matter who said it, hateful language is hateful.

Well then you are saying that the bible can never be challenged. You too are a fkn coward that would rather deny and ignore facts as "hateful" as they are.

Tell me. How would one challenge this vile verse without highlighting it?

How would one challenged the death penalty verses concerning homosexuality without highlighting these passages in the scriptures?

You just want to close down all fkn discussion and debate for no other reason than YOU believe it to be "hate speech" to highlight them. "intelligence " my arse! 6 maybe?

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11.12.2020 12:51PM

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@Stephen

Well if it is hateful then we should challenge it or ignore it.

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11.12.2020 01:32PM

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@Stephen

Nothing a god commands arbitrarily is justified -

1. You would have to demonstrate that a god would have a moral authority independent from his mind

2. That god is actually using that moral authority whenever he commands to kill

Furthermore, you seem to be confused, the laws of the time were all either influenced or commanded by god

Finally because god is innocent of having the moral authority to order anything until he is proven guilty of having moral authority, anything she then orders would not be executed, even if they were going off the laws, that isn't what I asked. I asked, if your god told me to murder me, would you? It seems people are missing the point of such a question.

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#43

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11.12.2020 01:41PM

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@SirAnonymous

So god has never commanded death? I suppose you've never read the old testament

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11.12.2020 02:05PM

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11.12.2020 02:05PM

My god would not tell me to murder anyone

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11.12.2020 02:07PM

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@Vader

Who is your god?

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11.12.2020 02:09PM

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@Theweakeredge

The Christian God, which tells me not to murder under the 10 commandments proclaimed

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11.12.2020 02:16PM

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@Theweakeredge

So god has never commanded death?

That isn't what I said. I said that God cannot command murder. Death and murder are not the same thing.

I suppose you've never read the old testament

I've read the entire Bible cover to cover multiple times and continue to read it cover to cover on a regular basis.

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11.12.2020 02:26PM

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@Vader

And what of the times he commands death?

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11.12.2020 02:27PM

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@SirAnonymous

She has no moral authority, therefore she commanding murder similar to a mob boss

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Mopac

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Mopac

11.12.2020 02:42PM

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@Stephen

Context is everything Stephen.

Christians are not commanded to kill all the butt lovers. Don't worry, you are safe...

...for now.

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11.12.2020 02:44PM

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@Theweakeredge

God demands just execution, not murder.

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11.12.2020 03:02PM

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@Stephen

Why ever not?

"because Christ fulfilled the law with His death (see Romans 3-4 and Hebrews 7)."

Romans 3:20

"20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin."

You can see in this verse that no one can be justified through following the law.

Romans 3:21-22a

"21 But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

You can see in these verses that we are justified by faith, not by the law.

Hebrews 7:11-12

"11 If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood—and indeed the law given to the people established that priesthood—why was there still need for another priest to come, one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also." (emphasis mine)

Here is a statement that the law must be changed.

Hebrews 7:18-19

"18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God."

And here it is said explicitly. The former regulation - the law - has been set aside. Christians are not under the old covenant of the law, but under the new covenant - the better hope.

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17

This is why Tradesecret is continually telling you to put things in context. When you take verses out of context, you can make them say almost anything. But let's see what happens when that verse is put in context.

Matthew 5:17-18

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." (emphasis mine)

Christ here is saying that He will fulfill the law and that it won't pass away until everything is accomplished. He fulfilled the law and accomplished everything on the cross. So it would seem that He isn't saying what you're trying to make Him say.

Is this the typical biblical rewrite we have come to expect from Christians trying to defend the indefensible. Try reading Leviticus 20:13
" abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Your gods command is clear.

I have read it. In fact, I referenced it in my post when I said that it is true that homosexuality was a capital crime under the law. However, I am not rewriting the Bible when I say that verse doesn't apply to Christians. In fact, as demonstrated by the verse from Romans and Hebrews, I'm reaching that conclusion based on things that the Bible says rather explicitly.

This is typical playing down the punishment that simply doesn't fit the crime?

It doesn't fit the crime according to you. You are not an objective lawgiver. You are not a supreme authority on justice. You have no objective laws or a supreme authority to appeal to. Thus, it doesn't make an ounce of difference whether you think it fits the crime or not. According to God, who is an objective lawgiver and a supreme authority on justice, every sin is deserving of death.

This is you simply saying were are all sinners and will all going to die and that we are all in this together while ignoring the bleeding' obvious difference THAT one death is INTENTIONALY terminated before time while another can live a long healthy life.

I ignored it so much that I even mentioned that homosexuality was a capital crime under the law in my post. Every sin deserves death. At the same time, some sins are worse than others. You're free to disagree that homosexuality is a serious sin, but, unless you have an objective reason to disagree, your opinion doesn't mean much.

You are just another arrogant Christian that believes anyone not religious is simply backward and uneducated without morals and principles or integrity that won't see the obvious flaw in your stupid argument.

Meh.

Yes, it singles homosexuals out. It singles them out for the death penalty. i.e an early death. There is nothing misleading about it.

It also tells us that everyone's sins deserve death. If God wanted to, He could kill us all and would be justified in doing so.

We are talking execution here... Most of us reading here understand perfectly well that we are not talking murder, but execution, the taking of ones life prematurely.

According to the OP, we're talking about murder, so that's what I replied to.

And what if your god told you to "execute" someone for being say.... homosexual? As per his commands at Leviticus 20:13 . Or even Leviticus 20:9.

You mean those commands that the Bible explicitly says don't apply to Christians, because the former regulation has been set aside?

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11.12.2020 03:04PM

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@Theweakeredge

She has no moral authority, therefore she commanding murder similar to a mob boss

You could at least refer to God by His preferred pronouns.

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11.12.2020 03:14PM

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@SirAnonymous

According to the bible, God has no gender the authors of the bible assumed god was a male due to patriarchy, we actually have no idea whether god is a male or female, therefore as in their characteristics are what the bible also defines as motherly, i think she is the closest we can get to god's preferred pronoun.

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11.12.2020 03:17PM

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@Theweakeredge

According to the bible, God has no gender

That is true.

the authors of the bible assumed god was a male due to patriarchy, we actually have no idea whether god is a male or female, therefore as in their characteristics are what the bible also defines as motherly, i think she is the closest we can get to god's preferred pronoun.

That is not. Jesus explicitly refers to God as the Father multiple times.

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11.12.2020 03:25PM

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@SirAnonymous

Why does Jesus know? Why does Jesus know god at all? He claims to know god, but we should interest Jesus's knowledge just as the humans, until otherwise is demonstrated. He is nothing but a prophet, and it still hits on the patriarchy point from before, that's all

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11.12.2020 03:54PM

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@Theweakeredge

Furthermore, you seem to be confused, the laws of the time were all either influenced or commanded by god

I think you are posting to the wrong person. I agree "the laws of the time were all either influenced or commanded by god ". Haven't you read anything that I have wrote?

Your question would have been better had you asked .

"would you EXUCUTE me as per your god's commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "

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@Theweakeredge

According to Christianity, Jesus is God, so He would be an authority on God's preferred pronouns. And even if you take the position that He was just a prophet, that would still put Him in a position to know God's preferred pronouns.

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#59

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11.12.2020 03:55PM

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@Stephen

My point is that the god of the bible has no moral authority, therefore anything they commanded would be similar to a mob boss commanding their goons, to say: murder

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