Anime Waifus Mafia DP3

Author: Vader

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warren42
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@Danielle
I don't know how I feel about warren lol. I don't scum read people for delayed presence in game, but if it's to the point of clarifying they are online and 30 mins going by where they are tagged asking for claims multiple times and they still don't post, that's a little sus. 
If this affects your read of me at all I'm at work and work is customer service for an online retailer. Between Christmas, COVID, and the political issues plaguing USPS I'm sure you can imagine I'm getting a ton of calls about how I ruined Christmas for a family. Super fun, love that I spent four years in school to get yelled at by a middle aged woman about how her son won't have his Patagonia vest under the tree in time. Shoutout COVID for this job market!
warren42
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That is to say I can't check the game every 30 seconds at work unfortunately
whiteflame
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@warren42
I'm Uraraka from My Hero Academia and I only care for money so I'm one dimensional as a character and vanilla
Ugh, this is a frustrating claim, largely because it's so negative to Uraraka, which I think is something the mod would do and not likely for a scum player. That being said, could easily be a fake claim given to him by the mod, but I can't read anything behaviorally aside from the long wait time. Pretty frustrating to have him wait so long to post after checking in, but I can't say it's a scum tell.

warren42
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@whiteflame
See above for my explanation of the wait time. I haven't been super active, for what it's worth I hopped on before the deadline last DP but it had ended in majority. I probably would've also voted for That1, with drafter as another consideration
drafterman
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Guys. This is all a farce. The DP ended last month

With 8 players, it takes 5 to lynch
You have until 11/19/20 at 11:30CST

whiteflame
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@drafterman
Guys. This is all a farce. The DP ended last month

With 8 players, it takes 5 to lynch
You have until 11/19/20 at 11:30CST
Supa's playing some 3D chess here.
drafterman
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Are we NLing or going for a Lynch?
Danielle
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@drafterman
@Barney
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@warren42
If we decide to NL, it should be because the majority of us don't have a strong scum read to balance the odds of a successful lynch. We still have ~23 hours left in the day phase. Every single person should post their reads. Otherwise, let's say we NL and go into next DP -  we have no way of sussing out the best lynch candidate. For instance we know nothing about warren's thoughts on the game. You haven't given your reads either @drafter, so how am I supposed to have any idea how to read you? I think WaterPhoenix is the only one who gave his full reads so far. What are yours? We need to hear from warren and Ragnar as well. What about Pie and whiteflame? 
drafterman
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@Danielle
If you can't provide your reads on me because I haven't provided my reads on who, how can you expect me to provide my reads on you when you haven't provided your reads on me?
drafterman
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my reads on you*
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Town:
me
whiteflame

Null
MisterChris
warren42

Possible TP
Pie
Danielle

Scum
Ragnar
WaterPhoenix
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@Danielle
I did give some idea of my thoughts earlier, though given that the NL is on the table, the new info from warren, and the discussion on Ragnar, I'll throw in my thoughts.

I don't have enough information on warren to make a solid call, but I read him as slight town based on his justification. It's not so much that I agree with it (honestly, it's a pretty weak reason to give Uraraka a vanilla role), but that's part of what's leaning me this way. I find it difficult to believe that scum would engineer this kind of justification to slip under the radar, especially with a vanilla role. I don't have enough behavioral info to say anything, so this is a pretty weak read.

So, the main question becomes whether I'm willing to lynch either Draft or Ragnar based on the information I have right now. I'd like to see some direct responses to the points we've been making over the last few posts about Ragnar's choice of target, which still doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It smacks of weak reasoning, and makes me think he was actively seeking someone who likely would not have a role to motivate. However, if he is scum, I don't know why he would choose not to pretend that he'd targeted his partner, and have them validate the claim. It would have also made more sense to target Speed and claim that he wanted to get another round of reads, but was stopped by the NK. Both would have given him better cover than this, though I think I would have been suspicious of the claim regardless. To me, his decision doesn't really make sense regardless of the side he's on, which may just be a function of his late work hours. In general, though, I think the behavior makes less sense as town than it does as mafia, especially as there were other more town-confirmed players with either claimed or suggested power roles to choose.

Long story short, I would be willing to lynch Ragnar at this stage on the basis of the given information. I don't think the NL is the better choice.
drafterman
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What's the vote count?
whiteflame
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Basic reads on others:

Slight Town:
WP (don't think it makes sense that he revealed himself as the redirector if he has scum partners)
Danielle (lots of uncertainty on her, can't say what she's up to, but her reads put her in either town or TP, and I'm leaning towards the former)

MisterChris (tracking in NP1 indicates that he's correct about his role as Speed still used his Dreamer that phase, indicating an investigator role)

Null
warren42 (reasons given above)

Possible TP
Pie (tracking in NP2 showed no movement, so he's not the mafia NK unless he's a ninja or the Serial Killer, but the role makes me think TP - decent chance of being scum)
Draft (reasons given earlier this phase - don't think he's scum, but his behavior leaves me thinking TP)

Scum
Ragnar (reasons given above)
drafterman
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Last count by Supa:

Vote Count
Ragnar [1/5] WaterPhoenix
Chris [1/5] iLikePie5
warren42 [1/5] Ragnar
VTL Ragnar
Danielle
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@drafterman
If you can't provide your reads on me because I haven't provided my reads on who, how can you expect me to provide my reads on you when you haven't provided your reads on me?

I've given reads on some people and made other observations that you can analyze. You haven't contributed anything to this game except to say "I'm not getting lynched" and refuse to claim last DP, and this DP suggest we vote No Lynch before everyone had even claimed or given their reads. Considering you were on the mislynch wagon yesterday, I think it's safe to say that 100% of your contribution to this game has been negative utility to null at best. We have no way to read you. I was curious what your thoughts are on each player to see if we can figure out a preferable lynch target via POE. 
Danielle
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My biggest scum read is Ragnar for aforementioned reasons. My second biggest is WaterPhoenix and my third is MisterChris. 

My read on WP is due to a few things: 1) Last DP that1user looked incredibly sus from all the lies and flip flopping. WP took a strong position that she was town, but I don't think any uninformed player would have been that sure. 2) WP's entire analysis this DP is predicated on who voted for that1user. While we def have to consider the mislynch wagon, to focus solely on that is lazy and an easy way to cherry pick someone to mislynch again because we know that some of the people on that wagon - or possibly even everyone on the wagon - had to be town. 3) WP thinks Ragnar and whiteflame are scum but why not me and drafter? We also voted for that1user. If WP believes our role claims + behavior are more townie over whiteflame and Ragnars, why didn't he make a case against them until I asked him for his reads? It wasn't until I made a long post explaining why I sussed Ragnar that WP put him in his scum pile. Kinda seems like buddying me. And 4) the Redirector claim + usage is a little hard to get behind. It's a scummy role and kinda scummy that he used it. 


Danielle
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The reason I wanted warren's claim is because I wanted to know if he was a Jailkeeper, and if not, I would sus MisterChris a bit. On NP1 I was role blocked and on NP2 I was not. That means the mafia either targeted someone else who didn't have a role and therefore wasn't told they were role blocked (the way Ragnar allegedly targeted drafter and drafter wasn't told), OR, I believe the mafia had a 1-shot role blocking ability which makes sense with mafia JOAT. 

In MC's favor, his other two roles are allegedly Oracle and Bulletproof. The fact that we have no cop makes it more likely there is an Oracle role in the game, especially a 1-shot Oracle considering Speed's Dreamer role was also 1-shot. A Bulletproof also makes sense when there's a chance for extra NKs (the mafia kill + Pie) and NO claimed Doctor or Jailkeeper. I find it hard to believe Supa wouldn't give town any investigative abilities or protection abilities which makes MC's claim a bit more believable. However that doesn't explain there being no role block last night unless mafia targeted someone without a role. 

In that case, if the mafia did target someone without a role by accident I feel like it could have been Ragnar targeting drafterman. Again Ragnar claimed Motivator AFTER Drafter had claimed Beloved Princess, so if Ragnar role blocked drafterman not knowing his role (I guess drafter's refusal to claim hinted he had a role?) and then found out drafter wasn't told he was role blocked, the Motivator was a good fake claim because he knew drafter wouldn't get any messages. 

This goes back to Ragnar being my #1 lynch preference, however I am open to considering these and other candidates. I want to hear from everyone before vtl. 



Danielle
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Thinking more about it, MC has to be town. There's no way the town has no protective abilities when we have a known vig or serial killer who could kill along with the mafia. A 1-shot BP also makes sense because it allows the town to test a vig claim had Pie claimed before being able to use/prove his role.  Hmm.  It may be warren instead of MisterChris. 
Vader
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Guys the DP ends 12/19/20 cmon I thought DART was an intellectual site
Vader
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Vote Count
Ragnar [2/5] WaterPhoenix, drafterman
Chris [1/5] iLikePie5
warren42 [1/5] Ragnar

whiteflame
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@Vader
I thought DART was an intellectual site
What huh?

whiteflame
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@Danielle
Other thing to keep in mind is that we know MisterChris visited Speed in NP1. I don't think it's possible that he could both have roleblocked you and used an entirely separate role on Speed without it being the NK, though I could be wrong.
Danielle
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@whiteflame
That's true. I'm pretty confident MC is town now anyway  because we know there is an extra killing role (Pie). Whether Pie is vig, serial killer or maf with an extra killing ability, we know he has the ability to shoot and nobody claimed Doc or Jailkeeper so a Bulletproof claim makes sense. I think I'm just wary about MC's sudden participation in Mafia although he's been MIA again this day phase so maybe I'm reading into it.

If you're telling the truth about him visiting Speed NP1, then we know MC is probs town because nothing negative happened to Speed. He didn't die, he wasn't role blocked (he used his ability on you) and he wasn't framed or anything because there is no Cop. So at this point MC is probably my #1 town read assuming you are also town and telling the truth about him visiting Speed. Obviously you could be lying, but coupled with Speed's flip + game mechanics I think you are both probs town. 

Re: WaterPhoenix claiming Redirector, I'll refer you to my response to Speed about that. It makes sense for mafia to claim a role they can prove. Even if it's a potentially scummy role, it leads to their credibility. For instance Pie could be serial killer but his vig claim is believable enough because he's proven he can shoot. The Redirector claim alone didn't sell me on him being scum but coupled with other things I mentioned he's in my scum pile. 

Re: warren, to confirm you only read him town because of his role justification? 
WaterPhoenix
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i'd much rather lynch ragnar than vtnl
Barney
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@Danielle
To be honest I'm not feeling okay lol
I feel like a complete jerk. I forgot about your injury...


What I don't understand is why you'd town read drafter based on refusing to claim
I did not actually town read him. I rolled the dice. I do however town read him now, since Supa is the only person who would have known how Supa would modify the roles. If Drafter had a scum role, he wouldn't have known to claim ignorance.


What are your reads? 
I've got three pages to catch up on, and a medical appointment (nothing bad) this afternoon I need to get ready for.

I of course town read myself. I don't think scum would be this sloppy, and would have had one or two more people (probably people with time during the week) to fact check before making an important play.

I townread whiteflame, due to Speed vouching for him. While scum could also have tracker, I've seen them called "scouts" instead when scum, so that gives favorable odds that "tracker" is town aligned.

I townread Drafter, [see my second paragraph above].

I townroad Ilikepie, as the vigilante fits with what we've seen regarding the extra kill. Your claim of third party, adds further credibility to it, as I seriously doubt there would be two third party killers.

I townread Water. His story aligns with what we know, but Mafia would have no reason to lie about that story. On the other hand, with me as a motivator, that would potentially give mafia way too much power as they could redirect my action to one of them if they have that role.

Warren42... I see that he's posted, but three pages, I'll get caught up later.

Danielle and Chris are in my scum pile. The apparently independent targeting of me for my work schedule, is suspect (even more so with catching MisterChris lying about what he wrote). And of course you caring if town wins, does not align to your win conditions (I'd need to read DP1 to see if you tried to trick anyone into targeting you at night... it's more than I care to do); even by outing yourself as a third party siren you are effectively claiming to be conceding the game. Which yes, if you're scum instead of third party, it calls Pie's towniness into question, as he could then still be a third party, who is merely waiving kills to blend in.
whiteflame
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@Danielle
Re: WP, I'm open to changing my mind on him, though at the moment, I don't see him as scummy. He apparently didn't act during the last NP (someone would almost certainly have said something about it at this point if he was lying), which may simply be him trying to show fake contrition, but I'm not sure. I do agree that, at least behaviorally, he's been a bit off, especially with his scum reads as you mentioned a few posts back.

Re: warren, it's only a very slight town read at this stage. I have so little information on him that the only thing I can go off of at this stage is his role claim, and the justification just comes off as something that a jaded fan would say. Makes me think that a fake claim doesn't really fit for him, if only because I think it's more likely that Supa wrote it than that a scum team designed a justification that puts down their own character.
Barney
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@warren42
I'm Uraraka from My Hero Academia and I only care for money so I'm one dimensional as a character and vanilla
I watch that show. That really does not align with the character. Her only particular care for money, is to support her parents, not just being some gold digger. I doubt Supa would read her anywhere near how you've described. I would VTL, but with my vote already on you, it'll just stay there.
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@drafterman
Guys. This is all a farce. The DP ended last month

With 8 players, it takes 5 to lynch
You have until 11/19/20 at 11:30CST
HOLY SHITBALLS!
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@whiteflame
 I think it's more likely that Supa wrote it than that a scum team designed a justification that puts down their own character.
We have indeed had some flawed justifications. That said, Supa seems to be a fan of each Waifus, such that when I mistakingly said one was not hot as the others, he jokingly threatened to mod kill me. How likely do you think he is to include one in the game just to insult her and outright call her one dimensional? Even if he actually dislikes her, why would he not pick a Waifus he does like instead?

Doing a Google search, here's the description that pops up for her:
Ochaco, also known as Uravity, is a student in Class 1-A at U.A. High School, training to become a Pro Hero. She is one of the protagonists of My Hero Academia. ... Ochaco has been described by other students as "the most laidback girl" among her class, being very bubbly and kind of an airhead at times.
So it seems the fan community generally doesn't call her one dimensional and greedy. Plus I would really expect Supa to go for Mina Ashido if selecting one from that show.