I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?

Author: Theweakeredge

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@Mopac
If someone is confused to the point of non repentance, how else would you define it? Not attempting to play semantics with the word, just curious. 

Also not trying to demonize you. I do think orthodoxy can be borderline cult like , but I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing because I respect the level of devoutness. 

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@Mopac
@Elminster
All of this is ignoring the point, regardless if I choose to or not (which it isn't I've already presented the evidence), that it views being homosexual as something which is wrong in the first place. That's the major paradigm that I fight against. Being homosexual isn't wrong or evil. That's what I majorly object to.
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@Elminster
Of course, real Christianity will look alien to the secularized Christian of the west. 

The modern secular and anti-christ worldview is the direct result of the west's apostasy from orthodoxy, and an over emphasis on reason and romanticism. 

We wouldn't ever say that someone is beyond repenting, least of all a 16 year old. 

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@Mopac
I'm open to changing my mind, ya know, just... present valid evidence. I mean... I would never worship that god, but I would believe if someone could preset valid evidence.
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@Theweakeredge
You are also a moral subjectionist, so your belief on the matter naturally would be arbitrary.

But even if on the surface it seems harmless, it is not in fact harmless. The culture surrounding this lifestyle choice certainly isn't harmless.

But if you don't want to believe that, there is little evidence I could show younthat would convince you otherwise. Besides that, we don't understand morality the same way. From our viewpoint, morality in everyway has to do with our relationship with God. 



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@Mopac
Do you believe certain people are ever beyond repentance?
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@Theweakeredge
If you don't know what it is you require evidence for, how could you even recognize evidence?


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@Elminster
The dead cannot repent.
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@Theweakeredge
"Jesus went unto the mount of Olives.

And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life."








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@Mopac
I don;t believe anyone has objective morality, because no one can justify the standard
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@Mopac
I know you try to define god into existence, doesn't work that way sorry
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@Theweakeredge
I don't try to define God into existence. That is what we have always recognized as God.
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@Theweakeredge
Truth justifies the standard.
Our morality in every way has to do with the relationship one has with The Truth. There is a Way.

But that is a personal relationship. It has nothing to do with politics.


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@Mopac
First of all, nothing I said was in reference to politics, and if it's how a church has defined it, its up to them to demonstrate the assumptions of the definitions. 
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@Theweakeredge
It is an absurd request to demand that we prove what it is we mean by a word.

Rather, it is reasonable to believe what we say we mean by what we say. That way, we can communicate what we believe.
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@Mopac
No, not whenever your definition so drastically differs from the classical definition, I believe that you believe what you say, I don't believe that what you think god means is actually what god means.
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@Theweakeredge
What do you think is the classical definition of god?
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Before the English language, before the word "God" existed, we believed what we believe.

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@Theweakeredge
Father Seraphim Rose, an inspiration to many, a true champion of orthodoxy, and in my view someone who should be glorified as a saint...

Before his conversion engaged in homosexual behavior. He thought he was a homosexual.

He repented of this after becoming orthodox, and went on to write many things that edified not only the church here in America, but even around the world. He was someone who really was in tune with the spirit of this age, and wrote a great deal to inform people of it.

The thread I created here...


The playlist in the OP comes from his writings. 

Mopac
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Some good quotes from father Seraphim Rose....



"Atheism, true 'existential' atheism burning with hatred of a seemingly unjust or unmerciful God, is a spiritual state; it is a real attempt to grapple with the true God.… Nietzsche, in calling himself Antichrist, proved thereby his intense hunger for Christ." 

"Everything in this life passes away — only God remains, only He is worth struggling towards. We have a choice: to follow the way of this world, of the society that surrounds us, and thereby find ourselves outside of God; or to choose the way of life, to choose God Who calls us and for Whom our heart is searching."


"More profoundly, Nihilist "simplification" may be seen in the universal prestige today accorded the lowest order of knowledge, the scientific, as well as the simplistic ideas of men like Marx, Freud, and Darwin, which underlie virtually the whole of contemporary thought and life.

We say "life," for it is important to see that the Nihilist history of our century has not been something imposed from without or above, or at least has not been predominantly this; it has rather presupposed, and drawn its nourishment from, a Nihilist soil that has long been preparing in the hearts of the people. It is precisely from the Nihilism of the commonplace, from the everyday Nihilism revealed in the life and thought and aspiration of the people, that all the terrible events of our century have sprung.
The world-view of Hitler is very instructive in this regard, for in him the most extreme and monstrous Nihilism rested upon the foundation of a quite unexceptional and even typical Realism. He shared the common faith in "science," "progress," and "enlightenment" (though not, of course, in "democracy"), together with a practical materialism that scorned all theology, metaphysics, and any thought or action concerned with any other world than the "here and now," priding himself on the fact that he had "the gift of reducing all problems to their simplest foundations." He had a crude worship of efficiency and utility that freely tolerated "birth control", laughed at the institution of marriage as a mere legalization of a sexual impulse that should be "free", welcomed sterilization of the unfit, despised "unproductive elements" such as monks, saw nothing in the cremation of the dead but a "practical" question and did not even hesitate to put the ashes, or the skin and fat, of the dead to "productive use." He possessed the quasi-anarchist distrust of sacred and venerable institutions, in particular the Church with its "superstitions" and all its "outmoded" laws and ceremonies. He had a naive trust in the "natural mom, the "healthy animal" who scorns the Christian virtues--virginity in particular--that impede the "natural functioning" of the body. He took a simple-minded delight in modern conveniences and machines, and especially in the automobile and the sense of speed and "freedom" it affords.

There is very little of this crude Weltanschauung that is not shared, to some degree, by the multitudes today, especially among the young, who feel themselves "enlightened" and "liberated," very little that is not typically "modern."


"What, more realistically, is this “mutation,” the “new man”? He is the rootless man, discontinuous with a past that Nihilism has destroyed, the raw material of every demagogue’s dream; the “free-thinker” and skeptic, closed only to the truth but “open” to each new intellectual fashion because he himself has no intellectual foundation; the “seeker” after some “new revelation,” ready to believe anything new because true faith has been annihilated in him; the planner and experimenter, worshipping “fact” because he has abandoned truth, seeing the world as a vast laboratory in which he is free to determine what is “possible”; the autonomous man, pretending to the humility of only asking his “rights,” yet full of the pride that expects everything to be given him in a world where nothing is authoritatively forbidden; the man of the moment, without conscience or values and thus at the mercy of the strongest “stimulus”; the “rebel,” hating all restraint and authority because he himself is his own and only god; the “mass man,” this new barbarian, thoroughly “reduced” and “simplified” and capable of only the most elementary ideas, yet scornful of anyone who presumes to point out the higher things or the real complexity of life."

"Now it is quite true to say that curiosity, exactly like its analogue, lust, never ends and is never satisfied; but man was made for something more than this. He was made to rise, above curiosity and lust, to love, and through love to the attainment of truth."

"Four centuries and more of modern thought have been, from one point of view, an experiment in the possibilities of knowledge open to man, assuming that there is no Revealed Truth. The conclusion--which Hume already saw and from which he fled into the comfort of "common sense" and conventional life, and which the multitudes sense today without possessing any such secure refuge--the conclusion of this experiment is an absolute negation: if there is no Revealed Truth, there is no truth at all; the search for truth outside of Revelation has come to a dead end. The scientist admits this by restricting himself to the narrowest of specialties, content if he sees a certain coherence in a limited aggregate of facts, without troubling himself over the existence of any truth, large or small; the multitudes demonstrate it by looking to the scientist, not for truth, but for the technological applications of a knowledge which has no more than a practical value, and by looking to other, irrational sources for the ultimate values men once expected to find in truth. The despotism of science over practical life is contemporaneous with the advent of a whole series of pseudo-religious "revelations"; the two are correlative symptoms of the same malady: the abandonment of truth."

Theweakeredge
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@Mopac
I think this quote perfectly summates the definition of god as used throughout history:


God: (1) A magical anthropomorphic immortal, central to most religions, typically a primarily spiritual being who’s continued existence may be independent of whichever physical form(s) it may choose.  (2) The name by which the sole or dominant divinity is known by virtually major religions: Hindu, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Sikh, and even some Buddhists where applicable.
Aron Ra
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@Theweakeredge
We would dispute God being a "A magical anthropomorphic immortal"

For God is The Truth. 

We would freely admit that The Truth became incarnate, even in the form of a man, Christ Jesus. However, we would deny this incarnation as being "magical", as magic by nature is illusion. The healing that comes from God is The Truth overcoming delusion, not the embrace of delusion.

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@Theweakeredge
We see The Truth as The Way to abide in. Abiding in The Way, a man who is made in the image of God becomes the likeness of God.

The God being "The Truth". A Christian is supposed to be a living icon of The Truth.

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@Theweakeredge
More quotes from father Seraphim Rose, who before his conversion believed he was homosexual, but after his conversion repented.

"Orthodoxy is life. If we don’t live Orthodoxy, we simply are not Orthodox, no matter what formal beliefs we might hold."


“Never has there been such an age of false teachers as this pitiful twentieth century, so rich in material gadgets and so poor in mind and soul. Every conceivable opinion, even the most absurd, even those hitherto rejected by the universal consent of all civilized peoples — now has its platform and its own ‘teacher.’ A few of these teachers come with demonstration or promise of ‘spiritual power’ and false miracles, as do some occultists and ‘charismatics’; but most of the contemporary teachers offer no more than a weak concoction of undigested ideas which they receive ‘out of the air,’ as it were, or from some modern self-appointed ‘wise man’ (Or woman) who knows more than all the ancients merely by living in our ‘enlightened’ modern times. As a result, philosophy has a thousand schools, and ‘Christianity’ a thousand sects. Where is the truth to be found in all this, if indeed it is to found at all in our most misguided times?
In only one place is there to be found the fount of true teaching, coming from God Himself, not diminished over the centuries but ever fresh, being one and the same in all those who truly teach it, leading those who follow it to eternal salvation. This place is the Orthodox Church of Christ, the fount is the grace of the All-Holy Spirit, and the true teachers of the Divine doctrine that issues from this fount are the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Church.”

“Let not us, who would be Christians, expect anything else from it than to be crucified. For to be Christian is to be crucified, in this time and in any time since Christ came for the first time. His life is the example — and warning — to us all. We must be crucified personally, mystically; for through crucifixion is the only path to resurrection. If we would rise with Christ, we must first be humbled with Him — even to the ultimate humiliation, being devoured and spit forth by the uncomprehending world. And we must be crucified outwardly, in the eyes of the world; for Christ’s Kingdom is not of this world, and the world cannot bear it, even a single representative of it, even for a single moment. The world can only accept Antichrist, now or at any time. No wonder then, that it is hard to be a Christian — it is not hard, it is impossible. No one can knowingly accept a way of life which, the more truly it is lived, lead the more surely to one’s own destruction. And that is why we constantly rebel, try to make life easier, try to be half-Christian, try to make the best of both worlds We must ultimately choose — our felicity lies in one world or the other, not in both. God give us the strength to pursue the path to crucifixion; there is no other way to be Christian.”

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@Tradesecret
I know what it is like, to feel separated, from God. Yeshua/Jesus, is the Reason, I'm alive.
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@Theweakeredge
God is a He, Yeshua/Jesus, the Living God.
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@YeshuaBought
Hmm.... Prove it
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@Mopac
Thats actually wrong, that is one of the definitions of magic, the one being used to describe a god here is as follows: "The power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces." As defined by Lexico, not to mention the bible describes god as walking around even in places much before Jesus, or calling for Adam and Eve, or a multitude of something
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@YeshuaBought
Do you? I'd argue you're separated even now.
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@Mopac
But you're essentially saying:

God is true because god is true. That's begging the question