The atheist realty sucks

Author: Utanity
chick
black
simon
cowell

Posts

Total: 140
#31
fauxlaw
fauxlaw's avatar
Debates: 77
Posts: 3,565
4
7
10
fauxlaw's avatar
fauxlaw
4
7
10
-->
@zedvictor4
I'm actually a horrible speller; interesting given my other profession, writing, but, that's why I keep the OED near me at all times. However, there are flaws with even that device. Just as dictionaries are poor teachers of culture, they also tend to be poor providers of spelling. In order to find the spelling of a word, you must know how to spell it.
#32
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
I agree, religion is the number 1 builder of healthy and lively communities
Topic's author
#33
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@fauxlaw
I'll admit to being a bit cynical when it comes to academia, but I'm intrigued by your ability to draw God into even a discussion that might not be the first thing one thinks relevant to the discussion. I'll agree that God is in and about everything that exists/ I revere Him as our literal Father, that we are His literal children, and that He represents the ideal we should all try to achieve. If I don't mention it later, have a merry Christmas!
I am thanking your consideration but I only was meaning about different dimensions and some of the peoples they cant handling it and I wont mention the name of theweakeredge but now his jockeys they are in the twist because he is making up the stories to covering up the stories what he made. Merry Christmas.
#34
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Dr.Franklin
A wild, sweeping and unsubstantiated interjection Doc.....It's what you're good at.

But it's good to see that you think that Iran is a lively and healthy community....That's very lively and healthy of you.
#35
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@zedvictor4
iran is more lively than America, we have child drag queen story time in atheist america
Topic's author
#36
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
iran is more lively than America
What is being so lively about shoving the gays off the roofs and making the womens walking behind you all the time.
#37
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Utanity
Never said that
Topic's author
#38
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
Never said that
I said that because their muslims over their and the mens they drive on the streets in the hilux and fire their ak47 all over the place and when a woman she gets horne with another man then they berry her up to the head then they throw the stonings at her. That is being lively maybe but its being lively in the bad way.
#39
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Utanity
never Said anything remotely to that
Topic's author
#40
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
never Said anything remotely to that
Your english is not to good but I am thinking that what your saying is what you didnt said that which is what I said rite. So I said it anyway because that what those peoples are being maid to do and if they dont they get their heads loped off in the town skwhere.
#41
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Dr.Franklin
You have child drag queen story time in free thinking America.

Which has got to be better that religiously oppressed America.

And how can you be certain that all drag queens are atheists?....Isn't that just another theist assumption?
#42
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@zedvictor4
get rid of drag queens

#43
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@zedvictor4
all I said was that Iran is more lively than USA, that is a fact, modern us culture is a degenerate depressing mess
Topic's author
#44
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
all I said was that Iran is more lively than USA
And all I said was that in Iran the mens berry the womens and stone them and then all you can said was that you never said it. Peoples that live in the glass houses they shouldnt throwing stones at the others eh?
#45
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
Factually you are incorrect. The only thing an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in god(s). I do not care what you think on the topic or of people you happened to meet, I don't care. I have met those people, but that doesn't matter, because the only thing that is necessarily true of an atheist is that they do not believe in god. It doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, because that's not my belief, all that it means is that other people can believe in dumb shit. I am really tired of having to correct people on this, NO, Materialism and Atheism are not the same things, no, they aren't even synonymous.

If an atheist doesn't believe that God exists, then the alternative to that is materialism. You say you don't care what I think but that is what you believe. Not sure why you are angry about that. To believe in God is not "dumb shit", but to say that it is an example of what you're denying. Theism is just as rational as materialism and or atheism, you're world view is not anymore rational. Theism as a proposition has just as much weight as materialism, seeing as there are basically only two options. We could argue which one of the two options are more logical.


#46
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
No, because you do not have to neccedarily believe in a god to believe in other dimensions. It is perfectly possible that people believe this without any justification, but there are also some that find proof of the supernatural and simply say none of the evidence is attributable to god, I don't find the argument compelling, but you are incorrect. Materialism is not that popular of a mentality outside of scientific discourse and my particular brand of thinking (as in the generalities not specifically me). You are the one being closed minded if you are not open to the obvious evidence before you. 

The literal definition of atheism is only about a belief in a god. Whether you think you have to believe in a god to get to other realms doesn't matter, not because your take doesn't matter in general, but because we are discussing other people's beliefs. Which aren't always cogent, but on top of that, you are also flatly wrong. You are simply repeating yourself. 
#47
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
I feel like I was being to crass. I apologize for any harsh language or such, I am really just tired of talking on this specific subject. Not an excuse for improper regards however. 
#48
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Utanity
why does America have child drag qeunns
Topic's author
#49
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
why does America have child drag qeunns
Maybe because their more civilised their and they like the fun colourful neat things to do but at leest they dont push them off the roofs and chop their heads off and make them walk behind the mens.
#50
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
First of all, I know how atheism is defined, I guess I was being less vague about it. I see only two options here as a world view. Either God created the universe or God didn't. So that equals (at least in my mind) creationism (God did) or materialism (God didn't). If an atheist is that who does not believe in the existence of God or gods, then in my assumption they would fall into the other category (materialism). If there is a third option please open my eyes to it.

No, because you do not have to neccedarily believe in a god to believe in other dimensions.

As a rule of thumb, "other dimensions" are those usually depicted within the spiritual spectrum. The spiritual spectrum usually falls within the category of Theism, you know...what an atheist is defined as having a "lack" of belief in. So I guess I'm adding to the definition, not to be stupid but rather to follow the logic. If you believe an atheist CAN believe in other dimensions I won't argue that, fine. IMO it seems nonsensical. But whether they believe in other dimensions doesn't change the fact they don't believe in God, and if they don't believe in God then that is to believe that natural causes formed our universe....so somehow under a materialists/naturalists worldview other dimensions now exist. So not only do we have the natural physical world, but alternative worlds that somehow began to exist (without God).

It is perfectly possible that people believe this without any justification, but there are also some that find proof of the supernatural and simply say none of the evidence is attributable to god, I don't find the argument compelling, but you are incorrect. Materialism is not that popular of a mentality outside of scientific discourse and my particular brand of thinking (as in the generalities not specifically me). You are the one being closed minded if you are not open to the obvious evidence before you.

But atheists are those who normally take what is defined by science, and attribute it (interpret it) to processes that involve no Creator. This is not my assumption, but the assumption that atheists always propose. Again, I'm not restricting my idea of an atheist to merely the definition here but how atheists interpret the world. So what category would you place atheists in if there were only two categories? 1. God created it and...2. God did not create it? if God did not create the universe how would you then define that presumption?

The literal definition of atheism is only about a belief in a god.

Right, and there are only two options unless I'm missing a third one. Creationism or materialism....God or no God. 

Whether you think you have to believe in a god to get to other realms doesn't matter, not because your take doesn't matter in general, but because we are discussing other people's beliefs. Which aren't always cogent, but on top of that, you are also flatly wrong. You are simply repeating yourself.

Sure. But I'm not arguing over merely how atheism is defined and what that definition "allows" for. I'm narrowing the definition to what follows in logic. If you want to claim that other dimensions, spirits and ghosts fall within the category of atheism fine, but I want to know how an atheist accounts for those other dimensions, spirits and what world view follows. If God didn't create them, and spirits now exist without God, and these are things that have been proposed by religious sources then what other world view does this fall under if not theism or materialism?

#51
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
The logic you think it follows does not matter, as I have said over and over. No. IF you think that god does not exist, and you also think that there is a spiritual realm, all it means is that they do not know the exact cause, just that there isn't evidence for a god. You are committing a fallacy of false dichotomy. People could believe in other means of there being a spiritual realm, such as one having the same attributes as god in the sense that is has always been there and never needed a creator, you are limiting it out of your own view of creationism, and you are therefore being closeminded. Kind  of ironic.

#52
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
I feel like I was being to crass. I apologize for any harsh language or such, I am really just tired of talking on this specific subject. Not an excuse for improper regards however. 

Apology accepted. 
How many times have you had to address this subject? I've done it for 15 years lol. I'm the one who should be getting sick of it!

#53
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
The logic you think it follows does not matter, as I have said over and over. No. IF you think that god does not exist, and you also think that there is a spiritual realm, all it means is that they do not know the exact cause, just that there isn't evidence for a god. You are committing a fallacy of false dichotomy. People could believe in other means of there being a spiritual realm, such as one having the same attributes as god in the sense that is has always been there and never needed a creator, you are limiting it out of your own view of creationism, and you are therefore being closeminded. Kind  of ironic.


If I'm being close minded, please tell me what that other option is. What do you label it? creationism...materialism...OR....?

#54
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
I just explained it... did you not read it? There wouldn't be a name for it besides spiritualism. Which is just the view that a spiritual realm exists without a god. That's all. You don't need to know what created it to believe in it. And atheists can who follow it can simply say that there is evidence for a supernatural but not for a god, inserting god without connecting evidence is a god of the gaps fallacy (hence why i say that people would need to prove both that a god exists and a supernatural they are separate claims, you not being able to comprehend it is another fallacy)
#55
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 11,386
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Dr.Franklin
I'm not sure what "lively" represents for you.... Probably a personal expectation, perhaps shared with group of similarly conditioned people.....But out there, are millions of others who don't quite share the same worldview.....Some peoples degenerate is now a lot of peoples normal....Perhaps you are getting old... You certainly sound like my dad.
#56
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@zedvictor4
american culture is degraded
#57
Dr.Franklin
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 10,584
4
7
11
Dr.Franklin's avatar
Dr.Franklin
4
7
11
-->
@Utanity
nope, child draw queen story time is not a representation of being civilized

And it is not fun or colorful, it’s disgusting and depraved
#58
EtrnlVw
EtrnlVw's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 2,869
3
3
5
EtrnlVw's avatar
EtrnlVw
3
3
5
-->
@Theweakeredge
I just explained it... did you not read it? There wouldn't be a name for it besides spiritualism. Which is just the view that a spiritual realm exists without a god. That's all. You don't need to know what created it to believe in it. And atheists can who follow it can simply say that there is evidence for a supernatural but not for a god, inserting god without connecting evidence is a god of the gaps fallacy (hence why i say that people would need to prove both that a god exists and a supernatural they are separate claims, you not being able to comprehend it is another fallacy)

Can we get to the bottom of this before you start assuming fallacies? many times when someone is claiming a fallacy it's because maybe they're not seeing the rationale, missing the argument. I get what you're saying but somehow I don't think you're getting what I'm saying. I'm no longer arguing that an atheist cannot believe in what we've been talking about that's no longer the issue. The issue I'm bringing up is the foundation (worldview/conception) of those beliefs, and that if you say God did not create the universe then that means everything that began to exist exists without the need for God, it began by natural means and there is a term for that. If you believe that God created the universe then we call that creationism, the only other alternative to creationism is naturalism/materialism, meaning that the universe began to exist without God through natural means. Philosophically I'm unaware of any third premise, which is probably because there's only two choices, this is simple logic. 
Now before you go and repeat yourself again, would you agree that God either created the universe or God did not create the universe?
I don't care personally if there's an atheist out there who believes in spirits and alternate dimensions, it's nonsensical but it's not the point I'm making. It's much like believing that a football belongs on the basketball court lol....sure we "could" play basketball with a football but it would be somewhat stupid right? because we're using the wrong medium to be on that court.
Perhaps don't be so stubborn because you don't want to be wrong and just realize the simplicity of what I'm getting at. You don't want the atheist to carry the label materialism I get that, why you're adamant about that is somewhat weird. Why don't you create a pole and ask atheists on this site how they understand how the universe began and then we can evaluate their clams? because at this point the conversation is getting silly, so maybe it's better if we just see what they say themselves.
If there is an atheist that pops up and says they believe in other dimensions, spirits and ghosts I'll put the same questions to them. Only in an attempt to show which category their worldview falls under.
I'm not being close-minded here, not at all I'm just using commonsense and you've given me no answer or reason to believe any other conclusion. Saying "they don't need to know what created it to believe it" is avoiding the issue...because there's only two options. And an atheist only falls in one of those two options whether it's apart of the definition or not.

Materialism-
is a form of philosophical monism that holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental states and consciousness, are results of material interactions. According to philosophical materialism, mind and consciousness are by-products or epiphenomena of material processes (such as the biochemistry of the human brain and nervous system), without which they cannot exist.

Creationism-
is the religious belief that nature, and aspects such as the universe, Earth, life, and humans, originated with supernatural acts of divine creation.

#59
Theweakeredge
Theweakeredge's avatar
Debates: 33
Posts: 3,457
4
7
10
Theweakeredge's avatar
Theweakeredge
4
7
10
-->
@EtrnlVw
No it is you who is missing the point here: You do not need a god to have a immaterial realm. 

You are assuming that the only way to get there is a god

The fact is - if there was one (as supernatural realm) - there would need to be evidence of what created it

There is no assuming fallacies here you are committing logical fallacies in your reasoning, saying, "You don't understand my argument" isn't a valid criticism of logical fallacies. Specifically point out why a supernatural realm couldn't have the same qualities of an god that has had no creator. Why can't this realm have been infinite? The core problem is that you, have the presumption that only god could do this, when this is not evidenced by any philosophic reasoning. 
Topic's author
#60
Utanity
Utanity's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 375
0
2
2
Utanity's avatar
Utanity
0
2
2
-->
@Dr.Franklin
nope, child draw queen story time is not a representation of being civilized

And it is not fun or colorful, it’s disgusting and depraved
I see what is going on in your mind and thats not much because in the civilised world the peoples they got over that sort of stuff a long times ago. If you feel the way that you are its because your still bigoted and against different peoples and you should change your bad ways.